|
Title: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 23, 2020, 05:49:47 pm I have a reg Germain shorthair gyp that I’m thinking about crossing to a hound that i have anyone having any luck out of the bird dog crosses??? I love a crossed dog and thought about breeding her
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 23, 2020, 05:51:15 pm I like big hunting dogs can’t stand something to stand round my feet i think they would be some big hunting dogs for sure
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Cajun on January 23, 2020, 07:30:52 pm What are you hoping to gain by the cross?
Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 23, 2020, 09:36:43 pm What are you hoping to gain by the cross? More drive bottom and a little more nose Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: l.h.cracker on January 24, 2020, 04:22:51 am Imo a good cur or a good hound out does a bird dog every time.Sure a bird dog may bust a lot of bush and run around really fast but they miss a lot.I read that you already hunt Hound x Cur I don't think you'd gain anything by adding bird dog to the mix.I've owned and been around a lot of bird dog crossed dogs and like I said they have a lot of flash but when you put them down with a good cur or hound they don't do the job near as efficient.The right Hounds and the right Curs will also have better noses and more bottom from my experience.This is what I've seen with my own eyes I know lots of people use bird crosses though.
Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 24, 2020, 07:17:34 am Imo a good cur or a good hound out does a bird dog every time.Sure a bird dog may bust a lot of bush and run around really fast but they miss a lot.I read that you already hunt Hound x Cur I don't think you'd gain anything by adding bird dog to the mix.I've owned and been around a lot of bird dog crossed dogs and like I said they have a lot of flash but when you put them down with a good cur or hound they don't do the job near as efficient.The right Hounds and the right Curs will also have better noses and more bottom from my experience.This is what I've seen with my own eyes I know lots of people use bird crosses though. 10-4 i was thinking about the cross because i have a buddy that has 2 bird dog and bluetick crosses and they are possible the 2 best dogs i have Been in the woods with just seems like they just have a edge or something i love my hound crosses just wondering if that cross would add more or not i appreciate your comment The bird dog crosses u hunted with what where they crossed with if you don’t mind me asking????? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: HIGHWATER KENNELS on January 24, 2020, 08:43:16 am My buddy up in Arkansas had two bird dog crosses that I got from him yr before last... They were crossed with walker.. Even though they are two brothers out the same litter,, they were night and day different. One was way hyper and it took me along time and a lot of shock therapy to make him stop babbling when I cut him loose..it was like he was being paroled from prison everytime...Just running not hunting for the first round... Now ,, hunt ,, man them two dogs would cover the country,, not stop until they found something to run... But it took a while to get them focused and trash broke... I don't personally like a hyper dog,,, I believe they take longer to train and for them to learn how to run a track true... As far as nose capability they are hot nosed,,, and barely run a track between their legs,, they would rather drift the track and they would loose it more frequent then my plots... So the plus side to em is they are good hunters,, lots of drive and will cover ground. But to me,, they bay too tight and press hogs that would in other cases bay for my hounds. I ended up not hunting them together after the first 6 months of hunting them.... Now with them separated and hunting together with my hounds ,, they add a little speed to the track and too me,, press my hounds in some cases to push the track alittle faster ... So it helps in certain situations ... Hope that info helps you
Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 24, 2020, 08:52:04 am My buddy up in Arkansas had two bird dog crosses that I got from him yr before last... They were crossed with walker.. Even though they are two brothers out the same litter,, they were night and day different. One was way hyper and it took me along time and a lot of shock therapy to make him stop babbling when I cut him loose..it was like he was being paroled from prison everytime...Just running not hunting for the first round... Now ,, hunt ,, man them two dogs would cover the country,, not stop until they found something to run... But it took a while to get them focused and trash broke... I don't personally like a hyper dog,,, I believe they take longer to train and for them to learn how to run a track true... As far as nose capability they are hot nosed,,, and barely run a track between their legs,, they would rather drift the track and they would loose it more frequent then my plots... So the plus side to em is they are good hunters,, lots of drive and will cover ground. But to me,, they bay too tight and press hogs that would in other cases bay for my hounds. I ended up not hunting them together after the first 6 months of hunting them.... Now with them separated and hunting together with my hounds ,, they add a little speed to the track and too me,, press my hounds in some cases to push the track alittle faster ... So it helps in certain situations ... Hope that info helps you 10-4 thanks for the info are they tight bayed since u split them up??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: TheRednose on January 24, 2020, 10:45:14 am I have hunted with a few pure GSP's and EP's and they are fast brush busting winding fools. Could not put them on a track to save their life like someone else mentioned they would just run off with their nose up to wind something else. They had very good hot noses and had a lot of stamina and heat tolerance but not a lot of bottom as they are very different things. All of the ones I hunted with were on the rougher side and had to learn to bay and a couple didn't and were pretty bad bay busters. One of the ones that did learn was a hell of a dog and was very fast and if you had a spot with a good population of hogs she would find them.
