EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Anyone still running pure AB as catch dogs. If so what line/breeder are still being used. If you have any please post pictures and line or who produced them. Thank you.

Let's see some pics of what you consider a PURE American Bulldog

This trend wasn’t started to debate on AB being PURE. You can start another thread on that if you like. What was ment to have been said was dogs that were still AB and not have current crosses in them. Dogs from old lines that were used for catch work before. If there is anyone still using them. (Hines, Dorsey, Scott, LeClerc, screaming Eagle, ect)

10 4  Don't know anything about any of those Pure American Bulldog breeders.  I have however fed a few old timey "White Bulldogs" that were bred specifically for the purpose of "working", catching included. Still feed an old Cur that is probably better than 60% of that old blood. Not smart enough to post pics though

I have an AB in the house. Still a pup well a big pup now. I bought him for the misses so she will quit taking to the dogs she’s not suppose to. I bought him with the intention of letting him catch a hog or 2 and then seeing what he does in the NKC show ring and the future plan to buy bitches to use as catch dogs and keep a line going. Mine is Scott type but is from Joshua kennels here in Florida. My plan was to acquire males from one kennel and bitches from another. Alan Scott is still active in the bulldogs.

I wish it was easier to find some of them ole white dogs you speak of. Alabama and Georgia are good places to find them I just haven’t yet. The best working/performance AB originates from them ole white dogs you speak of.

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Less then a year. I’d have to find his paperwork to know for sure but still squats to pee as you can tell. Solid 70# right now and still growing

I’ve had Joshua dogs in the past. My first bulldog was a Joshua dog( 15 years ago). He was a great catch dog. Second and third did turn out for me. Good luck with that boy. Hope he works out for you. Thank you for posting.

Yes, they are a few of us that are still using them. Some of us have been using them for several years and are several generations in breeding ABs for catchdogs


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TNT what are you using ?? If he doesn’t work out it’s not a big deal for me because he is doing exactly what I got him for and the misses loves him to death. I myself have always been curious how many of these big breeders still have what a bulldog is suppose to be or have they shifted so much to the show ring most are no longer what they should be. So he is my first in trying to figure that out and if not well I reckon the misses has one hell of an expensive lap dog.  I have a few things I already don’t like about him and something I was also curious about there over all health in general or is the pool so small in some types those issues are going to be there.

IMO, the gene pool in ABs isn’t that small in either type. Not all pedigrees are accurate. Other breeds have been added by some but it is not reflected on the pedigree itself.


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I’m in my second generation of Jam Up Bulldogs. I’m overall happy in what I have currently. And your right not many ppl testing their bulldogs before breeding them. That is the reason for my post. I want to see if anyone else out there is putting these dogs to the test. I only know of a select few.  As far as health issues. Some have them because it’s hard to find dogs that are from working stock and from ppl that aren’t lying about their paperwork. (Adding pit, catahoula, mastiffs  ect. And still call them AB)  So it’s hard to find suitable outcross. Also the show ring and fame has ruined a lot of the breed. Starting with Mr Johnson D. It all started when the price for pups began to skyrocket. Most hunter aren’t looking to spend 1k + for a pup that may get killed on his first rank hog. But show ppl don’t mind and breed their champion cur for a profit.

Do you currently use them? If so what line/lines did you start with and do you have pictures of them doing bulldog work?

had good luck with Scott  bred AB's personally

Yes, I’m still using them. Lines: BamaBoy thru True Grit and JEL, Stover, Hines, old Painter/Scott, and Florida Panhandle dogs. Yes I have pictures. As a side note, Tico has been a friend of mine for 17-18 years now


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you will find some good guys on this board that did or are still using abs in the woods. i used em for over 20 years but havent  hunted in a few years now and am down to one old bulldog thats goin on 10. and hes a straight bred standard dog and i also owned and used his grt grt grandmother over 20 year ago also. ive used and hunted behind a bunch of different abs over the years both standard and hybred in lineage. owned a bunch of the things over the years. you will find some good ab guys  on here.  i also owned and printed the american bulldog review magazine the last years it ran and i judged a aba ab  show last fall.

TNT you didn’t mention what line yours were ?? Thanks in advance

i would post some pictures but they froze my photo bucket account  and i dont even know if i can post thru files on my computer to here.

Use postimages. It a better host and I think much simpler for pics on forums

Hello scott. We have spoken in the past back in July 2019. You told me about about 3 potential studs you were going to breed to that young gyp. I got your information through Tico. Most of my bulldogs have Peach in their ped. Dont know if you remember speaking to me. My name is Tony.

