EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I was thinking on how I handle my dogs and want to start a thread to see how others go about their training I am no expert and don't consider myself a trainer hopefully I will learn something here. I don't mess with my pups much in the beginning pet them now and then try to let them run as much as possible. When they get about 6 months old I put them on a chain they bounce around like a fish on a yoyo for a while but after a week or two they lead pretty good. At around 7 months I start hauling them on the Ranger when ever I can. On the first few hunts I like to turn them in when the big dogs bay back before the crap laws passed in AR I kept and old sow in an acre pen to show them their first hog but cant do that anymore so they learn to bay in the woods. After they start baying good in the woods I will put them down with the big dogs when I find good fresh sign if the pup comes back to me I don't let it hand around if I cant get it to go back and hunt I load it up and this I think is important most of the time they don't want back in that box. If the big dogs strike once again I will turn the pup out. I try not to road hunt pups much I want to put them on hogs as best I can until they understand when they get out of the box its to find a hog I have seen guys let there dogs road hunt all day and hardly ever pick them up when they hang around or follow the ATV and they don't seem to work out. My dogs always hunt out the best on the firsts cast after 3 or 4 cast they usually make about 300-500 loop if they don't find anything they will come back I have learned if I think there is a hog in the area sit tight and they will go back out and they will go deeper the longer I sit the deeper they get now the pups may come back and want to hang out if so once again I load them up and if the big dogs bay turn them out. After the pups around a year and a half I kind of got a good idea what I have and honestly I dont like to keep trying to polish a turd I will normally hang onto a questionable dog until it 2 as long as its trying I have been trying to breed my own the last 5 or 6 years and one thing I do want is dogs that start early and move away from the late bloomers .

Mr.Dunn, Your description of how you handle your dogs sounds like you are doing a good job of exposing a young dog to the right way to be a free casting find/bay dog. I particularly appreciate your patient approach to not letting them just hang around and do nothing. I try to wait for them to be mentally and physically ready to handle getting cut or thrown out of a race before I put them in the woods. I also like to start them with just one older dog I can trust and know very well. I make a concerted effort to keep their first few hunts short and pretty much drop them into hogs. From that point, I watch how they react and go from there. The hardest part for me is leaving them at home when they need to be hunted but are not ready for the circumstances a hunt might present them with. I have learned that being patient and letting them grow up and learn typically yields the best results for me.


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I agree with both of  you...

My brother has a young dog that bays good but he isn't hunting like he should I have his sister and she is turning out real good. My brother like me will load him up but he still isn't hunting out he will make a small loop and come back hang out which burns my brother up we have tried getting on him to move out but that just makes him crawl under the buggy lol. We have toyed with the idea of casting him and bumping him with the shock collar to get him away from the buggy but were not sure if that will cause more harm than good but if he keeps it up he may end up as fertilizer dogs been hunted a good bit and at a year and a half old was showing good potential but the last few hunts hes been going backwards. I have seen dominant dogs that were aggressive make a young dog go back to the buggy for protection but this isn't the case I haven't found a good remedy for this yet hes 2 1/2 now not all dogs make it but like I said he was showing potential. I have a buddy he got a dog off a dude that will knock you down when he turns him out and he said the guy he got him from trained him that way with an e collar said he would lite him up to get him gone and he does get gone . 

I think the shock collar may do more harm than good in that situation... he may get gone, but not gone hunting. The dog may also be going through a lull... I've seen a lot of young ones go through spells like that for a while and then turn back on. It's just how much time and patience the owner has haha.

Patience and understanding are virtues most don't have. Mike I agree on the shock collar got to be careful. Just because a dog is far out don't mean it's hunting lot of times it has learned just to stay away from the handler. One thing I do that most don't is handle and spend as much time that I can with a pup. It might shorten there range but you end up know the dog better


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Guys I am with you but as a last option it might be worth trying the sucker sure wont find one at the atv my brothers a little more patient than me hes been packing him around hope its just from laying up over deer season. I was wondering about the e-collar thing it sounds a little iffy .

i might be considered  fairly lazy . but but i just feed'em until they get old enough to haul , try 'em out several times and then i cull from there .

