EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I've read many comments pertaining to RCDs and packs of alligators.    Just curious as to what breeds or crosses or types you individuals are using as RCDs and why.     What is a pack of alligators, I assume just curs that catch as a pack.     

We have a few different dogs we run. My favorite two on my yard are littermates, a brother and a sister. They’re Dad is a cold nosed long range Ladner BMC, the Mom is a well bred RCD pit that comes from old blood, I think Wooten. There have been 3 litters from the same parents and almost every dog turns out and they’re all about the same. They’re silent, and are straight catch. Both of mine will catch anything, even if they’re alone. They’re suicidal dogs. I’m also running a puppy off of the female, she’s 1/4 black mouth and 3/4 pit. I think she’ll be a short to medium range dog. She’s already suicidal and straight catch at around 12 months old. I run a pit that doesn’t really hunt, he just honors them and runs with the pack.

I hunt with my buddy Timmy a lot and he runs an airepit that is silent, straight catch, even by herself. And he runs two pits that are the same way. They will both hunt. Most of our dogs will go over a mile on a track, even the pits. Almost all the pits we have will find their own pigs. He has a few other mixed up breeds that are about the same.

I don’t think this type of dog would work for your style of hunting Black Streak, they’re better for a pack style hunting. But I think some people interpret a pack of alligators as just rough dogs, that’s not the case in my personal opinion. None of these dogs need another dog for them to catch. They will all catch a big boar even by themselves. Typically though they stay packed together. We mainly hunt for farmers that want the pigs destroyed. So the goal is to shut them down quickly and violently. 9 times out of 10 when we get to a caught pig it’s buckled and down on its stomach, we don’t have to grab the legs or anything to stick it. Smaller pigs are often completely destroyed by the time we get there. Especially if they’re caught over a mile away.

The 1/2 BMC 1/2 pits that I have are great dogs. They’re silent, stay busy hunting, and are quick on track. They’re shorter range dogs. If they’re over 350yds they’re running a track. These two dogs are what my yard will eventually be based on. I want to find an easy Texas Black mouth that hunts similarly to throw to one of them and then I’ll start line breeding them. That will bring in a little more size as well. They’re not real big dogs at around 40-45lbs.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190322/ef88aad2c25971d7b8fd7ecaab3a1a37.jpg)


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I figured most people were using some sort of bay breed or bird dog mixed with a catch breed such as pit or dogo.  Maybe even having a percentage of grey hound or stag in there.    My stuff is pretty different than that.   

Just cur dog no pit or dogo


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Is the intended purpose of the these bay breeds turned catch dogs and the bay catch crosses to find and catch their own pig or catch as a pack?     

We run ours as a pack, but we do sometimes have multiple pigs caught at one time. My Dum Dum dog will slip off and catch his own and sometimes the other dogs will catch another one on the way to him. I like them to stay together though. I notice that we do better when they stay packed tight, and then you spend less time trying to get dogs back together. We also don’t get dogs hurt very often because that many dogs tearing at the pig will basically shut the pig down and not let it move enough to do much damage. It’s not uncommon for us to get there and find the face ripped off the pig.


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I also run shorter range dogs so we can normally get to them pretty quick, making it safer for the dogs. Our dogs normally don’t go past 200-300 yards unless they hit a track. We do have strike dogs that are strictly bay dogs also that we run sometimes. If we aren’t running silent we will run one or two longer ranged strike dogs that are open, and all the other dogs will stick with them. Even our pits will stick with them for a mile or two


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I strongly suspected that was the general  style with the type dogs y'all use.     We share a few things in common but most is different to varying degrees.       Probly do to both me being so different and my dogs being so different.          My ways go hand in hand my dogs.   They are a product of me rather than I of them.         

I’ve read a lot of your posts about your style of hunting blackstreak, very interesting. There’s nobody in my area that hunts that way you do. It must be challenging to find/make dogs that fit that criteria. I know our dogs wouldn’t do good at that type of work, but they also don’t have all the work and breeding behind them that specializes in that type of hunting either.


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            I used to hunt with rifle then a bow.     I would take a bow and ease around and walk for hours where I suspected pigs would be laid up.    I was very skillful and very successful.   The Lord blessed me with talents of being an a hunter and fisherman that not many aspire to.   That's best way to describe it.      After a while He placed in my mind the idea and desire to catch these pigs I was stalking up on with a certain type dog rather than kill the pig with a bow.       The Lord enabled me to analyze things in a unique way and see and understand things.   He showed me and enabled me to understand why this style and type dog would be so effective and how to hunt them.       It made sense to me before I even had the dogs.    I keep tweaking this or that about the dogs still.    I have been very blessed in obtaining the stock in which these dogs have derived from.      Had to be devine intervention as to how I come by so many of the key dogs that I have obtained.          People throw big big money at me to try to get this dog or that dog.  I don't have much money at all invested in these dogs.   Never paid much for a dog if I paid anything for one.     They catch their own food and their dog food freezer stays full.  It has never been empty.  I have made 1 trip to the vet to get a dog stiched up and another trip to get a thorn removed from ones eye.    That's the total number of times I've had to pay a vet a visit, just 2 over the many years.      My understanding of hunting is unique, my dogs are unique, they cost me nothing but actually pay for themselves and provide me with much enjoyment, love, food, and companionship.         I know where all this came from.  I've always known where it was coming from.    For me this has been so easy and easy to understand yet almost seemingly impossible for others.    It is God's talents he has blessed me with.  Do to the difficulties others have with understanding what I see as simple and easy, I understand just how unique and amazing this blessing I have been given is.    It has been a lonely road but, if anyone was suited for that solitude it was I.     Just me, my dogs, and God and His guidence and grace coupled with my effort.             That is how the black sheep known as black streak came by the dogs and style that are as unique as he is.    It's all owed to God and by His grace. 