I think it all depends on how you want to hunt. I could see how the bluetick crosses would be good if they mixed right I could also see how that cross go really wrong, when cross breeding like that it is a roll of the dice. Also with a cross like that with two very different types of dogs you would want to keep the whole litter so you can make sure that you keep the right one if it is born. Just some thoughts. Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 24, 2020, 10:48:18 am I have hunted with a few pure GSP's and EP's and they are fast brush busting winding fools. Could not put them on a track to save their life like someone else mentioned they would just run off with their nose up to wind something else. They had very good hot noses and had a lot of stamina and heat tolerance but not a lot of bottom as they are very different things. All of the ones I hunted with were on the rougher side and had to learn to bay and a couple didn't and were pretty bad bay busters. One of the ones that did learn was a hell of a dog and was very fast and if you had a spot with a good population of hogs she would find them. I think it all depends on how you want to hunt. I could see how the bluetick crosses would be good if they mixed right I could also see how that cross go really wrong, when cross breeding like that it is a roll of the dice. Also with a cross like that with two very different types of dogs you would want to keep the whole litter so you can make sure that you keep the right one if it is born. Just some thoughts. Good points but tour right i would b keeping the whole litter and keeping what would work n culling the bull crap Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 24, 2020, 10:53:11 am The 2 bird dog blue tick crosses i spoke of it don’t matter the terrain or amount of hogs put them on a cold track and they will show him to u stuck with one until he is bayed great noses n won’t touch a hog unless he won’t stop i told him he got lucky to get 2 like that out the same litter lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: TheRednose on January 24, 2020, 12:37:34 pm The 2 bird dog blue tick crosses i spoke of it don’t matter the terrain or amount of hogs put them on a cold track and they will show him to u stuck with one until he is bayed great noses n won’t touch a hog unless he won’t stop i told him he got lucky to get 2 like that out the same litter lol Quick thought don't know if it is possible or not but since you really like those dogs can that exact cross be done again? Or even breed to one of them? Just some more thoughts. Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 24, 2020, 12:41:13 pm The 2 bird dog blue tick crosses i spoke of it don’t matter the terrain or amount of hogs put them on a cold track and they will show him to u stuck with one until he is bayed great noses n won’t touch a hog unless he won’t stop i told him he got lucky to get 2 like that out the same litter lol Quick thought don't know if it is possible or not but since you really like those dogs can that exact cross be done again? Or even breed to one of them? Just some more thoughts. Yes the cross could be made again and yes i could breed to one of them if i wanted 2 just wondering if it was just the blue dog being thrown in there or if i could go with a walker and get the same results just want to see if i could breed something different and get the same results i have a bird dog and cat pup on the way also Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: HIGHWATER KENNELS on January 24, 2020, 01:15:39 pm My buddy up in Arkansas had two bird dog crosses that I got from him yr before last... They were crossed with walker.. Even though they are two brothers out the same litter,, they were night and day different. One was way hyper and it took me along time and a lot of shock therapy to make him stop babbling when I cut him loose..it was like he was being paroled from prison everytime...Just running not hunting for the first round... Now ,, hunt ,, man them two dogs would cover the country,, not stop until they found something to run... But it took a while to get them focused and trash broke... I don't personally like a hyper dog,,, I believe they take longer to train and for them to learn how to run a track true... As far as nose capability they are hot nosed,,, and barely run a track between their legs,, they would rather drift the track and they would loose it more frequent then my plots... So the plus side to em is they are good hunters,, lots of drive and will cover ground. But to me,, they bay too tight and press hogs that would in other cases bay for my hounds. I ended up not hunting them together after the first 6 months of hunting them.... Now with them separated and hunting together with my hounds ,, they add a little speed to the track and too me,, press my hounds in some cases to push the track alittle faster ... So it helps in certain situations ... Hope that info helps you 10-4 thanks for the info are they tight bayed since u split them up??