Thank you for your reply Gary. What line where those bulldogs originated from that you use to hunt with? I will try to find that Magazine. I love to read about the breed.   

Im in my second generation of Jam up Bulldogs (most goes back to Hines with). You can look me up in Instagram TNT_Bulldogs for pictures and more info.

I’ll have to see if I can’t find someone with social media. I don’t do the whole social media stuff. I get on a few forums and that’s the extent of my socialness. I appreciate the responses gentlemen. Are you fellers out towards the west ??

california here. and i actually sell the old back issues of the magazine going back to its start in 1989. i had all kinds of stuff. bama boy grand daughter, coboy son and daughter as well as cowboy grandson, josh  daughter, straight kershner female, matt boyd stuff, i used koa in my little program  etc etc

Sorry for the dumb question but what magazine do you speak of? I love reading the old magazine. So much knowledge is lost with every generation that leaves us. I have hoards of old magazines wish I had the room to go threw them all and organize the way I would like..... hell before you know it it will be hard to find an all white dog the way I see some headed now. I just wish you could go to a show ring and those dogs be the same one we use to get our job done but they are really 2 separate worlds no matter how good a sales men the breeder is.

Gary owned the American Bulldog Review


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Tony, just waiting on the gyp to come in. You are first on the list for that breeding


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its been a few years but dave pope flew down here to california from alaska, hunted 3 nights while here and on the next day he showed his female polar with staples  in her from a hog on saturday night and she won best female in show or best in show. i cant recall now. my max dog won best in show then that evening won a catch dog comp too. so it can be done,lol

I never said it couldn’t be done and knowledge I just wasn’t aware of. I’m sure it was more common in days past more so then today’s times. But that’s really with a lot of animals and not just these. So are the average cost of a pup roughly what you would expect to pay calling a bigger breeder ?? Just being curious I don’t need an exact number blasted. Good to know I could have researched a little harder and found more options for stock.

i was just giving a couple examples. i would say typically you are gonna pay top dollar from well known or popular breeders for ab pups. when i got into abs it wasnt for catch dogs it was because the breed interested me. myself , to pay over 500 bucks for a pup to be a catch dog isnt what i would do. if your main focus would be as catch dogs then i would look up someone like scott on here or britt or others who frequent here. its like any breed, you find good and bad in cheap ones and in pricey ones.  i remember when i first looked into abs that a pup for 350 bucks wasnt high dollar for one and for that same price  you could buy a finished strike dog here in california.

dave pope gave me his sam dog years ago that came from lem. he was cowoy and possum and he was a jam up woods dog untill i had to put him down at nine plus years due to cancer. old sam could never pass hip certification but he also never went lame on years of hard hunting either.    i had a josh daughter from dave also whos moma was off of cowboys  brother. she was ok but thats all. i had a cowboy grandson bred by darren jones who produced cowboy  and bosco was a good one but died early from eatin bungee cords.  i also had a cowboy daughter / bama boy grand daughter bred by darren. so i liked the sand valley blood but alsolike hte only joshua bred dog i had too.

I'll say this for Britt, my nephew recently got a pup from him. That little dude is right. He has a great confidence in everything he does. He has brains to spare, a major people dog, and good prey drive to go along with a nice athletic build. It's a long road from here to being a catch dog but he definitely has the ingredients and Britt has a lot of his dogs scattered about catching hogs for people.

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These are mine sir and dam. I had a deposit on a different breeding but she didn’t take I believe. I’m pretty pleased with him so far. I just looked at his puppy papers he’s 10 months. I honestly don’t know I’ll be able to let him catch a hog now I would have to cull the misses if something happened to that damn dog. Haha but I honestly think he would take right to it and I think his wind could be built to my satisfaction. I can tell you know don’t rough house the misses if he’s out. Haha I really got him because I’ve always had an interest since I was a kid but they were clearly out of reach and last year I was getting pups for my chicken yard and she started to try and take to some and I had to educate her a little that it wasn’t a good idea to start liking them yet. So I talked her into a bulldog and I would let her have it in the house. Now I would like to add a few more and keep a line going as I know multiple people that would dang sure use one but are like me most of my life. Couldn’t justify the $$$ well I’m not getting any younger and the breeders aren’t either so I bit the bullet. Your going to have to pay to play. My biggest thing would be though I want the same dogs anchoring hogs or rank cows to be the dogs that can get the wins to national champion. But you have to have a sight and a plan or really what’s the purpose!?!?

Hey Gary how have you been? I remember the Bosco dog from that hog catch / conformation show in AZ years ago, He was a beauty. Truly miss the old style shows. I haven't been to one since they stopped the working side. Hope all is well my friend

I have two questions. One is why did y'all choose the AB's instead of another breed or crosses? Two what do y'all look for or expect from a "catch dog"?

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im good, hope the same for you. i kinda fell out of the bas not too long after that myself as i lost my max dog and some others and the show scene kinda fell apart on this side of the country. but i have one old guy left whos caught a few in the woods and i went and judged a aba show last fall in nor cal too. you still have dogs?

i just kinda fell into usin em as catchdogs i guess. i was allready hog hunting with dogs  when i got my first american bulldog. my wife was wanting a rottweiler and i had had game bred dogs for some years . so we split the difference  and got a american bulldog,lol. one thing led to another and i got into the abs and soon took a male who wouldnt pass hip certification huntin. well that was so much fun  i started keepin some just to hunt with as well as the show stuff , protection etc.

i want em to hit the ear and hang on,lol. controllable dog aggression i can take but prefer zero but they are bull dogs. athletic enough to keep up on a long hunt and get the job done. i prefer they grab an ear and lay up on the hog.  and i wanted em cow broke too.

I hunted with Dogos for a couple of years. The good ones were good but the cull rate was too high. I had a quality APBT that was really nice, but I prefer a bigger dog. I fell into the ABs, they suited me. As far as what I expect from a catchdog... biddable, with good wind and athleticism. Temperament-can be handled and take corrections from anyone in the hunting party. Catch and stay hooked until I remove him. To me, that’s just the basic requirements.


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I like the pits and the Americans both. I too like bigger dogs but not the oompah loompah types. Both breeds have a lot to offer but if I had to run pure, or full blood it would be the American. I love the crosses the most. When you get the best of both worlds it's really hard to beat. The pit has exceptional athleticism and overall hardness. The American has size, willingness to please, and they don't get what I call the adrenaline block (my term) that so many pits get when the on switch is on. You can turn their on switch on and they still have the ability to think on their feet. I like the Scott's type dogs. 65 to 85 or 90 pounds of NFL linebacker types (fast, physical, and smart). Good wind and a quiet disposition are so important too. I have learned that the quicker a dog shuts up and settles down after a catch the more hogs you will catch in a day with it. They regain their composure and wind quicker. JMO

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Hi, Tony, I don’t know if I’ve met you before officially.

I’m Obie Semmes.

I saw a hunt on here with you a few months ago it seems. I think it was with Mike? I think I know your wife Toni. I was one of the sponsors for Toni and Christine’s ab show in Arkansas in 2006 or 07. My name is one listed on back of the show shirt under sponsors.

Man!.... those two ladies really know how to throw a party! Lol

One of the funest shows I ever attended. Bulldog folks from all over the country commandering a hotel and a little bar across the street for two nights unexpectedly and I bet they still talk about it in that town. We partied for two days. Even had the cops called at 2-3 in morning because of the midnight bite club in the hotel parking lot catching dogs with the bite sleeve before they left!

Whew what a memory!

Anyway....

I owned a bulldog named grits that was a supreme grand champ.
He was an awesome dog. He was out of Eli (cowboy son and josh brother) and possum on sire side bred to a fully Bully from Chicago.
He caught first hog he ever saw and when they met in the middle of that pen in Georgia it sounded like a bomb went off. That dig just had it in him and many witnessed it and said the same. That started my passion for hog hunting.

Grits was a beautiful dog that caught well but was one and done. Just couldn’t breathe and reccouperate fast enough I reliezed after really getting into woods hunting years later.

I owned a josh/Sheba female I bought from lem. Her name was Shasta. She is on his website somewhere or was.. I raised her showed her to champion. Ofa’ed her hips and she came back excellent. I then sold her back to lem for same price I bought her for. He bred her... just just wasn’t my cup of tea. A little timid but I really hated her crooked bite the most. Very undershot and wry. Don’t know how she championed out?!? Maybe cause everyone knew who her breeder was. Lol

Imported a Joshua hybrid from white bandits in Germany. Lems cousins. Dog was athletic beautiful big and strong. Her name was trouble. I prelimed her hips and they were good. But as she grew she became insanely dog aggressive and then old people and children aggressive and at 18 mos the writing was on the wall and I put her down.

The next ab I got was a kinghaven dog. Long story short I’m still breeding on her today. Great temperament. Caught hogs in the woods well. Just great all around dog. Didn’t breathe quite as well as pits but decent. She died few years ago.

I imported a true grit bama boy breed dog from Sweden. Showed her to champion. Got wp3 title on her. Put her in hogs in the wild and pens. Ofa’ed her hips. She ended up a curr and a cull in the end.

I have had half dozen others I won’t name as well just out of respect and because I’m tired of clicking these buttons. But you would know the lines and the breeders.

In the end I, for my personal opinion, thought the ab was lacking for being the perfect catchdog. I know this is a blanket statement and there are plenty out there that make the grade. Scott is a great friend of mine and I have been hunting with him more than once and he produces hog dogs that he loves and the folks that get him from love.
 
Tico, Britt, and many others as well. I just don’t know em like I know Scott.

I just thought the ab overall lacked wind and endurance on a long hot Louisiana hunt. I struck out and am still breeding these mutts I got. The last beeeding I did was 5/8ab 1/4pit and 1/8cat.

I ain’t saying they worth a crap. But the folks that got em like em.

They mutts and they free when I breed which is rarely and I do it cause I like too and I got blood from two of my favorite dogs of the past around and things do remind me every day of those two dogs.

Btw....in all these years I’ve never sold a bulldog period. Probably spent 20-30k on showing testing buying and training em tho. I guess a sucker born every day lol

... I must also say I wouldn’t take a cent or a second back!

Traveling to 6-7 shows a year with a family in tow and raising my kids around dogs and different training from elementary school age and woods hunting with them thru middle and high school years sure has helped me make them into great young adults!

...and changed the sorry trajectory my life was in as well before the bulldog bug bit me!

Best darn money I ever spent lol

I like the size of those ab there just not practical enough for me. There great on the hog for those that make the grade. A much better choice then a dogo imo. Those big catch dogs to me struggle in creeks and steep banks. They also get hung up time after time in the under brush. If there not extremely well handled they will pull you every which way. Then on top of that they eat a ton and number 2 a ton. It’s a better fit for me to have a couple 40 lb pits. They are a very good choice of dog tho and a lot of them are built very well


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Yea things are good and I seem to always keep one or two dogs around. Been doing Bullhead, Kinghaven ABs x Chinaman APBTs for more than 10 years. I like the 3/4 AB 1/4 APBT, They got the athletic ability and wind but have a better handle than those APBT sisters I had. I try to get out hunting but the guys I used to go with down in Florida don't get out anymore. Looking for a new spot. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/search.html?s=plugugly

IM IN SOUTH FLORIDA.

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Anybody breeding AB’s that look like this Ranger dog........ that catch like the HinesSnowbird/Dorsey’s Flash female? Impressive!
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I’m certainly not an expert on AB bloodlines. I’ve hunted with some nice AB’s. I love their catch & control style. I haven’t seen one that can breath good enough to hunt much in these Texas summers. My main catch dog now is a 3/4 Bulldog 1/4 Staghound. She’s a solid catch dog with an awesome temperament & handle. I recently started hunting off a horse and she’s transitioning to walk with me off the lead to the bay. She’s got brains & I love her.
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Caught a lot of good hogs with her grandma that was a pure bred Standard/Scott type AB. She was a real solid dog as well.
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Shotgun, that's the kind of handle I like in a catch dog. I hunt my current catch dog off leash.

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 good lord would i have loved to have a bulldog i didnt have to lead that would only go to the bark on command. you must be a good trainer t and also have trainable dogs.  good job man. ive seen one on a tv show that belongs to a guide service in florida. a blue apbt.

Gary it's more smart dog with good disposition than it is good trainer on my end forsure. That want to please mentality is a must. If they have the I'll do what you want after I've done what I want, they won't do it. They are also the kind of dog that can think on their feet. Too high strung and they can't adapt and they can't control impulse.

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 now  you have gotten me to thinkin.  i guess in 20 plus years of using a lead in catch dog/ bulldog( as all the years prior,i just had rough dogs) i never even tried to see if i could train one to walk off lead when hunting. guess my main focus was to get em to go to the bark,lol.

 

Yeah it took me a while to think about doing it but once I did it it sure made hunting more enjoyable. Even a good leading dog can get tangled or whatever. I've had several dogs I hunted off lead now. You'd be surprised how quick you can do it if the dog is smart and has that right disposition.

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The advantages I liked about the right bred, AB or dogo, vs my pits boiled down too two main things. More athletic regarding speed and endurance with the same hardness you need to trust in your cd (never let go). I also like the extra leg that keeps them holding with feet on the ground like a wrestler vs a short legged cd getting its front legs up to hold the ear and getting dish toweled or rodeo-ed as much. My final straw is when some really nice pits of mine drown from not letting go as the pig died and sank, never lost an AB or dogo like that but had 3 good pits have that happen after having allot of time in them was frustrating.