Does he go to the other dogs when they strike or bay? You probably have some good lead strike dogs that normally find the hogs. Young dogs realize they don’t have to hunt. They just kick back till the other dogs strike. If this is the case, try to not hunt him with lead dogs that always strike. You could also try leaving him at home when you hunt. Sometimes, they don’t like being left out and hunt better when they get to go. Just a couple ideas to try. To your point, some just don’t make the cut. I try to give them every chance to succeed so I have no guilt when they don’t make it.


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Jason I agree except if I put a dog in the box for wanting to hang out, that's where he stays. I don't want him to think he can hang out or ride until something else locates or gets it stopped. If he wants to whisper sweet nothings in Miss Piggie's ear then he better be trying to be the first one to her to tell her, not sitting back and voluntarily letting the other guys ask her to dance first. I was also taught not to hunt a pup in an uncontrolled situation until one year old. Just because they can physically keep up doesn't mean that they can mentally handle some of the things that could be thrown at them. Had I understood this sooner, I might not have ruined several different pups in several different ways. As for the young dog that shut down, I agree with shotgun. Try putting him in hot hot sign and leave your lead dog at home. Just because the lead dog isn't aggressive towards him, doesn't mean that he isn't the reason for him not hunting. We went through areal similar situation. We started leaving the lead dog at home and putting the young dog in the lead role. We took other dogs but nothing above his pay grade so to speak. In nothing flat he was turning the crank. When we started trying to hunt the lead dog with him again, he shut down again. We gave him and another dog that wasn't as far along but started to a young hunter. The dog made a hand, a real nice kind of dog. I think it's a competitive thing. He realizes he isn't going to beat the older dog to the hogs so he developed that screw it, I can't beat him so I'm not even going try attitude. Myself, when I know my dog has a good idea of why he's in the woods, I start casting them first. I they struggle too long or when they locate I send help.

The dog does honor a bay and sticks good I agree he may be just saying screw it and hanging around for a bay we may try by himself see what happens.

You can’t hunt Hunt into one it has to be bred in there. Just because it’s bred in there doesn’t mean they are all going to make it. Like Mike says I have seen a many of pup go through a lul around 2 but he should have showed you something before.


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With situations like this here's something that has worked a good deal for me, I have tried a lot of different approaches, some have worked and some haven't and I've ruined good prospects and this method has worked more times than none, when he comes back don't put him up, instead tie him to a stationary object in a position where he can't sit down at all or get even remotely comfortable, to the point that if he tries to sit down or sit back he  nearly chokes himself, might have to even put a rope around his flank to help out and hold him completely up where he is completely standing up at all time, fix him to where he can't get himself into any harm and go on about your business, get him used to a bark collar and put a bark collar on him and leave him there if you need to leave to get to other dogs, just make sure the sun won't change directions and be beaming on him or he can't get tangled or anything, after a few times of this he will realize it's more comfortable and convenient to be gone, by putting him back up your doing what he wants to do and he knows he can lay down and be comfortable, by doing this he won't associate you or a shock collar with pain and fear, may take a few times but he will eventually learn that coming back isn't going to lead to any type of pleasure or comfort, I'd try this before shocking him to hunt, not trying to sound like a smart ass but that method wouldn't even be an option of last resort for me, shock collars are an absolute game changer and is actually our way of communicating with our dogs when they are out of ear shot, if the dogs done what he supposed to before and other family members are doing it then it's in him somewhere it's up to y'all to figure out the most efficient way of getting it to surface, then again a 5 hp Briggs and Stratton engine will never be 350 vortec no matter the amount of work done to it....

This is about what I do. To me I don’t want to beg a dog to do it’s job and I’m inclined to believe most things are hereditary. That said, if he don’t start easy or natural, I don’t want him or her bred, and I don’t wanna keep much that isn’t breed worthy.