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 24, 2020, 01:17:22 pm My buddy up in Arkansas had two bird dog crosses that I got from him yr before last... They were crossed with walker.. Even though they are two brothers out the same litter,, they were night and day different. One was way hyper and it took me along time and a lot of shock therapy to make him stop babbling when I cut him loose..it was like he was being paroled from prison everytime...Just running not hunting for the first round... Now ,, hunt ,, man them two dogs would cover the country,, not stop until they found something to run... But it took a while to get them focused and trash broke... I don't personally like a hyper dog,,, I believe they take longer to train and for them to learn how to run a track true... As far as nose capability they are hot nosed,,, and barely run a track between their legs,, they would rather drift the track and they would loose it more frequent then my plots... So the plus side to em is they are good hunters,, lots of drive and will cover ground. But to me,, they bay too tight and press hogs that would in other cases bay for my hounds. I ended up not hunting them together after the first 6 months of hunting them.... Now with them separated and hunting together with my hounds ,, they add a little speed to the track and too me,, press my hounds in some cases to push the track alittle faster ... So it helps in certain situations ... Hope that info helps you 10-4 thanks for the info are they tight bayed since u split them up??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 10 i gotcha yours big houndy dogs or compact? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: l.h.cracker on January 25, 2020, 06:26:13 am Imo a good cur or a good hound out does a bird dog every time.Sure a bird dog may bust a lot of bush and run around really fast but they miss a lot.I read that you already hunt Hound x Cur I don't think you'd gain anything by adding bird dog to the mix.I've owned and been around a lot of bird dog crossed dogs and like I said they have a lot of flash but when you put them down with a good cur or hound they don't do the job near as efficient.The right Hounds and the right Curs will also have better noses and more bottom from my experience.This is what I've seen with my own eyes I know lots of people use bird crosses though. 10-4 i was thinking about the cross because i have a buddy that has 2 bird dog and bluetick crosses and they are possible the 2 best dogs i have Been in the woods with just seems like they just have a edge or something i love my hound crosses just wondering if that cross would add more or not i appreciate your comment The bird dog crosses u hunted with what where they crossed with if you don’t mind me asking????? I have hunted with Bird/Bulls, Straight Birddogs,Bird/hounds and Bird/cur/Hounds.Lots of people use them in the southeast.The Bird dog was very evident in all of them they hunted at a very fast pace.I am sure that there are some really good ones out there and you could catch hogs with the ones I owned and hunted around but I personally feel a good Cur or Hound will generally out trail out last and out bay the average Bird cross.Not by any means putting your buddies dogs down cause I'm sure they'd blow the doors off my junk also not telling you what to do just telling you what I've seen.I do know a guy that has a bird/walker that claims he's the best dog to ever hit the dirt but have not yet hunted with him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: HIGHWATER KENNELS on January 25, 2020, 06:34:50 am My buddy up in Arkansas had two bird dog crosses that I got from him yr before last... They were crossed with walker.. Even though they are two brothers out the same litter,, they were night and day different. One was way hyper and it took me along time and a lot of shock therapy to make him stop babbling when I cut him loose..it was like he was being paroled from prison everytime...Just running not hunting for the first round... Now ,, hunt ,, man them two dogs would cover the country,, not stop until they found something to run... But it took a while to get them focused and trash broke... I don't personally like a hyper dog,,, I believe they take longer to train and for them to learn how to run a track true... As far as nose capability they are hot nosed,,, and barely run a track between their legs,, they would rather drift the track and they would loose it more frequent then my plots... So the plus side to em is they are good hunters,, lots of drive and will cover ground. But to me,, they bay too tight and press hogs that would in other cases bay for my hounds. I ended up not hunting them together after the first 6 months of hunting them.... Now with them separated and hunting together with my hounds ,, they add a little speed to the track and too me,, press my hounds in some cases to push the track alittle faster ... So it helps in certain situations ... Hope that info helps you 10-4 thanks for the info are they tight bayed since u split them up??