There has been one out dogs bred for hundreds of years Cur dogs your not the only one Dean.Your total dismissal and lack of respect for any one who chooses to own and run a different style of dog than you is why your a loner.The terrain, endless land coupled with a good understanding of dogs and shear number of hogs is why your so successful.By no means am I dismissing you as I know you're very intelligent and your dogs are extremely suited for the country and work you provide them but that does not mean that they are the best suited dog for other areas or other people.The thick unavageable terrain coupled with far fewer hogs that say I hunt would not be as suited for the type of dog you feed as the type I feed.Many of the Cur dogs of old in this area will trail and bay but catch when the handler arrives they do this from many years of breeding for because it worked for the people making the dogs to work in the country they were intended to work just as yours.Truly one out dogs but totally different than yours.You're not the first.You obviously have placed yourself on a pedestal for some reason over the years and it only has gotten worse with the continued success and traction your gaining with your program and dogs.I really used to enjoy talking with you and once again I respect you and your dogs I believe in your success in your area but this does not mean it's the only way or the best way by any means.I'm sure you could catch hogs in my area with your dogs as well ,more than the locals with stock that was bred to be successful here for hundreds of years ?I highly doubt it.Could we come there and catch hogs in your area?Im sure we could, would your specialized dogs for the work and terrain out perform them in their day in day out job most definitely.I'm sure you're a great hunter and fisherman as many are but it's very offensive the way you act as if we're all fools because we don't a mass to follow your teachings by lining up our old stock and culling the lot to own your new era next best thing.

This thread was started as poke on your part.

   Oh my!      You have it bad

There has always been catching curs some do some don’t most aren’t mixed with any catch breed there just bred to be rough or some just pop up as in any breed. Some use them in packs and some use them in single or pairs. I use mine as a cd or loose to catch as they want. Ever since man has had control over dogs they have been used to catch prey. I don’t see the big deal


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Where in this thread has the offense been taken about cur dogs?      This is very intriguing to me.    Where in the thread does it say a cur doesn't catch?     I'm sure if the place of offense is pointed out, I can address better the context of the comment.                   

Never seen anyone try and act more "Australian" than this Black Sheep guy. :laugh: I have nothing against The Ausies. I respect their "one out" style, but we have been using cow bred cur dogs to find, stop, and hold their own hogs for at least 150 years here in South/Central Florida. ;)

Why does it bother yall and get under your skin that I do things differently?       Seems to be a long verbal history of bay breeds  being used to catch their own pigs.     I never said there wasn't but I have never read such things pertaining to the bay breed having been created to catch their own.     It's common to read where they are used in the capturing of boar but not like the claims y'all are starting to make about using them as 1 out dogs to catch pigs with.         
    Since this thread has become something of yall making claims your curs are 1 out dogs then why not show pictures of these curs holding big boar under 1 out fair chase conditions.if it's so common and been done for hundreds of years with bay breeds then surely there must be tons of pictures to substantiate these claims.         
        I mean I can provide several years worth of personal pictures of many different dogs holding their own good pigs under fair chase conditions
 
     Intuition tells me that you guys getting offended at me just for sharing my style dogs and me giving credit where credit is do, to God for my success and great fortune with these dogs, can not provide the pictures and proof that I so easily can and have been collecting for several years.             
     

I am sure you have great dogs and infact I'm happy for you I was just saying that you're not the only one and your dogs aren't the only way.Your way of thinking is not new, only new to you because you just started using these dogs a few years ago.I personally don't choose to use my extremely catchy dogs except in certain situations any more.Mainly site hunting which I do very little of and I suspect the majority of your hunting is.I found that nose trailing/winding ability and stock sense is far more valuable to me.Not to mention taking my time.I have asked you in the past how good the noses were on your dogs because I was considering one and you would never answer but its fairly obvious what kind of noses they posses because the breeds being used to make them.I see your pictures they're in the wide open on hogs that you obviously saw and sent your dogs to or they winded in totally wide open hog infested country.When I catch a hog 99% time I can't see the hog until I'm right on top of him and the dogs in the palmettos,gulberries,pepperberries,briars,cutovers,switchgrass,stickmarsh etc.etc. Your terrain is very similar to the Australians and that's why you choose to mimmick them and I get it but it doesn't have a single thing to do with my country or anyone else's on here.I know of many people in Ga that use similar dogs to yours bull/lurcher,Stag/wolf/bull, Danes and Dane crosses but they use them for site work in crops when they need to trail a hog to its bed they use a different dog for the job.If watching a dog catch a pig is all you want to do and you have the open hog infested country to hunt then this type of dog may be fine but it's really nice watching a fine piece of trailing happen on the Garmin when your after a few hogs on a lot of thick country.We all know that you love to argue your dogs play the blacksheep and that this thread was created with the loaded question so you could tell us how much better your dogs are than everyone else's and in certain situations I'm sure they are just as in other situations they'd be made to look foolish by dogs created for the intended use.If you read any history on Fl Crackers and our Cracker Curs there's plenty of writtings on them being used to catch boars and wild cows by themselves.They're just intelligent enough to not commit suicide and wait on their handler to get there before catching out but I promise the rough ones if sent to hogs in the wide open catch and hold as good as any the difference is they also posses extremely good noses.I was sending you pictures of hogs we were sending single dogs to and catching several years ago and you know it.So don't act like this is all new. If you have endless land and endless hogs than pictures of dogs holding hogs is easy hell catching hogs when they're thick as thieves is easy but it's no where near as satisfying as catching one really hard hog and watching some quality dog work.So I guess I took the bait hook line and sinker on your loaded question so there ya go.