I agree...my yard is too small to have a dog that needs lots of tracks to make a Hog dog...sometimes early in a breeding program we have to lower our standards or if we are short on dogs...but the dogs that have the breeding and the hunt that take to hunting like a duckling takes to water are the kind I like to keep...the naturals

However, I do invest some time in the pups...

I think sometimes we raise a dog and get wrapped up in it I got no problems culling but he will .

Update on Brothers dog

We were hunting the other day and as we rode to a feeder me and Brother had a discussion on the fate of Ole Bubba dog we both agreed he started off strong but over the past few months he had declined and wasn't making the cut I said I know you raised him and are attached but I would handle the culling if he wanted to leave him at the house he reluctantly agreed it was probably best because he had only room for a couple of dogs. We pull up at the feeder and toss out 3 dogs my gyp that I think a lot of an older gyp that's solid and Bubba I could see hog tracks around the feeder so we sat and waited dogs were running around everywhere in and out of the thickets the two gyps peeled out went down in the bottom but Bubba stayed in the thicket a few minutes passed and Bubba blew up I couldn't believe it and figured he was trashing cause the gyps left that spot I didn't want to fight the briars to go see the possum he had in a hole but we did and I be danged he had a sow bayed we caught her she had a huge nest with new born pigs inside so he lived to hunt another day. Next we went to a farm got into a group of 15lb pigs caught 2 chased another big hog into the back water he hunted as good as the others. Last week took him to another spot pigs had rooted down the road casted him by himself he went out a couple hundred hard came back put down a younger gyp they went out 400 yards split up he bayed little gyp joined in once again im thinking trash but then a hog crossed the trail with bubba a few minutes behind we was hunting at night so I was happy we never got the hog they would bay and run bay and run finally they got into the back water and eventually swam back out and went to back tracking didn't want to stop it was midnight and had a busy day planned so called it a night. I have to say we don't usually let one go this long like I said earlier not in the polishing turd business but in this instance it may work out we shall see. I told my brother he must have been listening to our culling conversation haha.

Good deal... y’all may need to rename him Lucky haha.


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some dogs like a hog and  if you can get em out there they'll make a dog ....... but they also like to hang around the buggy too ...... sometimes  it takes  foot on head and  limb on a$$ .......  all you gotta have  is a dog that likes a hog and  will stay bayed i can put him out there ...

hahaha right, or Nick as in just in the nick of time lolol.

He must have heard that discussion hahaha

You never know what a dog will do until given enough chance. Like Parker said if a dog wants a hog a lot of the other stuff is up to you


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Larry we tried the foot on the head limb on the rear sucker would get under the Ranger where you couldn't get a good lick on him haha.

hahahaaha he'd have  to leave ..i want quit til he does .i'd run over  him ..even  if he  just goes off a hundred yards and lays  down  for a while ....you never  whip a  dog  for the  hunt  you on  you whip  him  for the next  hunt ..

here's another trick don't know why but  you get  one  in the collar and swing him round while tuning him up and  usually they will leave  they don't like  like that swinging round ...i am very ruff if i have  to be ...but  its either that or bullet .... i guess i get that from my daddy swing  me  round  by  my wrist  or  trying to catch up with me running  in a circle  while  he  tore  me  up ...hahahahaha  when he let  go  i left  hahahhaa  i have trained several like that that made sure  nuff dogs  later...... if  he'll stay bayed  by himself and loves a hog he'll make a dog  you just gotta  figure  out as trainer  what to do .....  our  job  is  to correct bad  habits  the rest falls in line  on its  own

Thanks for the advice will apply it  ;D

I agree 100% with this, a shock collar in that situation will do more harm than good I believe. If he were mine I would pick him up and not even turn him loose on the next few bays....hell id even go as far as to leave him home for a month or more and make sure that he see's / knows every time you are going hunting when you are leaving him home, sometimes being left home will put a fire in their ass when you do finally tote em again.