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 10 i gotcha yours big houndy dogs or compact? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: t-dog on January 25, 2020, 07:42:50 am I have had very similar experiences as everyone else. I had a walker bird dog cross once. He would find hogs, he bayed semi loose, hunted really hard, and would go all day. His draw back was the rocket shoved up his butt. From the time he hit the ground he had the gas mashed to the floor. He found hogs but I don't think he ever found hogs close to where he was cast. He was moving so fast that he would run right past hogs that were right there. Multiple times other dogs would bay hogs in an area that he had already been. Others I've seen would zig zag hunt. I don't like that. I prefer a dog that circles. In my opinion they cover more ground and more thoroughly. Many of the bird dogs are very catchy. I know that some competition coon hunters put about 1/4 to an 1/8 bird dog in some walkers to speed the walker up even more and create a dog that would tree faster. Faster treeing because they were high headed and winded more. They were gonna mess with trying to push a track if they didn't have to. I haven't hunted with any of them so can't attest to the caliber of dogs they were. There are some good crosses out there. If I were gonna make that cross, I would be looking past the F1's and more towards the F2 or F3 cross. I would also put the bird dog on the top side over a really tight bred gyp of your choosing. JMO
Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 25, 2020, 07:52:37 am Imo a good cur or a good hound out does a bird dog every time.Sure a bird dog may bust a lot of bush and run around really fast but they miss a lot.I read that you already hunt Hound x Cur I don't think you'd gain anything by adding bird dog to the mix.I've owned and been around a lot of bird dog crossed dogs and like I said they have a lot of flash but when you put them down with a good cur or hound they don't do the job near as efficient.The right Hounds and the right Curs will also have better noses and more bottom from my experience.This is what I've seen with my own eyes I know lots of people use bird crosses though. 10-4 i was thinking about the cross because i have a buddy that has 2 bird dog and bluetick crosses and they are possible the 2 best dogs i have Been in the woods with just seems like they just have a edge or something i love my hound crosses just wondering if that cross would add more or not i appreciate your comment The bird dog crosses u hunted with what where they crossed with if you don’t mind me asking????? I have hunted with Bird/Bulls, Straight Birddogs,Bird/hounds and Bird/cur/Hounds.Lots of people use them in the southeast.The Bird dog was very evident in all of them they hunted at a very fast pace.I am sure that there are some really good ones out there and you could catch hogs with the ones I owned and hunted around but I personally feel a good Cur or Hound will generally out trail out last and out bay the average Bird cross.Not by any means putting your buddies dogs down cause I'm sure they'd blow the doors off my junk also not telling you what to do just telling you what I've seen.I do know a guy that has a bird/walker that claims he's the best dog to ever hit the dirt but have not yet hunted with him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Aw man ur option and experience with them is greatly appreciated that’s why i mad the post because i know someone has either had some or hunted with some lol I’m in south arkansas and we have a lot of cut overs pine thickets and rough hunting some spots are loaded with hogs and some of a dog doesn’t get gone and look for a hog u will hunt all day and not catch a single one so i can see how this cross could help or hurt me just from everyone input Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 25, 2020, 07:56:19 am I have had very similar experiences as everyone else. I had a walker bird dog cross once. He would find hogs, he bayed semi loose, hunted really hard, and would go all day. His draw back was the rocket shoved up his butt. From the time he hit the ground he had the gas mashed to the floor. He found hogs but I don't think he ever found hogs close to where he was cast. He