I suspect you probably use thermal or night vision and play the wind as well hell people in ga been doing that for years and years you can get 10yds from hogs like that easy.Even if your not it's not hard catching hogs you see especially if you play wind and plan a decent stalk.

Cracker you speak of my dogs and the type that I use as though you have experience with them.   I know you don't because of how you describe them.   To you its a theory and assumption.       You have a theory about these dogs and you try to twist everything into it and what can't be twisted to fit you disregard.      As I've stated i use these dogs in many ways.    Pictures I've posted recently prove it.     Yes i hunt the open stuff but I hunt all types of stuff including brush, woods, swamps, water, it matters not.     I go where the pigs are.  I'm able to be so diverse because the dogs enable it.       Their is nothing magical about an environment that prohibits such dogs from being able to hunt it and do well in it.     Your just being irrational.          
      I've not put you or your dogs down, I have made no stabs at anyone or their dogs.      I created this thread so that all of us as RCD guys can talk about our dogs and share how we use them.    Where was the harm in that?    I do not wish to divide people.     There is already enough misinformation about RCDs and as illustrated by you a ton of misinformation about the type and style that I use.       Why is it so offensive to some that I speak of these dogs.      Do you think i fabricate things? Do you see me in here trying to sale dogs or am I just showing and sharing?     I'm not peddling or even advocating people get these dogs, yet you seem to have implied that earlier in order lend credit to your narrative.              
       There are many things I can do to show more about these dogs.     I can take pictures of the garmin screen showing them 800 yards or 1 a mile but that's not me. I can if you'd like though.       Fact is I want efficiency and diversity. This efficiency in my dog type prevents easy catches from become something more.   It prevents a 200 yard find from becoming an 800 yard catch.  It prevents a pig found here from running over there.  
     I send 2 dogs to a group in a feild.   2 pigs caught right there in the feild.   Then one or two more caught deep in the brush because the same two dogs roled out and went into the woods across big deep creeks and caught more in the brush where the pigs run to.   Often times they role out again and catch another but I'm wet because I've swam a creek or exhausted because I've run so much.        To me that's a job well done by my dogs.  If I don't make my dogs stay at the catch and then clip them on a lead and walk them back they role out.     All you want to see and add to your theory about my dogs is just the crop work.              I walk hunt them, I hunt behind them in a hoopie, I cast them, I sight hunt them, etc etc.   Why limit myself to just one way.     I have this type dog for a reason, because they aren't limited to this or that.  
     Making claims as though they are factual about my dogs or my style despite never having hunted with me and my dogs is improper at a minimum.       I don't really care to say much more again on this.   I hope I have brought clarity to this narrative and debunked some of these ill fated theories.    

I ain't even read all this but I'll get into the mix and say this, ain't but one way to truly know something is what it's claimed to be unless you go see for your self, heck  boys go put the dogs down and see what you got somewhere else, it's as easy as that, won't have to convince some body something by word if you can go show for yourself, as long as it's done and kept respectable...

I ain't claiming nothing Goose87 just gotten tired of hearing how everyone is doing it all wrong and he has the only PROPER ONE OUT RCD type dogs.When in reality they've been bred right here in the GREAT USA to do just that for hundreds of years.Hell I moved my program towards the baying type and only have one Ol Rank SOB left cause I got tired of being TIRED running my butt off through HELL but them dogs do exist.I do believe Blackstreak has good dogs as well but they ain't of Biblical Proportions they just big fast rough crossed up dogs and he has plenty of land and hogs to test them on.

Goose87 You're the king of long winded write ups trying to convince folks of all kinda stuff with words so don't try and jump in the middle of this little argument like some kinda moderator just because you ain't the one typing a novel.lol...

Mr Cracker again you are making claims about my dogs that just aren't true.   Most of the dogs I have on my yard are crossed with nothing.      Some are most aren't.   

      And seeing how the curs / bay dogs have been used to catch 1 out for hundreds of years here in the USA and you seem to be such an authority on these 1 out bay breed catch dogs, let's see the pictures of them holding their own good pigs.    Surely you can produce many pictures of these dogs doing their thing since they have been doing it for hundreds of years and you are so familiar with them.   
     I'll post several pictures of several different dogs I have or have had that are doing their thing to back up my claims.    I mean it's hard to be taken serious if you can't substantiate your claims right?

That's 6 different dogs all on big pigs under fare chase conditions.   I got more  pics of different dogs holding their own but I think this illustration of 6 different dogs on big pigs proves I'm not talking theory, I'm fully capable of corroborating with solid proof.           Now, if you being the expert you are on this 1 out cur/bay dog stuff that's been catching 1 out  over hundreds of years, then i expect no less than like pictures of your dogs to back up your claims of knowledge and experience for surely if you have or had dogs that do it then you would have taken pictures of it.     1 out bay breed dogs catching their own big pigs is a rare thing "I" theorize but I don't know, never had or seen one.   But if I did I'd make dang sure I took pictures.     That's like saying i see big foot all the time yet you have no evidence.   (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/b6ee9c4f20e815a530a53a28cac1fc0c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/f17cbf15c13aace8c794da420d75bcab.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/5561bd55988ed44498561670e811de81.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/0f750766dfd928cd3c8dc06b937075ec.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/c25f6080bfd07b3853326c9478e5fc47.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/f90616f17dc18f1f6247548c98ef3cc5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/3aa5c9a743f1fa4f8cfafb9addfc6b22.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/d838766c21b0a67c8e5463bf5def1f44.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/beed545594577438e2b43005b8165618.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/42dd3a48a39fdaf27fd846faa20b2562.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/7bee8acfc6ac62c3a3f5b86efa0ba98c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/6d48ccdec569c014c0c21fc40bb72be3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/d2dec98bf59e936f5b9b22ec87529781.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/99e3d6acb0447cc2d80af7ee02a0d785.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190325/0edb687a172c6ed25b1197d51fd18be6.jpg)

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Some of those catches were finder holder work of one style or another and some were crop work.   Some in the woods, some in the water, some in fields.   Some young dogs some older.     Some male some female.     Some daylight some in the dark. Some in North central Texas, some further west, and some from gulf of Mexico.       

Ignore this "kook" Casey. He is obviously both arrogant and ignorant.

I know Dean your the best and so are your dogs God made yall that way it was Divine intervention.(I am a Christian Man and found this very offensive for some reason).You are right We have been making this stuff up about these Curs forever.Im done argueing with you it's beating the same DEAD HORSE that all your threads and conversations have been forever and I feel like a dumber man for falling into your finder holder trap once again.Keep up the good times out there by YOURSELF BLACKSTREAK....

Hell... I run finder holders. Mine find them and hold them bayed till I get there!

Easy now cracker I'm actually on your side here and the very first hog dog I ever owned myself was a straight catch leopard dog that never bayed a day in his life, he was used as a lead in but my hunting style was a lot different back then and I basically used him as a running catch dog but that was before that term was invented, back then he was just a real rough cur dog, so Im well aware that those type of dogs exist and aren't just a "new" thing , i can also appreciate Black Streaks style of dogs, he's and oddball and so am I, that's why I can understand and interpret his ways, and usage of words, we've had our share of debates in the past until I figured him out ( not saying anything bad about him or his dogs in anyway) I just understand him, we have a lot of similarities when it comes to dogs and how our lives have been shaped by them...


I maybe the "king" of getting long winded but trying to convince someone of something is far from it, I do my best to explain my understanding of something and share my point of view with others but trying to convince another person into something is one thing I'll never be guilty of, kinda like the old saying goes ,"you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink", folks can take what they want from my writings and put it to use or consideration if they want to or joke ,laugh , and snicker via PMs and text messages, I can truly careless, I'm well aware of the knowledge I have and continuing to absorb on a daily basis and what's between my ears about dogs and life in general, and I do not need any type of vindication or validation from anyone anywhere period, by no means am I the smartest man alive or ever will be and will be the first to speak of my own failures and shortcomings, and a moderator I am not, if y'all want to go at each other's throats by golly go for it, all I said is its simple enough to go see something for yourself if you don't believe one way or the other, never pointed a finger at either, Black streak is convinced with his style of dogs and you know what a good one out Florida type dog is capable of, now neither of you are convinced of the others arguments against the opposing style of dogs and the only way to come up with a solution is to roll your sleeves up and see for your self, it's as easy as inviting black streak to bring his dogs into your country and while he's there show him some old school Florida curs and vice Versa, take some of  those Florida dogs to his neck of the woods and show how effective they can be up there, and not just yourself but to anyone who has ever doubted or debated him and his style of dogs, heck I want to go see them in action for myself, not to try and belittle him or prove him wrong, just because I'd like to see different styles of dogs, his choice and use of words may come off a little edgy to some and will be the first to admit I once felt the same way, I hope this wasn't to terribly long winded for you my friend but one last thing I'll add about myself trying to convince others with words is I've always got an open door and food on the table for anyone who wants to come see just what I'm trying to convince others of, I'll never make a claim or anything like that I can't back up when someone thinks they're calling my bluff, take no offense from this post or the last one I made because that was/is not what I intended...

Lol mike holding is holding. I don’t see the big deal I got curs that bay and curs that catch. What ever way works I guess. Heck I just want to hunt anyone want to go holler at me


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Mike I've come to enjoy them kinda finder holder bayed dogs.

Lol Goose87 If Blackstreak or yourself or anyone else ever wants to make a hunt come on down but I dang sure ain't drivin 20hrs over a argument online.

Lmao. WORD


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No one picture from any you big talkers claiming you have 1 out cur dogs?        How embarrassing

Thats how we role ... for MANY reasons, other than its the best and most efficient in all terrain etc.! That said if sh!t hit the fan and i had to only own 1 dog to find and hold/ only hunt out 300 yds id get a good mut like a bird bull etc. However, In that situation id prefer a good cur that would strike and bay, then wait for me shoot over the bay then catch... glad im not poor and i can feed 2 dogs lol Thank u Lord bc my curs will out hunt any rcd

my curs bay, and bay right for me, (work head, dont get cut, stop runners, lots of bottom and hunt). The ones that are straight catch or just to gritty end up dead by 2 yoa or sooner generally, its a common problem were breeding away from but still keeping the lines tight. Im curious how the curs that actually hunt out, then catch or are too gritty, instead of bay, stay alive?

Lol I feel  you brother, I hope no man would ever make a drive 20 minutes much less 20 hours over any argument, now two gentlemen displaying their dogs and their abilities to others who have different styles built for different areas and regions is different, lol, no matter the distance, if it were that important in the first place, I'd sure like to take you up on that offer one day just for the sake of seeing good dogs in different areas and seeing different areas myself, heck I like the adventure as much as the hunt...

Dude ask for some invites to go see firsthand, rest assured the members of this forum who know these dogs exist aren't the only ones down there that hog hunt and that have those types of dogs...

I couldn't imagine running them running catch dogs here where we hunt it would be a night mare hell it might take 45 min or an hour to get around to our dogs they done went half mile they done crossed 3 creeks 3 of worst briar thickets know to man I don't care how good of a holder you got if he has a real good boar hog caught here for an hour before you get there he ain't going be alive no more. Everybody can hunt which ever style you like makes no difference to me either way it would be heck here trying to get to em if they got to far I met guy here he hunts on a club I am in he hunts straight bulldogs and dogos straight catch he catches some hogs but every year he has some bad wrecks to. Here them pretty much straight catch curs was just called rough cur dogs I just learned the term running catch dog when I started reading on here. I prefer them find em and keep em bayed till I get there type myself I hunt a couple that will get real rough on a hog trying to run and they will Bay a pig long as it sits there we hunt few that won't hardly put mouth on a hog bay a 10 lbs pig same way they bay a 400 lbs boar I can leave em bayed over there for 2-3 hours and don't have to worry about a murder scene when I get over there

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As long as more than one man draws a breath on this earth, there are going to be 2 wrong ways and 2 right ways to do everything, lol. I see how offense could've been taken in black streaks writing. I also se the point of both guys here. I believe that certain types or styles are better suited for certain terrain, it's just common sense. I met a fella once that I had a difference of opinion with about bigger catch dogs. He is a dog man by my standards. He was judging a conformation show when I met him. I had some questions for him about the bigger dogs not placing in the show ring when he was done. I wasn't showing, I was actually in looking for new blood to freshen up with. I didn't find it there. Anyway, I didn't like what his opinion of the bigger dogs were at the time but I could see where he was coming from because it had been nearly impossible to find what I was looking for. Long story short, I invited him to come see and hunt with what I felt were the big dogs that he didn't feel existed. Many years later, he has a new respect for the big dogs and I have the same towards the smaller. He has become family to my whole family and even though he's about a 3 day drive away, if he needed something, he knows I'm a phone call away. Goose is right ( I tried not to write that too loud), find the time and go hunt. I don't have to be hostile. Hell, you might even like each other. You might learn something from each other too. As for one out dogs, I have another friend that had some cracker dogs here in Texas. His original old dog was a one out type. He hunted about 4-800 yards out solo and didn't bark when he found hogs. Depending on how you bred you could get the same thing or rough dogs that would bay until they had numbers on their side then catch. For different reasons, these weren't my type of dogs. He was feeding them and he liked them so they were good. They worked for him. I wouldn't have gotten along with them so I chose not to have them. We all have a flavor and sometimes after growing up on homemade vanilla we learn that we might like the chocolate too. Be smart and don't limit yourself.

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Better be careful T-Dog, folks PMs are going to be blowing up and they're going to be talking about you just like they do me, might even lose a little street cred just because you agreed with me lol...

I can’t stand when people pm you cause you don’t agree with them. And they talk like there Jesus Christ try to save you on the Jordan.


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I'll put my 2 cents in on this. I have dogs from Dean. I am also one of the few people on this board that has actually gone up to hunt with him and not just say what his dogs can or can't do. I have hunted a long time with many different types and breeds and styles of dogs. I have seen good and bad of all types and I've hunted all over Texas in all types of terrain. I hunt because I love too and I really love dogs. After hunting with Dean a few times I now own 2 of his dogs. Mine are brother and sister to the red dog, Tuff that is in a lot of his pics. They are very practical and do well in every terrain I've used them on. Extremely athletic. No offense but cur dog's don't even compare athletically. Like NFL compared to high school kids. Hunt hard and catch and hold great.

Also, Dean is a very good guy. I enjoy the hell out his company. I know he comes off not so nice sometimes but I he is a very nice and knowledgeable person. Hell I'm planning another trip up as soon as we can get it worked out.

   Delusion of grandeur is the fixed false belief that one possesses superior qualities such as genius, fame, omnipotence, or wealth. It is most often a symptom of schizophrenia but can also be a symptom found in psychotic or bipolar disorders, as well as dementia.

Narcissistic behavior

I hate to disagree with you Sambo... but you’re comparing a sprinter to a marathon runner. There is no comparison.

I'll disagree with you as well because they are much more athletic and I'm comparing the same thing. These dogs regularly put in 20-30 miles on a hunt. So unless you have ever seen them hunt you don't really know do you. They can go for miles and miles. Talking about sprinting their is no comparison at all. Not even close. These dogs are bigger, faster and stronger than any cur. Hence my comparison of NFL athletese to high school kids. No comparison at all. And yes these can run marathons. Unless you have hunted with them you wouldn't understand either Mike. I'm sorry but you don't.

Mike, I'm not trying to argue with anyone about it. I'm just starting facts from what I have seen first hand. I wasn't saying these dogs at better. Just that they are more athletic in pretty much everyway I can think of. Forget football, how about track? The decathlon in particular. If you made up a hypothetical 10 events for dogs to compete in I promise these would win it. Sure the curs would do better in some parts and the finder holders would do well but over all the finder holders would win on a total point scale.

I give credit and thanks to God on here for the blessings He has bestowed upon me and you guys want to take it out of context and use it to try to belittle me, use it to negativley influences others,  and mock my thanks to The Lord.     Y'all want to belittle God and His blessings, yall want to belittle me, yall want to be experts in dogs you don't have more ever been around.     
   I am thankful I mentioned God and give thanks to Him for it has surely brought out and revealed to many the serpents who hide among use

Not one of you can produce 1 picture that can back up your claims.     None of you who speak against me have ever hunted with me or my dogs yet you make all kind of assumptions and theories and stubbornly defend your assumptions and theorys despite me having disproved them.  Y'all claim to know what is on my yard yet can't even get that right but,  that in your ignorance go on to make claims about what my dogs can or can do.        Y'all speak out of both sides of your mouth.         
       I have more confedence in 1 dog than yall do in your entire packs.    My pictures prove it.   Y'all can't produce pictures like I do because your dogs can't controle a pig like mine do.   Your too scared your dog is gonna get hurt or your gonna loose the pig.        Fact is there is a huge distinction being illustrated here.     Y'all are making claims not one of you can substantiate.      Your dogs are incapable of doing what you claim they can it their would be proof.     Yet I show proof after proof.  It's so easy for me.     The more yall talk and make claims without proof, the more evident it becomes to the wise and those who have discernment that yall are discrediting yourselves. 

How do you two know what myself and others that have posted on this thread have been around? These dogs aren’t anything new... I hunted with several and know lots of other folks who have also over the years. If they worked as good y’all claim, then everyone would use them. Some of just stick to the type of dogs that work anywhere and in any situation.

    What is a sprinter?     A person with a nitch, a short distance fast runner, that's it.     A marathon encompasses many things inrolled into one race.      You sir have dogs with certain niches and it takes multiple dogs with different nitches for you to catch a pig.    First one to find then more to help stop the pig then another to catch.      It takes you a pack / multiple dogs to catch 1 pig
     I on the other hand have the dogs who do not have nitches specific to 1 thing.    They do it all.     They find, catch, hunt a multitude of different ways and environments.       This is much more liking to a marathon runner than a sprinter.    
      Your making assumption that since these dogs are fast and do crop work that they are not able to do anything else.    That just proves your ignorance as I have just shown here by using your own anology.  

   Sir your now using the argument I've been using against yall 
  to desperately try to make your point now that you can't produce evidence to back up accusations and can't block me in.      It's evident by your ignorance and false accusations

Again Mike I'm not getting into what is best or who's dogs are better. I was simply commenting on athleticism. You can turn it however you'd like. But I was talking about pure athletes and these dogs are over all more athletic. You can say anything you want about hunting. I enjoy your dogs and your hunts. I hunt with bay dogs and curs etc as much as my own dogs. I never said they were the best. But I promise they are more athletic and that's a fact.

   To further my previous post showing how your own analogy is completely 180 degrees wrong, I'll also make this point.     I believe it a safe assumption to assume that my dogs hold for many many times longer than everyone else's on a regular basis and do it as shown by themselves.    Yalls dogs don't hold as long and must do it together.        My dogs work in crops, woods, water and brush, year around.     They will catch their own, relay to the other catch when intake possesion of the first catch then when I get to the second catch they role out and go in search for other pigs and catch and hold them.   And again they do this in all environments and often times catch in one environment and role out across water, woods, hills, rocky outcropings, thick brush etc to catch again.      Does this fit the profile of a sprinter or a marathon runner?      I'll let the wise decide for i seriously doubt your bias will allow such acknowledgment and wisdom to infiltrate your thoughts

This would describe well those over and over making claims they can not show proof of.     Thanks for posting

This here topic (which is 100% opinion based) is getting pretty heated! Hey Mike, can we invite Oconee back for a special guest debate???

You are correct. I have pictures of several dogs that are "one out dog". I have pictures of the hogs they have caught. Every dog I have now will catch by themselves in the open like your pictures. There Is no way in your God forsaken hell I'm going to stop and snap a pic three foot from the hog for the interwebz. I AM GOING TO CATCH IT! If anyone did that would be the last time.

No it is not 100% opinion based because 1 side is presenting factual evidence which the other side can neither disprove or produce proof of their own.  Making it 50% opinion based.      
      

   Hahaha.   No sir you do not have what you claim or you could settle down and take pictures.  You would if you could but you can't.  Sorry bud, no proof to support your claims means it's just got air untill you can prove otherwise.     