the 2 most important things ive learned over the years messing with my pups is #1) SLOW DOWN, if you are not sure that you are going slow enough then slow down some more. You can learn ALOT about your animals and the woods in general by dropping it in granny gear and letting things happen naturally, no need to blast all over the lease running the dogs ragged. #2) have fun, not all pups are going to be fire on day one, some take time (how much time depends on how much patience you have). I personally do things alot different than I used to years ago, I will admit that my dogs now are overall a better caliber of dog than they were 8-10 years ago and because of that I have changed the way I raise and mess with them. 10years ago I would show em multiple pigs as they grew up, sometimes it worked great and others it didnt work at all, eventually I quit showing them hogs at the house all together and simply waited til I felt they could handle themselves in the woods then toted em with the grown dogs and turn them to bays until they figured it out, now days i will still do that here and there but not near as often as I did back then. Im not looking for the decent pups out of my litters, im looking for what I feel is the most natural based off different things that I see, one thing that I do that has helped me quite a bit is that when I start toting pups to the woods I generally drop 2 or 3 at a time and let them go be puppies (7-9mths), I may sit in one spot for an hour before they come back or it may be 10 minutes but when they come back I dont pick them up immediately, I will give em another 5-10mins to get bored and leave again and 9 times out of 10 if i just ignore them they will disappear again pretty quick. When I am doing this I go to the woods with zero expectations other than to enjoy myself and let them learn things at their own pace. the most natural out of each litter will quickly begin to stick out amongst their peers, the single most important thing I look for is pups with "go" the natural drive and want to.....they dont have to have a clue what the hell they are doing, they just have to have the want to too do it. The single hardest aspect of messing with these dogs is finding ones that naturally want to go hunting, once you find em that have that natural "go" the rest is easy as it gets, the trashier the better for me. I can teach a puppy what I want him to hunt IF he naturally wants to go in the first place, its hard to teach em much if they arent interested in going in the first place. a perfect example of this is something that happened to me with my top prospect a few months ago, this was a 6.5mth old pup that i had brought to the woods a 1/2 dozen times before....... 2 buddies and myself were easing down a high grassy road with low lying tallow thickets on both sides, as we got towards the end of the trail a BIG buck jumped out not 30' in front of my pup and it was game on lol. my buddies both looked at me and said "what are you gonna do now" to which I replied not a damn thing, we are gonna sit here and drink a couple and see just what he is made of, an hour later we pulled up to that pup over over 2/3's a mile away wearing a 40lb shoat out by himself............ my point is that as long as you have pups with the natural want to then the rest is easy and all of the extras that I used to do trying to work them was just that....extras.

im not saying its the right way by any means because Lord knows there are as many different ways to go about training dogs as there are dog breeds in the world and what works for me may not work for you, ya just got to figure out what works for you and follow the plan, if things change then adapt and keep on rolling.


regarding the slowing down statement, I generally dont ride around much looking for tracks or sign, 1/2 the time i turn a pair loose from the truck before I even unload my buggy then get all my stuff together and head to em once im ready. A perfect example of where slowing down payed off for me, me and a buddy decided to make a late night run because when we were hunting in the mornings we were coming across multiple sets of big tracks throughout the lease but they were always from the night before and our dogs simply dont have that cold a nose so we decided to change it up on the hogs and started hittin the woods at 11-12 at night........ anyhow we did this one night a had caught a couple sows but nothing worth talkin about, it was 4:30ish in the morning and we were all tired, dogs included so we decided to call it good, we were 3/4 a mile from the truck so I said to hell with it told my buddy hell lets just push em to the truck.... we dropped em and started easing that way, about 400yds from the truck 3 of the 4 dogs we had started getting piggy and they all pulled right off of the road so we shut down and waited, a gyp of mine was the only one that didn't go with em and she was kinda screwin around by us not doing much but I ignored her and let her do her thing, about 20 minutes goes by and I realize she is gone, grabbed the garmin and she had gone 700yds the opposite direction of the other dogs through a young pine thicket STRAIGHT to a feeder I had set up, she made 4 circles around the feeder then rolled due north and bayed up solo on a stud of a boar hog (ive hunted those woods for over 25yrs, not all 25 with dogs but still) he ended up being the biggest boar hog Ive ever laid eyes on with dogs or through a scope in those woods. had I picked her up when she was "screwin around" we would have never laid eyes on that hog, instead we ended up catching a stud of a boar and got to watch the dogs work him for over an hour in a blowdown in the middle of a flooded creek.