was moving so fast that he would run right past hogs that were right there. Multiple times other dogs would bay hogs in an area that he had already been. Others I've seen would zig zag hunt. I don't like that. I prefer a dog that circles. In my opinion they cover more ground and more thoroughly. Many of the bird dogs are very catchy. I know that some competition coon hunters put about 1/4 to an 1/8 bird dog in some walkers to speed the walker up even more and create a dog that would tree faster. Faster treeing because they were high headed and winded more. They were gonna mess with trying to push a track if they didn't have to. I haven't hunted with any of them so can't attest to the caliber of dogs they were. There are some good crosses out there. If I were gonna make that cross, I would be looking past the F1's and more towards the F2 or F3 cross. I would also put the bird dog on the top side over a really tight bred gyp of your choosing. JMO Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk That’s understandable there my buddy said they crossed with a blue dogs because crossing with a walker made them 2 hot was like fighting fire with fire said u have to water the bird dog down that’s why he chose the blue dog Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Reuben on January 25, 2020, 09:46:35 am Quick23 that is good logic...the bluetick would be a better choice with German Shorthair...the GSH preferably out of hunting stock or one that is from the NORTH AMERICAN VERSATILE HUNTING DOG ASSOCIATION...
https://www.navhda.org/ That association copied off of the original German association but not as radical... Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on January 25, 2020, 09:48:10 am Quick23 that is good logic...the bluetick would be a better choice with German Shorthair...the GSH preferably out of hunting stock or one that is from the NORTH AMERICAN VERSATILE HUNTING DOG ASSOCIATION... https://www.navhda.org/ That association copied off of the original German association but not as radical... 10-4 im gonna check into that Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: make-em-squeel on January 28, 2020, 02:11:16 pm I used to have a good GSP BMC cross, imo cross it to a cat or bmc, or something quiet that bays right, good bird dogs have all the hunt and nose, add a good bay style to them and hope their not to gritty. good luck
Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: t-dog on January 28, 2020, 04:15:23 pm I had a Vizla one time. Hunted pretty good and found hogs but was a poachers dog. You didn't know where he was if you didn't have a tracking collar on him. He wouldn't bark but once every couple minutes. The rest of the time.he was pointing at it.
Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: make-em-squeel on January 28, 2020, 04:31:24 pm I had a Vizla one time. Hunted pretty good and found hogs but was a poachers dog. You didn't know where he was if you didn't have a tracking collar on him. He wouldn't bark but once every couple minutes. The rest of the time.he was pointing at it. Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk agreed the 2 or 3 i was around hunted great but would point to much, one crossed up with a bmc was awesome bay dog though. The others would point to much without another dog there. But tons of hunt and SILENT... Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on February 01, 2020, 09:21:42 pm I used to have a good GSP BMC cross, imo cross it to a cat or bmc, or something quiet that bays right, good bird dogs have all the hunt and nose, add a good bay style to them and hope their not to gritty. good luck Thanks for the info! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on February 01, 2020, 09:22:45 pm I had a Vizla one time. Hunted pretty good and found hogs but was a poachers dog. You didn't know where he was if you didn't have a tracking collar on him. He wouldn't bark but once every couple minutes. The rest of the time.he was pointing at it. Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk I figured u might run into them pointing at hogs lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Title: Re: Bird dog Post by: Quick23 on February 01, 2020, 09:25:11 pm I had a Vizla one time. Hunted pretty good and found hogs but was a poachers dog. You didn't know where he was if you didn't have a tracking collar on him. He wouldn't bark but once every couple minutes. The rest of the time.he was pointing at it. Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk agreed the 2 or 3 i was around hunted great but would point to much, one crossed up with a bmc was awesome bay dog though. The others would point to much without another dog there. But tons of hunt and SILENT... Thanks for the info Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |