EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I was wanting to get another litter out of one of my good gyps that iv had for years, I have her son and her daughter from her last litter, iv been hunting for about 10 years but never have done much breeding, so I was wondering if I could breed her back to her son, would like to hear yalls opionions and experience with doing that, thank y’all in advance and have a nice day

I would in a heartbeat if they're both good dogs and they're what you really like.  I hunted for years with Mr. Orval Roberts. His saying was "breed close and keep your hammer handy".

Not any professional but I've learned if you have what you like you have to keep it tight . Later on breed the sister backk to a male out of the mom from the breeding your talking about ...then think about a lil out cross. But I'm no breeder just a hunter.

Ain’t going to hurt a thing, not all families and strains of dogs breed alike certain crosses work for some and may not click with others...


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If the sire to the male and female pups is still around and available I would ask myself these questions...
 Is the sire a Hog dog and better all around than the dam of the pups? Is he better bred than the dam...if yes then I would ask myself if the female pup is as good as the dam and as good as her brother...if yes I would consider breeding the daughter to the sire because he comes from better dogs than the dam...

I would then use the same logic with the dam and son...and I would make my decision based on that thought process...

My assumption is that they are not intensely linebred so you shouldn’t  have any problem with your plan...just do your best in keeping the best pups...

Ive had great luck with father daughter or son mother breedings, thats a f1 cross and whatever traits they come out with it will be very concentrated, good or bad. Mine are usually a little smaller than their parents in size, not hunt, but if you out cross them they will throw normal size pups

^ This is the truth right here. Just like some families of dogs can take a lot more inbreeding then other families. The only way to find out is to make the breeding and see.

The most important thing imo is are both dogs of breeding quality? If in your opinion they are and they are what you want more of then make that breeding.

The last thing I would recommend is keep all of the puppies or if you can't keep them all, try to keep'em close to you so you can truly see how the breeding produced. Hunt them all hard and cull harder.

Good luck!

want hurt .... what does all the rabbits  and squirrels  do ?    its  defects you gotta watch for ...and  if  you  line bred  hard don't save  weak ones thats  how mother nature gets  by  with it ........


here's what mine  is   looking  like after 30 years .......

 https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28424385_440235496396269_6296138859101063018_o.jpg?oh=48be38ba4418de831f709c345cc35625&oe=5B47A2B6 (https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28424385_440235496396269_6296138859101063018_o.jpg?oh=48be38ba4418de831f709c345cc35625&oe=5B47A2B6)

(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28424385_440235496396269_6296138859101063018_o.jpg?oh=48be38ba4418de831f709c345cc35625&oe=5B47A2B6)

I agree with what was said about evaluating the old gyp. Are you breeding because of ability or sentimental reasons?  A successful dog man once told me you can breed father/daughter 7 times back to back before you hurt anything but that same rule did not apply to mother/son crosses. He said he hadn't seen anyone get consistent target results from it. He said when breeding back towards a female that a grandson or nephew was usually best. I've tried mother/son 2 times and they were the worst results I've ever had. I bred the same female to other close related dogs and produced well. So as a rule I don't do that. Not saying it don't work for others but for the standards I expect it hasn't for me.

it's just like any other breeding , it'll either work , or it won't .         

                                  if it works it's linebreeding if not it's inbreeding . if it don't work i wouldn't try twice .

i go back to what i always have  said ...if  we all knew what we think we know about breeding dogs you could buy top dogs all day  long for about a buck a piece ..........  if your breeding don't work  you just didn't have the blood you thought you had  .... period .......

Whole lot of truth right here, we can all sit around and talk till were blue in the face or type till our fingers fall off, unless you have extensive knowledge of the back ground behind your dogs it’s all a crap shoot, we can speculate all day long about what one would do in a perfect situation, if there was such a thing then like parker49 said there would be top dogs on every corner for pennies on the dollar, the reason they’re not is because there’s not a man or woman alive who has figured it all out, there’s some that have come pretty close with but none have figured it out completely, only thing a person can do is trial and error and learn from your mistakes and try not to repeat them in the future...


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thats right . the best cross i ever made didn't turn out worth a schitt , the oldtimers said if that cross don't work we might as well go back to the drawing board ... the best cross i made was accidental and a sure enough outcross . somebody tell me why . like said even the scientists don't know everything .

 the best bred colt i ever bought wouldn't even look at a cow .


they cloned the frenchmans guy horse and had them 3 colts on the cover of western horseman , 2 had a spot on their for head and 1 didn't . ONLY GOD KNOWS EVERYTHING THEIR IS TO KNOW ABOUT GENETICS !

i'm 5'6 and my wife was 5'2 , my oldest boy is 14 and gonna be 6'2 and weigh 180 . he's got arms as big around as my thighs , but maury povich said "YOU ARE THE FATHER " ;D ;D ;D

there is methods to the madness that produce better results ....... each to his  own to learn em ........it only takes about 100  litters  to get decent at it .......

I did a mother son cross because it's all I had got 3 pups one looks identical to the mother she found her first hog a couple months ago at 9 months old I kept a male and a female gave the other one to a friend mine roll out and hunt good the one I gave my friend plays a lot still and hasn't done much but I'm happy with mine.

I always heard that u take two dogs of the best u have or can breed to. breed them then take the best pups that they have male and female and 90% of the time the female will be like the daddy and the male will be like the momma so then u take male pup to momma and female pup to daddy ok so now see what side is better of the two litters then run with that side


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it takes way more time and  litters  to get stream  lined and consistant than most people stay in hog hunting .......  there;s breeding some dogs to hunt with then there's breeding a working  line .......   at the end of the days its all opinions ....... and you have  to pick through them just like a  litter  of pups ......

i have been breeding my dogs for about 11 years .i am just now line breeding half sister to half brother. it has taken me that long to get to this point .just about where i need to be.

My first half brother half sister litter produced two of the best pups i have owned . At ten months old they where hunting with my old dogs . They where the real deal . The rest i culled . i keep one and a friend got one . Mine got ran over but my friends is doing better than two year old dogs he has . i have three gyps breed now .Same way half brother half sister.i cant wait 30 more days .

Breeding better dogs is more about common sense and knowing what a top Hog dog should be for starters...if we are lucky and start with a great line of dogs then we have saved ourselves many years of breeding to improve a line of dogs...

If you start with one top notch dog from a line of dogs from scatter bred dogs that produce plenty of culls and you think you can start a line off of him...well you will waste a lot of time trying to get a good percentage of quality pups...it will be many generations...

You start with a good line of dogs and test your pups and keep the ones that scored best and then select from those and you will be successful...have three or four generations of the very best and you will be at a good spot to produce good dogs...

Select for natural ability first...if you have to feed lots of tracks to make an average hunting dog you can expect the same from the pups and future generations...

When selecting the very best pups from great dogs then we are on track to produce great dogs...and each generation will give you a higher percentage of good pups...the reason why is because each generation that has been bred are great dogs...great dogs from a line of great dogs begets more of the same...if we expect and demand to have the very best then we won’t be talking about how and why breeding better dogs doesn’t work...

Great dogs from a long line of great dogs have the right genes in them...


What is a great dog? a  great dog is a dog that can be cast out after a decent pack of dogs has checked out a square mile or more of woods and didn’t find anything and this dog went behind those dogs and found and bayed hogs...this dog doesn’t need any help...he can wind, rig, track and be free casted...if there are hogs in the area you can bet your bottom dollar that he will find them...great dogs usually don’t have bad days...we can get a dog like this from known dogs that comes from a long line of great dogs...should we build a breeding program around this dog? Yes...I would...

A great dog looks good in any company...

Reuben, I totally agree with you, you have to start with a solid line of dogs. Also thoroughly testing the offspring yourself or testing through fellow hunters that have tested them. Sometimes it takes alot of searching to acquire the bloodline that suits your way of hunting and there are many ways of hunting. One man's top dog is someone else's cull. They gotta please you and no one else. At the end of the day, breed em if YOU like them.

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great reading here.

I've made several crosses like your wanting or asking to do and tighter. Just make sure they are what you want ( hunt'n style, drive etc..)  Your going to have better luck when breeding good hunt'n dogs together whether it's line breeding, inbreeding or outcrossing one in. The cross will work fine for you. Hopefully you'll produce like dogs. You may have a throw back or two out of the litter, but it should tighten up your line. Remember this will bring out the good traits that your looking for and enhance them, but if you have any bad traits that you dont like it could enhance them too.  Good luck and keep us posted...

again goooood reading

mike

Thanks everyone on the feed back, iv had this gyp for years and has been my lead dog, 2 years ago I bred her to a jam up bmc a buddy of mine had, she had 9 pups in that litter and I sold all of them except one, i kept in touch with everyone that had pups from that litter and all of them made jam up dogs from what everyone has told me, I have a gyp from that litter and she has turned on great for me and so has the male from that litter I kept, I still have the mom but don’t hunt her much anymore just here and there was just wanting to get another litter out of her I really appreciate all the comments back