SORRY FOR THE RAMBLING LOL, I was bored at work. been a while since I have visited this site, hope everyone is doing well.

Justin your methods sound a lot like mine I have never minded a pup running a deer a ways sometimes like in your example it gets them on hogs and that's all we really want is them to move out find a hog I have seen that happen before over time the dog decides heck with that deer I cant catch and goes for the hogs. I am not real patient but my brother is I have probably made some bad calls on dogs not giving enough time to get it I know I did on one named Willy that dog had some hunt but Lord he hunted everything trashiest dog I ever saw I was in the middle of building a house had the wife barefooted and prego with #3 had no time for this dog called the boy I bought him from told him I had a great deal for him if he wanted him back he was free I knew he had it but I didn't have the time to trash break him. 8 years latter started hunting with a young guy that lives near me and there ole Willy and boy he was a hog dog showed out almost to the day he died a couple months ago at 12 I think, I wish I would have kept him and put the time in him the guy that trash broke him said it took some time to achieve it . Willy was one of the best I have seen if you was thinking of a quick hunt you didn't even think about letting him out I am just glad I got to see the finished product.

the shock collar will work  if done right .....first you gotta  make  sure the dog knows  when you holler suey or whatever  command  you use  to  mean get gone ,,,,after that  some will get out about 60 yards  or so and  hang up waiting on another  dog or sulling ...i holler  suey and bump they'll leave ...some dogs  is hard headed .......i've  done about everything ....but collars  will  work

What have you found works best limb or the collar?

myself i use  my cable lead ...and  if  he don't  get the message with the cable end  i'll use  the  snap end ...like a  said  i'll get ruff it  i need  too ... its  usually male  dogs   that  need  it ...... i ain't  never  been able  to love  one  into anything ...... loading  one  up ain't never  worked  for me  either .....some like to ride hahahaha ...... if they  like a hog and will run  or bay  one if you get  em on it  i can usually  make a dog  out  of em  might  take  me a   little  bit but they usually come around ....the  shock collar  i don't like to use at all if  i can  keep  from it .... but  i have  done it  and  it works like i said some dogs will hang  up about 100  yards out looks like they running up and down a road  on the garmin  they looking for a  dog  to  run with ...those  you holler  suey and bump  they'll pull out .... problem with collars  is  once  you use  it then thats  what  you have  to use  it  for on that dog and you gotta try and  make  sure  the  dog knows why he  got bumped ........i wouldn't suggest anything to anyone  i haven't  done  myself ......

Solid points Mr. Larry. what I highlighted in red is 1000% correct in my eyes. I try to only use my shock collars for 2 things, 1 to shut em up in the buggy (rarely needed but it has been used) and #2 to stop em when I need to stop em but to be honest any dog with 1/2 a brain in his head figures out REAL QUICK what comes after the tone...... 9 times out of 10 I can turn mine around from wherever they are with nothing but the tone feature.

the tone feature  is  gonna be a game changer  lots  of people get rid  of  good  long range dogs  because  of  not having access to follow them ......  myself i don't care  for mine  to run long as  i used too ....way  more hogs to hunt these  days than used to have ......

The best tip I can give is, don't get ruff on a dog unless he knows exactly what your getting on to him for. If he knows, you can whip him, shock him or whatever, and he want cower down or be afraid of you, but will respect you. If one does get under the buggy, don't quit until he gets out from under there and leaves or you have just trained him to get under something when punished.

Lots of good info. I have a lighter hand personally and really the only time I get rough is for fighting or trashing on a skunk etc. And there is no doubt they know what they are getting whooped for. If I have to beat them constantly then they are not the type of dog I will feed. I am not opposed to putting boot to ass to keep them on the straight and narrow, just don't want dogs that I have to do crazy things to, to get them to hunt or listen. Different strokes for different folks, I definitely have a lot more learning to do myself.

I was hunting with a young man while back he dropped some young dogs I did to mine went on and bayed his didn’t he kick em grabbed em by the collar twirled them around and hollered to get ahead. We caught the hog and moved on mine took off he was getting set he was just bout to kick the dog and I said would you like my opinion. He said ok I said if your boss wife daddy or anybody else treated you like that would you respect them or work hard for them he said hell no I said then why you treating that dog like that he don’t know he should be out hunting all you did was teach him to get away from you then by chance the dog will eventually find something. But you would have a much better dog by letting him chose on his own or make him think it’s his own thought. Beating things to achieve results is ok if you like beating things.


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Mr. Larry, I can say without a doubt in my mind that the alpha system has made me an all around better dog handler / hunter. before I had the ability to tone/shock a dog I was always more worried about where they were headed and spent more time running all over the place trying to stay where I could cut em off..... now days its the complete opposite, i don't worry about a thing regarding where they are as I can turn them around with the touch of a button. It has given me the opportunity to slow down and in doing so it has let me relax and enjoy myself more in the woods.

judge peel  you do things  your  way  and  i'll do mine  mine ....but  don't try and down mine unless you hunt with me and see the results ..... i very seldom even have  to whip one  but  i will ....... there's hunters and there's trainer's ........  when i finish one  i can send him or rig him if he  comes in close enuff to hear  me i can send  him back out several hundred yards or so  by himself  can  you ?   and i have trained truck loads  like that  and quite a few other's couldn't get to hunt ...

Parker I never said anything thing about you bubba. I could careless how you train your dogs or what they do after you train them. Everyone on here can post there ideas and opinions as long as they ain’t slandering anyone or talking crazy.


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   Beating things to achieve results is ok if you like beating things.

 
 maybe so ...but we were talking about having to get  kinda ruff on some  dogs to get them to get out where they need to be  and  you posted  that  kind  of post ...kinda hard  for me to take  it any  other  way ...... but  if you didn't  mean it that way  its  all good ...

Justin...you said what I would of said...I will repeat some of what you said...training is very easy...just doing the right things at the right time in most situations...

Pups...I can’t say it enough...select for natural ability...natural ability means watching and observing and reading what going through the pups mind and demeanor...setting up testing situations for nose, trailing and winding...and observe and note...take the pups to the woods and turn them loose at a good spot and watch and observe...sometimes all the pups will hit the woods running the first time out if they are bred to do that...that tells me all will pack up and go one day...but we must look deeper and see who is leading the pack of pups...he will grow up doing it that way all his working life...after a couple of outings to verify this pup leave this leader at home and see who steps up on the next outings...its about natural ability...not necessarily the best at it but born with the natural inclination to do it right...only breed those kind and that will beget more of the same...with those kind very little training is  required...just do the right things at the right time and they will progress by leaps and bounds...those kind of pups excite me...

I think this way because I also look towards the next generation when I look at the pups of today...

If I only wanted to buy a pup now and they I would spend a little time with it in training...

I hardly ever have to put a hand on my dogs either they do me proud most days I try to treat mine right the dog that I began the discussion with is an oddity and I posted it because I figure I could learn from opinions and others could too he was on the cull list he started off real good and then fell off most dog I have seen that started like him went on to make solid dogs in my opinion he was old enough to be doing it on his own. I guess what im trying to say is before we culled him we were willing to try other stuff like a shock collar. I dont think most people here have a problem tuning one up but I wouldn't ever beat on a dog for fun or over do a tuning up I got one gyp I like alot and I have never as much as yelled at and when she comes in she belly crawls to me like I have tortured her I know this dog most likely would be ruined by getting hard on her on the other hand I have seen some dogs you have to be harder on to keep them in line I got a bull dog that kind of thick I have to be harder on him but I like hearing everyone's advise and opinions each dogs different .

We’re dang near in the exact same wavelength on this, I learned some time ago that Mother Nature has a way better way to show me the naturals than I ever did evaluating and assessing them and picking what I thought was best, now a days they are allowed to be pups until it looks like they’re mentally mature and taking them riding in the box when I go somewhere and walks through the woods doing their own thing at their own pace all while learning what the world around them is, I’ve gained an entire new meaning to satisfaction....


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all i'm gonna say  is  ya'll over  think this stuff  to much .....  start with bloodline thats where consistancy comes  from .....besides that either  he or she  just progresses on his  or  her  own with hunting experience .....if not you gotta  be a trainer  ......  thats it  its simple ......  watch lab trainers force  train dogs that are hard or bird hunters  they'll burn one up .... but they are trainers  ........ no knocking any ones  ways  it each  to his  own  but  its not that big  of a  deal  for  me ...   

I’m not knocking you a bit Larry, I’ll be the first to admit I’ll get heavy handed when needed but it’s mainly for discipline and handling issues, I’m no where near bad about as I used to be and that’s mostly because of the dogs I’m raising now don’t really need it much and it takes a different  approach with them, I spend enough time with mine that they learn voice commands and couple that with the tone and they handle pretty decent,  now there are a few light whoopings involved at first until they recognize the commands...


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When you resort to beating a dog....at that very point...the dog beat you!

Cajun1...you are right...when we do the right things at the right time it minimizes discipline issues...

Hunting the dogs...just like Justin said...we shouldn’t get in a hurry to hunt the dogs...we take our time and make the plan of entrance...cast the dogs and let them set the pace...move as needed...stop and let them work until they are satisfied and then move as needed...but we are the leaders of the pack...sometimes we can analyze the situation and steer the dogs in the right direction to put them on hogs...hunting this way makes for better dogs...I like a dog that does a good job of looking before they are ready to move on...

When I said let the dogs set the pace i mean it this way...the dogs set the pace for their style of hunting...when we allow the dogs to set the pace...the dogs will become better hunting dogs...

who has said anything about beating a dog just to beat a dog .... i've said i'll get ruff as  i need  too ...... i get results in breeding and training dogs fact ....  we have 6 finished dogs here any dog will go find bay hogs day after day by themseleves and range  out several hundred yards  to find  sign ....i sold 3 last year  for 7 grand  young dogs ....my son sold one for 6 grand finished the boy that hunts  with me sold one  for  4  grand and  my son got offeredabout 2  months ago 7 grand and the man already has  5  parkerdogs and said  he'd  come up on the price ........ and  i have seen times  on some  of em we have  had  to  get  on em perty hard ....thats  just since  last  year ....and  i already have  some young dogs finding hogs  i could sell now  if  i wanted  too ..... ya'll can have  it ......   about  a handful on here has raised and  trained enuff dogs  to fill a toyota ...but  let  someone posts and man scientific evaluations start  and thats  fine  its  all conversation ........but  ain't none  of  you can tell me  how  to train hogdogs  ...... have a good   one fella's  ....... oh  one other  thing before  i go ...cajun   i hunted  hounds  for  years won the 92 state coon hunt with a  walker gyp and qualified for world hunts  coon and  squirrel .. hunted with orval stayed at his place ..i been around dogs a long time ... i know  hounds also if they ain't running with the other dogs  by  6  to 9  months  old  kill em most  people do  ....curdog  is a different breed  ........

Hey Larry. there are two Cajuns on this board. One is Cajun! from Fla. & the other is me, just Cajun. I have the Bayou Cajun Plotts & I have never commented on this post.

Everyone one on here has good points from time to time with the over thinkers to the just doers. And everyone in between. If it works for you and you feel good about what your doing keep on trucking. I don’t let what others say change what I do or think.


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cajun (mike) ......i apologize for  getting  you  mixed with someone else .......  it  kinda  hit a nerve  with me  that some made comments  about beating dogs ....i'll stand  on ones  head  if i have  too .....  but anyway  again  sorry about me mixing you with someone else ....

Handle handle handle handler, how you get the handle that's your choice. Best dogs I've had saved em  from Parvo....meaning built a bond ,if you can build a bond whoopings are rare . I spend a lot of one on one time and go from there. Kinda like choosing your friends ,you woudnt have one that's a crack head and what was said earlier,the right breeding helps a lot. You are only traing a dog to handle ,load quiet when need be,etc....your not traing em to hunt, if they got it then they got it if they don't well you know what. Just my opinion

Ain't it funny how that works Goose  :D. ………..little bit older little bit wiser...…..I know for sure that in the past few years my whole outlook has changed, its not nearly as hard as I used to make it...…..breed em, raise em, tote em to the woods and repeat...… all the details find a way of workin themselves out. It has for sure renewed my love for hog hunting and messing with these dogs of mine, I used to be so worried about every little thing that they did or didn't do but now that Ive "seen the light" so to say my outlook has changed and I believe it has made me a better hunter and handler.

Training can be made very easy or it can be made very hard and frustrating by the choices we make...
A few examples;

Call the pup or dog to you and you shove a pill down it’s throat...if you don’t know how to do it it will be a struggle and that creates pups and dogs that will become Leary and not trust when called to come...and then we get frustrated and make another wrong decision and that starts a cycle that will spiral downhill from there...

Knowing how to position the dog and pet him up good when forcing the pill down it’s throat is quite a bit better and the pup won’t struggle but this is not the best way only a better way...
Crush the pill or empty the capsule in a small amount of food in the bowl with a dash of chicken broth and the pup or dog will see it as a treat and when you call him to you he will gladly come to you because you have good things to give to the pup or dog...they are learning to trust you because we are consistently doing the right things...

When roading the pup or dog pay close attention...if they are interested in a scent stop and let them work on it...if they go into the woods wait until they strike or come back out...their minds will be focused on hunting and not on you leaving them behind...not waiting creates trust issues...when waiting on them they learn to trust that you are always always there...the power of trust makes for better hunting dogs...if they can’t trust they will become half a$$ hunting dogs...they will take a quick look and haul a$$ trying to catch up with you...yep, they will learn to take the hot tracks but they will leave the colder tracks alone...

If you want them to give it their best shot then wait on them...if you see where the game of choice could be hidden get off the wheeler and slowly walk in that direction and this gives the dogs a chance to find the game...same thing with winding...if they loop and keep losing the scent then take a look at the wind and see what is causing the dogs to lose the scent...is it channeling or whipping around? Is it skimming over thick brush? We figure and then we act to help the dogs....not to do the work for them but to guide them towards making better hunting dogs...

Another thing about pups that bark too much at the kennel...step out the back door and the pups bark and cry loudly...if we go to them and pet them up at that time you have just given them their first lesson without you even knowing it...they bark and we come and give attention...the pups figured that out by the third time...and now the pups are raising cane each time we step out and this will come to a head one day and this will create more trust issues again...

Ignore the pups and keep doing what you were fixing to do...I use the red rider to get my point across but it is quite a bit easier to get the results I want...if the pups raise a ruckus with excitement on my way to let them out I turn and walk away...I try to sneak up on them so they can be quiet when I show up...it doesn’t take them long to figure out that quiet is better...

If the pup don’t want to kennel at feeding time I won’t try to run him down nor beg him to come to me...I walk up and pick him up and put him in the pen...no harm done and no real issues..instead the new plan is cut back on feed and the pup will gladly kennel when the command is given...usually by the next day and for sure during the following day...

Training is pretty simple when we set up correctly and or take advantage of a good opportunity to correct or praise...sometimes it is best to ignore giving the command if you know you can’t back it up at that moment...

Reuben,

This is great a perspective, good and usable advice. I spent a lot of time in the woods and realize some of my faults in my hunting operations just by reading your post. Very good, simplified, and effective advice you give. I think sometimes I get in a hurry and don't realize what the dogs are telling me or how they're learning or woking a track. I will try to slow it down and given them more opportunity for growth and trust building.

Jstankus...your welcome