EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I know this has come up before, but it seems like the forum has been a little dry lately and I always enjoy reading about the breedings behind dogs, as do others on here. A lot of y’all have dogs you call curs. I’m talking good line bred dogs that are proven dogs that you are breeding and constantly trying to improve. I’m curious as to what makes up the dogs? As in what breeds have you used to make them. Do you have straight BMC, or are you adding Plotts, Walkers, Pits, etc... let’s hear the background on them


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The first real good dog I owned was a dog named Copper a friend gave me as a put he was half Catahoula half English looked a lot like a mountain cur hard hunting always busy and honest not a super nose but good I bred him to 3 good gyps a Red tick  a Doebelly and a gyp latter pulled dna on was English BMC Greyhound mix . Me and my brother have 4 dogs that all go back to the male they all hunt about the same 500-600 yard loops usually further on the first cast and they will get deeper longer you stay all quiet till ones jumped then open but not like a full hound. They don't have super noses I think they can can take a few hour old track and do OK with it they work good where I hunt smaller dogs some black and tan some brindle I may eventually throw a full hound in the mix they hut best in pair's or maybe they have gotten used to hunting that way I don't get to hunt a lot so I try to carry them all when I go .

https://youtu.be/6ucSXcZ4mP4

This is some video of some of my dogs with a couple buddy's and their dogs.

Good looking dogs, and nice back story on them! Hopefully some others chime in and keep it going. I always enjoy hearing the background on everyone’s dogs


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Every dog I have has mountain cur in them...some have 50 percent Pocahontas PLOTT...I can rig them or cast them and road them once the edge is knocked off...the one with the most gold nugget kemmer stock Mt cur is still top dog when it comes to winding abilities and that is a well known trait with that line of dogs ...a few have Florida cur in them

My pot lickers are walker/cat cross with a splash of doughbelly in there. They usually hunt hard except when they don't. I like'em high and tight, fast on track, enough bite to turn one that wants to run but bay at the head. I do like a little stock sense to them. They need to have bottom, brains, and stay to eat my feed. I like an easy handling dog.They will come every color of the rainbow but mostly black/tan, black/brindle, Walker colored, or white with red, orange, yella, or brindle patches. They are quiet unless a hog breaks on them. 100 yards or less of sight of the hog and they are quiet again.

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The 2 brindle gyps are cousins top and bottom, the red dog and the black/brindle trim gyp are litter mates. Black gyp is the mother to the brindle gyp to the left. The cat gyp is a cousin them all several times.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/444531fc6486e70af378e22cd3aa2193.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/69a070e6335f5ce7fa776e64f171cac7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/b5db509f479f9a33d908e2510d413fc2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/15b5b7a34f7d6a9914cc318d8ea85af8.jpg)

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Mnt cur x Stock dog.  I got some fl cur x cat they are very hardy dogs and multiple purpose dog. The mnt cur x stock hunt harder deeper and better bottom but the fl cur x cat I can hunt any where.


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the stock from when I was a kid was just catahoula, later on my uncle had a Australian Shepherd that he would take hog hunting with us sometimes and she was a natural at it just like she was with cows. So we crossed them, that's been around 25 years ago so until about 3 years ago that's all they had in them. I bought out a guy around 5 years ago and he had a silent go ahead plot in the bunch so I bred a bitch to him. They were already good dogs but I like even more what that put in them. If I live long enough later down the road I'm going to breed I little Kelpie in them and then I'm thru. My boys can keep it going like I've got it or they can change it up. The only negative thing I can say about the litter I got out of the plot is that if you come to a place were 3 hogs walked they're not necessarily going to take the hottest track which ever track they put they're nose in first is usually the one they are going to stay with. but usually what ever track they take they will Bay. And don't get me wrong the aren't slow mawling plot they are fast silent.

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Mnt cur pit cross to a Walker hound, then bread a gyp to a cat pit cross. Pretty much dogs with nose bottom drive and hate for a hog. Not the best by any means but get it done pretty regularly.  Need to put some mnt cur or back in em and down the road. All different colors but looks are the same. Got a leopard I want to put in there somewhere haven't decided when or where,she's not suicidal but catches hard every time,with nose ,drive and handle. The mnt cur pit cross line has been around my parts for a while now,guy use to run bears and cats withem.