Lol......good try

On average how long are your dogs caught before you get to em

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LOL..  i sure like that saying on ur avatar man...a dog aint got a chance nowadays...i remember when a feller will tell you more whats wrong with his dogs than whats rite ...hehehe

Man ol Oconee was my buddy that guy was a hoot. I got several of those curs that will catch by them selfs but I don’t have any pics of them I am usually way off from them when they catch out by time I get there they get a blade or I send a cd to em to help till someone can get to em. I hope this don’t make me a liar cuz I don’t have a pic of it. I caught 70 crappie the other day but didn’t get a pic of that ether does that mean I wasn’t even there. The next time I hunt a rough dog and it catches out I will make darn sure I get a pic of it. This thread is just getting good need some more action on the web


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I like them chit eaters you have Mike. You too Jmesonp1.  rolleyes.

Judge peel I sh!t you not, I talked to oconee at uncle earls several times this past weekend and one of the first things he asked me was if you were still on ETHD lol, can't make this stuff up...

Lmao he had a hard on for me for what ever reason. Hell he probably a nice fella idk. He was a hot head the few times I talked to him on the phone tho he would call me after a hot session on here and act like he was look for something then bang go off on me lol. He told me he was 58 yrs old but the pics he had on the net looked 35 lol. He challenged me to a dual one time lol pretty funny guy heck I miss him on here.


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Lmfao, some of his posts would crack me up when i first got on here


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It’s all internet talk guys get all upset heck it’s funny to me but some guys actually think they can say what ever they want and you can’t. Or that what you say don’t add up but what they say is the law. Most are full of there own crap. But there are some good folks on here I have met some real good guys off here some not so good it comes with the territory.


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I brushed it off as a bit of sarcasm, he came and eat some fried fish with us Friday night, I went to get Ed from Tuskers to come eat so we could catch up and oconee was sitting over there and stood up and said "is that goose, heck I'm coming to eat to", that was the scope of our conversation, nobody was talking plotts, so he didn't stay long, aside from his rants he's a pretty decent guy and has good plotts, he's just "very" passionate about them lol...

I think what pissed him off was I told him that a dog don’t have to run a hog for miles to be a good dog. He seemed to know more about me then I did. After that I couldn’t take him seriously.


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If you can’t hunt hogs with it on Saturday and pen cows with em on Sunday. They ain’t no count


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Lol I hear people say that but I never seen a dog run thru cows to bay a hog then come back and bay those same cows at night on command


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 I assure you they exist. If you got any local day hands worth a count, they can tell you the same


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Lol they might be some out there but I ain’t seen it. So your telling me that you got a dog that you can push thru a heard of cattle bay a hog then turn around and bay up the cattle on command. Day hands lie to son I don’t pay much mind to what people say


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The dual purpose dogs definitely exist. I have hunted with them many times but while I've owned and hunted dogs that were very related to them I didn't use mine that way. The reason being is dogs are like kids, even the good ones screw up sometimes. If you are hunting your own property with your cattle on it then I see no problem with it. But if your on someone else's property with their cattle and your bored young dog(s) decides hell there ain't no hog here I'll just bay this set of cows, then things can go south quick. It can happen with a dog that isn't used dually but is usually more tempting for that one that already thinks there's no harm in it. When your 6 or 800 yards away thinking that ole so and so is baying a hog and it's really Ferdinand, it can get western quick fast and in a hurry. I seen it happen first hand more than once. Once they had an 1800-2000# Ferdinand caught. I had a hell of a time getting him legged and thrown by myself. I was the first one in there. These dogs didn't lack handle. They knew what was what, they just had a brain fart and got bored. Or I've seen cattle run at dual purpose dogs like they do so many times. Instead of catching another gear and getting on past them like mine will, they got pissed off and didn't bluff. So then we had cattle bayed. They bunched because they were dog broke but it could've gone from bad to worse if they hadn't been. Plus we were right there when it happened and were able to call the dogs off and it was the other guys cattle. I've also seen dogs that were hog dogs by day and coon dogs by night. It worked well both ways. Super good dog. Heck once I saw him bay a hog that was backed up to a pin oak tree. He would bark a few barks at the hog then look up and bark a few barks. We look up and sure enough he was bayed and treed at the same time one boar hog and one boar coon. I guess he did that on purpose because he didn't want to run back and forth from bush to tree bush to tree so he just moved the boar hog over.

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 He would bark a few barks at the hog then look up and bark a few barks. We look up and sure enough he was bayed and treed at the same time one boar hog and one boar coon. I guess he did that on purpose because he didn't want to run back and forth from bush to tree bush to tree so he just moved the boar hog over.


LOL.... Good one rite there...

Yes I have 2 of them. Another crazy concept but you can still bay hogs like cows. seems far out until you get to see dogs that do it.


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Couple things that allow us to use these dogs without reportable incident. 1. We don’t run off to hunt any old place, all my landowners back home know what my dogs are, their cattle are dog broke and if we were to bay them it ain’t no harm done. The ranch and all the surrounding here in lee county don’t matter cause it’s been dogged for long long time by the guys that brought me around.(hunting with buddies I make sure they understand my dogs do go both ways, they do handle, I’m not going to be responsible for my dog barking twice and calling out and their so called “broke” dog not calling off) 2 our dogs aren’t the least bit rough on anything that wants to stand Bayed, we ain’t chewing up baby calves or ripping leather off the mans best cow. 3. They handle better than most peoples kids. “Get In here” 1 time most days keeps them high and tight till we send them on whatever we’re aiming to bay. 4 we bay and shoot so there’s never a question what we have bayed. I hear horror stories of people sending catchdogs to a cow bayed and all I know is you got to be dumber than the dogs your using to do that


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I ain’t talking bout a dog that will bay hogs or cows I am talking bout a dog you can put on the ground run thru cows Notta bay a hog then on the way back pen cows. I know a lot of old timers that had dual purpose dogs but it goes like this if there where hogs around you might bay them up if there where cows you might get them I ain’t seen one that was just turn out and sent to get hogs and passed up cows might be one out there but I ain’t seen it


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There’s quite a few out there. I’m not talking about cow dogs who trashed or trip on a hog on the way to cows. I’m talk about sure enough nice on hogs and nice on cows and do which ever it is told to do and can switch modes faster than you can change your drawers


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Lol ok kiddo


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That was a chicken number 2 reply. That’s everybodys cop out when the 21 year old knows what he’s talking about and they got to much pride to say it.
 Btw judge, my original comment was a joke, some people have no use for a dog that bays cows, wouldn’t make much sense to have one that would would it? However we do both, both are part of our job, and rather than have 10 dogs that do hogs and 10 that do the cows. We got about 6 or 7 that do both, and both Well. And your mentality is the reason I tell people they are unicorns

Slim...at 21 you might not have the years of experience...but it doesn’t mean a lack of knowledge in any way...at 12 years old I thought I had it going on...I caught lots of game with my pack that I trained myself...

That’s not a cop out if your upset about me calling you a kiddo you need to tighten up your belt life is hard son. Now far as a cop out to you knowing something your dead wrong I have said many times you don’t have to be old to know stuff. I simply said I ain’t seen then like you claim and I know a ton of old cowboys that have penned cattle for 50 plus yrs. but if you can do all that good for you. This is the internet where all hero’s


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well , i use my dogs both ways . if they bay cattle when i'm hog hunting i just let'em get them cattle settled and call'em off . if they bay hogs i do  the same but if they catch a hog while cowhunting i'l work him .


we don't have hogs right here but thats what i do when i go other places .

and i have seen 1 or 2 that would get on a hog track and go right thru a bunch of cattle and vice versa . i have been driving cattle and a dog be leading cattle , smell something in font of him and all of a sudden leave and get bayed on hogs.

Jdt that’s what I was saying


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Back to the subject there was a guy on here I can’t remember his name but he was crossing stag and pits to try to make some rcd I wonder if he ever did he was up north west of Fort Worth


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You may be talking about me Judge. I’m 6 years into the crosses and they’re actually AB/stag. They are a lot of fun to hunt I can drop them out on hogs in wheat fields and they’ll lock in like heat seeking missles. A lot of times pigs will run in with the cattle to try and lose them, but they stay hooked.

Basically they’re extremely fast CDs. Good temperament, prey drive and provide more endurance in a foot race. They are a dog I keep on the rig for certain situations. Some hunts they don’t even get turned out, but when you need them they’re handy. We did our 8th annual veteran hunt in West Texas last month. Caught 36 in two days with 12 of those being caught with the sighthound crosses so you can see they have increased my by about 33%.  They are great about catching their own when dumped and not all piling on one.

I don’t run RCD. I enjoy strike dogs that provide a good bay. Could they find their own hog on the ground? I’m sure they could, but it’s not my style. I’d rather feed a 45lb cur dog for that. Hell we had one baying a 10 pound pig the other day and we were tickled to death. Now if that 10lber was running a mile that’d be a different story......

Oh and by the way I’ve got hundreds of pictures and even videos - I just don’t post them.

Right on sounds like you made what you wanted


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Jsh sounds like them dogs are working out.I know of several people in ga that have similar type crosses they use for sight work night vision, thermal or whatever and have been for many years but like you use trail dogs for trailing.Glad to hear your program is working out.That's a hell of a weekend.

Jsh, do you have any pics of your stag crosses? Or can you describe the physical conformation? How did you breed them as far a stag male to a bulldog gyp or vise vesa, or maybe both? Are they 1/2 and 1/2 or have you gotten them where you think they need to be? Just curious, they sound interesting.

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I’ll try and download Tapatalk and post some pics. I do have pictures of some of them if you look at my old posts. I run 1/2 stag and 1/2 bulldog and also have some 1/4 stag 3/4 bulldog.  The stag blood shows really strong in mine.   The 3/4 crosses are a tad slower but larger and heavier built. Long legged and deep chested. Still plenty fast enough to catch a hog in the open.

Started the original cross with an AB and then started using an old red and white bulldog from South Texas. No fancy pedigrees or anything - just dogs that worked hard and were level headed.

I’ll help ya out a bit with couple links jsh....
I remember you posting about em.
I remember how good looking I thought the cross was when you posted about them.
http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=79704.msg482367#msg482367 (http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=79704.msg482367#msg482367)

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=83659.msg501169#msg501169 (http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=83659.msg501169#msg501169)

Really nice dogs...they look like sighthounds on steroids...

Those are very nice looking dogs. Thanks for the links.

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Those dogs look pretty good


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I run a Bolen Black for my rcd. My boy Bleu!

[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/d5ae8e46e236d23df2dec9edbba1d6ca.jpg


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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/fb68767e5abe640885a6ac494f30967d.jpg)

Sorry I’m still figuring out tapatalk....   


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