Nice dogs t-dog

Thank ya

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Good stuff guys, let’s see some pictures of what the end results are with the dogs on your yards now


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This yella dog is my number two dog she is a good grinder and will roll over and over if you don’t grab her. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/ff12470b2eead9cd7e763afa28578f9b.jpg)


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So after downloading tap talk to load pics ...now what . I'm not very electronic lol

If you are on the app you just click the little plus button that is circled, next to where you’re typing, then click the little square with the two mountains at the bottom and attach your photos


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Mine are two different sets, my Shiloh gyp which is the mother to my Ben dog came along as an accident, my best friend Alex Shook is a yellow dog man and became friends with some boys from east Texas that are yeller fellers, well they had a gyp that was a good dog but wouldnt raise pups, so they tried to time the breeding out to put the pups on a surrogate, Shook bred his male Johnny which was a BMC to a Black and Tan coon hound, I got a gyp out of that litter and raised her up and my old male buck, which was BMC got in the pen with her one night and bred her, that accidental litter produced well, just about all those pups made decent to above average dogs, Shiloh came from that litter, I took Shiloh and bred her to a heavy line bred running walker and that's where Ben, Dolly, and Notty came from, those 3 are a little to much on the loose baying side for me so I took Ben back to his mother to put more bay in them, being as Shiloh will get down with it baying and bays like she's trying to smell what he had for supper right up in his face, I have 4 pups off that litter now about 4 weeks old...

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Shiloh and Ben pups, 4 generations deep that I've owned and hunted...

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190411/d6df8b4c6996e5b8e92bb77396342556.jpg)Ben

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Dolly on the right...

My other dogs are what I call my Rob dogs being as they're wrapped up in blood that Mr. Rob Hobgood brought into this part of the country, he never produced any pups himself being as he got out right after he finished and hunted his last set of dogs which he bought from Sam Mason and they were off his old Buster dog, there were two females and a male and they are what my dogs go back to, he never would breed the best female in that trio in fear that she wouldn't be the same caliber of dog once she had pups, all the dogs below are grand pups and great grand pups and so on of the other two that he bred...

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This is my lil girl gyp, she's the cornerstone that I'm breeding these dogs around, she's one of the nicest dogs I've ever hunted with and the best I've ever owned, and she reproduces just as good as she produces pork, she goes back to the Sam Mason dogs and some local bred catahoula stock that originally came from Florida with a splash of Mt. Cur way back on and some local line bred stock curs bred that's crossed into the catahoula stock from Florida, her mother is what I'm actually trying to breed around more so, she was a great reproducer herself...

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This is coal, she's a daughter of lil girl and my Smutt male, this is a special little huzzy right here, she has a nack for finding a hog and getting bayed and has just made some good dogs look flat silly, my father in law has a litter mate sister to her...

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This is Brandy, she's also off Girl, and the same site as the 3 red dogs I posted earlier, this is her first season being hauled and she isn't missing a lick, she got butchered on Christmas Eve and we thought she was dead, she had a punctured chest cavity and I figured she wouldn't want to mess with a hog after that but it didn't phase her a bit...

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Brandies litter mate that another good friend has, he has another gyp mate to them as well that I don't have pictures of, and I've got two more mates a male and female at my place that I don't have pictures of...

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Smutt in the back and Coal in the front,  Smutt and Lil girl are 2nd and 4th cousins on their topside and 4 cousins on bottom side...

I got another female  name Cleo I don't have a picture of that is off Lil Girl and Smutts grandfather.....

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This is Lacy she is Girls first cousin and is the 5th generation I've bred raised and hunted, we have her bred to another first cousin to her, the males mother and Lacies sire were full siblings, and the sire to these pups is 1/2 the family blood, 1/4 catahoula Bay pen dog 1/4 July fox hound, the sire to the pups is a big clean framed dog that I'm hoping will clean the pups up some, I'm not a fan of her frame but I'll be danged if it don't work for her lol, this huzzy is FAST, she will flat blow the doors off most of our dogs but that's only when she's getting up on the hog in the scent funnel and really smelling it good but her downside is she can only run that hard for about 45- 1 hour and she's gassed, as long as she paces  herself right she can push a track fast for a while, my father in law has a male that's off Lil Girls mother and this female sire, making him Lil Girls  half brother/ 1st cousin, being as his sire and girls sire were full
Brothers, Im going to breed to him this year...

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This here is Daisy, she is Smutts first cousin and my Cleo gyps niece and Kin to all the other dogs above in some shape fashion or form within 5 generation or less, she's half running walker half the family blood, I have a male pup right now about 3 months old off Smutt and a close cousin on the walker side to this gyp...

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This is my butter bean gyp, she's full blooded running walker and I bred her to Cajuns old jack dog and have two pups I kept myself off that cross, I'm not sure what direction I'm going to go here and how  going to utilize them in my breedings being as they're an F1 cross themselves and butter bean isn't any kin to any of the other walker blood I've used, the two I kept seem to have some excellent noses on them but aren't as fast as I'd like them to be on track, maybe that will come with mor experience...

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Fritz...

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Older picture of Kate...

Those are sure nice dogs goose. I curious about how your 4 week old pups turn out. Have you shown them a hog yet?

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Well if you count the pieces of pork fat and trimmings I give them the other day then yes lol, but other than that they haven't left their house except to venture around the kennel, I don't show mine a pig until they start wanting to run a piece of game by themselves, that's when the light switch is flipping on from puppy stage to ready to hunt stage, at least in my opinion, I used to be one of those that started messing with pups when they were just weaned and messed a lot of pups up and culled to many that could've been good dogs had I just let them mentally mature, some just do it faster than others,

Dang tapatalk cut me off, I'm excited to see what these do myself, I bred Ben once already to a gyp that's as scatter bred as can get and wasn't really any good, she was ok but just about all those pups have made some decent to nice dogs, so I'm hoping by staying within his immediate family to centralize their genes to attain some consistency...

Pretty cool stuff guys. Goose in particular, it is always fun to see the process where generation after generation of dogs keep doing it. I’m looking forward to seeing the newest set produce for you.


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Lol, I agree with you on the mental maturity goose. I am 7 to 8 generations deep on this family of mine. I make every breeding with the breeding after that in mind. It's always subject to change of course either because of things that happen beyond your control or you find something that needs tweaked. What you said about the scatter bred gyp makes sense too. I hunt mostly females. One because I like hunting females lol, and two because I believe the females are the biggest part of it. One of my very successful mentors once told me that you can breed a super dog to an average female and you would more times than not would get average dogs and poorer. You can breed average dog to a super gyp and you might get a couple real good dogs, a few average, and a couple of culls. I have experienced and witnessed this exact thing in my nearly 30yrs in this sport. The other thing I live by with my dogs is the average. If when I evaluate a litter come time to breed and the siblings to mine aren't good enough for me to feed but mine is a whirlwind, I won't breed mine. The odds of that one reproducing well aren't very high. I don't take anyone's word for what those dogs are doing either. I want to see and evaluate for myself. If 5 people watch the same set of dogs work, its probable that they will have 5 different evaluations. Example: A very good friend has several dogs out of my stuff. Their 2 lead dogs are 5 or 6 and 3. Both dogs flat get it done. They have another one that is about 1 1/2yr old. Everytime I have been with them this young dog hits the ground hunting and is non stop busy busting brush. He's found a few hogs and will always put one up after you catch and bust out a sounder. They made the comment a couple months ago that they just know if he was going to make the grade. I asked why and they said because he just don't strike enough hogs like I want a lead dog to. I told them that he's not much over a year old. If he is cast at the same time as the 2 older dogs and he's beating them to the first strike and bay, then those were the 2 that would need to be questioned. He isn't going to beat 2 dogs of that caliber to a hog first rattle out of the box on a consistent basis. Cast him ahead of those dogs and give him a chance to be lead dog. If he don't bay anything then cast them. His want to is there. He needs a fare chance to get better. This is a good hunter and friend, they just don't quite see the same picture that I do and since I'm breeding for what "I" want, I feel like I need to form my own opinion. Another example: I raised a litter of 6 pups. Kept 2 females, gave a male and female to one friend, and the other 2 males to 2 more friends. One of mine got out and got run over and killed. One of the males was just a country dog. He ran loose all his life. Started himself on hogs. He was always gone hunting and coming home cut or packing baby pigs that he caught. The pair are real nice dogs. The female is the best but the male gets it done too. The last male was a hard hunting, stay put nice  dog. He was the only dog they had pretty much and was already becoming a pretty reliable find dog at a year old. The last time I hunted with him, him and my old gyp took almost 2 hours of hard hunting and digging to find a boar hog. When they finally located at .75 from us, they kept that hog within 30 yards of his bed. He was the only hog around for a good ways. That male got killed soon after that by a freakish little cut. He wasn't stupid or rough, he just got caught. That is what I expect from a litter to be breed worthy. Those dogs are young and as long as they keep seeing hogs they are only gonna get better. Most people like hunting males because they are more attractive to most people plus they don't have to worry about heat cycles etc. It's a lot easier to find a good male to breed to for that reason. A person that has that special gyp isn't as likely to let you breed to her unless your male is "that" dog. Plus I'm in control of what happens to the litter.

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If a fella wants to dig deep enough and learn about mitochondrial DNA then it would be clearer to see why the female has the upper hand when it comes to inheriting certain genes, certain traits are only passed on the X chromosome which is inherited from the mother, but with that being said there are numerous lines out there that have been built with the stud as the emphasis, Larry Parker and what he has built is living proof, I'm like you, I already got 3-4 crosses in mind ahead of time before a littler is born, I have a pedigree explorer on my laptop that i can see the inbreeding coefficients, not that it plays a part in my decision making but it does help me to see what and expect out of a litter based on what I know about the ancestor, I evaluate an entire litter and if it's not a high percentage turn out I want repeat and usually won't keep any of the pups, on Shiloh and Lacy I've owned the dogs behind them for several generations now but have just now gotten to where I'm going to be line breeding, everything else behind them was building the foundation to what I'm about to start centering on, I've made several line bred crosses so far that has produced some really nice dogs, the little black gyp Coal being one of them, and before I breed anything I go see for myself, that's the very reason I place pups with the ones that I do, I know the bar they have set for themselves and if the dog ain't performing up to par they'll call and tell me and ask me to come see for myself before we make the decision to pull the plug...

Great story and pictures goose! I have no truly finished dogs, I’m fairly new to this sport with just a few years under my belt and I was blessed to have a knowledgeable man take me under his wings and give me the opportunity to own some good dogs. I don’t have any finished dogs, but I have some well started dogs that do pretty good and find pigs. My main strike dog out of that group is 1/2 BMC and 1/2 pit. The BMC is his daddy, Ladner bred, cold nosed, open on track, and more bottom than most want. You’ll chase that dog for 12 hours and 10 miles before he gets one of these runners to bay up. The momma was Wooten bred, Old game lines, RCD. There were three litters from that cross and almost every dog turned out good. They’re all silent on track, and straight catch. I have a male and female, the male is my favorite dog. He hangs out within 300yds unless he strikes a track. Normally he won’t go past 800-900yds on one, but I think that’s just because he still needs more time and experience. I had him on easy pigs for a while and he would catch them quick. So I think he’s got the mindset now that if he doesn’t catch them quick he can quit and try for another pig. But he’s really becoming a good dog for me and I will end up breeding off of him. I’m thinking about crossing him with some type of hound to bring out a colder nose and more bottom


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Pretty good read goose sounds like you bout got it figured out

Pretty fitting to the topic, I just picked up this young dog yesterday. He’s a year old, not started. His siblings are making good dogs and he supposedly comes from some pretty good hog dogs. He sure does look good, I hope he turns out pretty decent. He’s Walker x BMC. Looking forward to getting him on some pigs and seeing how he does(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190415/3d535b9249b2b404d76340608563ef9f.jpg)


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Good looking rascal

He sure has some running gear on him. Pics don’t do his size justice. He’s real tall and long with a lot of leg. I hunted with his siblings a little while back and they were already finding and baying pigs at less than a year old. This one hasn’t been started, but I’m hoping he will turn out decent. The litter mates make 1000yd loops and will go a mile or two on a hot track. They’re used to being cast from a boat so idk how it will affect his style since I walk hunt and don’t do any casting. The siblings aren’t rough, almost everything else I have is. I’m hoping he will turn out good and I can just have my dogs stick with him to shut the runners down. My pack is lacking a dog with a lot of bottom, I’m hoping that’s where he can pick up some slack


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HAVE YALL DONE ANY HALF BROTHER HALF SISTER CROSS ? IF SO HOW DID IT WORK . I HAVE DONE THREE NOW AND NOT HAPPY WITH PERCENTAGE OF DOGS TURNING OUT . I BEEN HAVING TWO OUT OF LITTER TURNING OUT . BUT I CAN SAY THE TWO ARE VERY NICE DOGS . BUT IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF WORK FOR JUST TWO DOGS . MY OLD CROSS BEFORE I LINE BREED I WOULD EIGHT OUT OF TEN TO TWELVE MAKE NICE DOGS .THE DOGS IM BREEDING ARE OUT OF MY OLD CROSS.

Black Perry Dogs (UPDATE on 2nd Book!! 60 copies available)
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Our dogs kind of originated here in the thread above. I’m still just trying to keep going what these old guys started. Big e doesn’t hunt anymore with his crawfish business. I hardly hunt compared to what we used to. It’s been fun this spring to really push these pair of young dogs I have and hunt a little. They tap back in on the Jasper side of CB.

I guess if anything to add to the post above, over time I’ve learned a whole lot more about the woodruff side of CB. Where the Jasper dog came from, etc. A whole bunch of best on best, stock bred dogs. Not necessarily one line but from working men all around east Texas, huntsville/Coldsprings specifically. There’s some stock bred type stuff from south and west texas sprinkled in their old stuff and mine now. The old man that I’ve done my last two breedings with has been very enlightening and is true dog man.

The great grand sire to my 7 month olds now was the type of dog that they would drop on some cows that leaked out from the main group. They’d go work that main set then go to him the next day still bayed.

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Boogie was that gray faced dog with EV on his shoulder. We all hunt a bunch of boogie pups now. He was a real solid producer considering he was a male dog.

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I got a new phone so I lost all my old pictures. I had to snipe these from Facebook. Most these dogs are all gone now and hunting the offspring of them. Generally they are black, red and yellow.. occasionally some brindles and Black and Tan on out crosses. Just a bunch of jumbled up stuff to makes some solid dogs that produce for you. Lol



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I really enjoyed reading all about those dogs and the history. A lot of time, effort and thought into all that and making the dogs you feed now. Good luck on this newest set of pups!!


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Tshelly

The black EV branded dogs looks to have seen a hog or 2! :)

Tony do you know the name Andy Walker from the Huntsville area? He may even be over as far as Trinity.

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Lol oh yeah. That was Jett. Stone silent and pretty rough.


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Yeah. Big e raised a few dogs from him a long time ago. They turned into solid dogs. My good buddy just recently married his step daughter. Andy has always had that leopard and cow stock.


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A bunch of those dogs Andy uses are HEAVY doughbelly dogs. Jodi Reat gave him some pups out of his old sister gyp bred to two different males. Both were doughbelly males and sister was out of my old Clyde dog and a doughbelly gyp. Later they did some more breeding together. Jodi has a male now that is probably 3 to 5 years old out of the last breeding they did.

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Ok that makes sense. I know Andy in passing, but always heard good things about his dogs and saw the few that we hunted. I know Jodi a little as well but never hunted with him.

I need to hook you up with my cousin out in Lexington. Him and Clayton hunted around Jodi’s grandpas old place on Saturday and caught 23.



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I know exactly where your talking about. That's a real hoggy area. I'd enjoy meeting and hunting with both of you.

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i don't know whats in my dogs . the young dogs i have are half dr longs line . my original dogs go back thru the old man , bigo , ben jordan and back to the bigboyxblondie cross that ricky driver made years ago . it's been said that bigboy was a woodruff dog , from there nobody knows i reckon .


    i guess they were bred between neibhors that had to have dogs to handle free range cattle and hogs in the woods and keep 2 and 4 legged varmints away , just like my folks had in central florida before 1900 .

Yeah they said those woods were loaded. PM your name and number, I’ll pass it along to my cousin. I only make it over that way sometimes. Nicks ranch is just off county rd 411.


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What are you looking to achieve from adding the kelpie in there, I love to watch a good set of them on some snorty yearlings...