And FYI I know the right pit (mostly game bred from what ive seen) can be as athletic as any dogo/ab just saying in general the pure blood pits ive been around that were that athletic were smaller in length and weight and got there front legs up more than i preferred. Thats me being picky though 90% it dont matter and legged many of hog behind some short pits. 

Those are some fine bulldogs Teag. Man I sure do like that Mixer dog, and the Brody and Rooster dogs down from him look real nice too. You have a fine line of dogs going.

I'm a bulldog (APBT) man 100% till I die but doesn't mean I don't appreciate other breeds or good dogs when I see them. If I couldn't have bulldogs I would go with an AB hands down. In fact I recommend AB's to people when they are starting out.

There are pro's and cons to everything, and people will always have their preferences but I have hunted behind some really good AB's and APBT's. What I like about AB's are their size, intelligence, easier to control on and off switch, and they are usually easier to control dog aggression with. With that being said I still love the superior air, athleticism, and heart of a good bulldog. To each their own.

the most athletic ab that i had was my old same dog  who was a cowboy son bred by lem miller.  sams color, size and build would have fit right into orbie coplins yard. orbie was a game dog guy with a yard of tightly inbred and linebred howard hienzel  apbts. i actually remember art lee had a male from coplin named  audie murphy and he was a little bigger than my sam  dog.  so with sam i got the best of both worlds for my needs in an ab. sam was  about 75 pounds so i would have liked him to be 80 to 85 and preportionally the same  just a bit bigger and still retain the wind, etc.   he was a real good dog as he was  i just feel a bit bigger would have been better.

Dang, haven't seen the Orbie Coplin name in a couple decades. 

"Those are some fine bulldogs Teag. Man I sure do like that Mixer dog, and the Brody and Rooster dogs down from him look real nice too. You have a fine line of dogs going."

Thank you. That Mixer was a hell of an athlete. Once in a while, a freak pops up, and he was one. I got to get my current dog on a hunt. He seems to be a good one, but dont know till u know.

yeah i had a female named petunia bred by coplin that art lee gave me in the early 70s. she had all the wind in the world and ran her chain around the clock. but she would never start. i cant think what i did with her. i remember dennis ruth and curtis mayfield had some coplin dogs too. and cal mc mullin only had coplin dogs even though he just had a few dogs.

boy am i slippin,lol. bosco was long dead by that show. you are talkin about my max dog who later became a grnd ch in conformation. fullers grnd ch max a moose. max was bred by myself out of our buster dog/ harris buster boy of fuller and our fullers delta delay.

Teague D ,do you have any pictures of the chinamen cross?

rough, click on the pedigree link  he put in a post. takes you to the pics and peds

Monte that dog I mentioned Mixer is a 50/50 Chinaman bred apbt to a AB his ped is below
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1255652-mixer

Not exactly 50/50 but close

He's dang for sure nice

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I had the privilege of seeing Casper in person. Phil fed some of my patterdales. Solid pedigree on that side. What % of dog fighting do you get out of a litter?

Those APBT sisters were something for sure. Those two couldnt be around any animal that I didnt want burnt down.  Somewhat surprised that the crosses were not very dog aggressive, the ones I kept any how.  More if they were pushed they would put the hammer down kind of reaction.

This is another of the straight crosses....http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1286401-bullheads-dewie
this one was a killer. Maybe the most impressive dog Ive ever seen

Looks like this turned into a white trash/ O0 game bred pit bulldog thread. It's ashame no one is breeding old timey working white bulldogs anymore.

Hey warrent do you know of anyone with the old white dogs?? So what’s everyone’s take on color of the American bulldog?? I’ve noticed the trend going to more color. I prefer the white but yes mine is brindle patched. But that’s what the misses picked. I would have picked all white. The biggest problem I see with the bulldog is there wind. Could that be improved with time and better breeding ??

What The do it u mean White trash?

I do still have a lead on some old blood out of Lorida, from some Indian friends. This is where my last two have come from. I am waay down the list on getting one though. I do however, have the next best thing, and that is leads on a couple of cowdog lines that already have that blood bred into them. You are not going to buy these dogs off these MEN for any amount of money though. They are "earned" through trust and mutual respect. They are bred and placed to a select few, to work, period.   Lot of that brindle comes from these clowns breeding mastiff and "pit" bulldog into those white dogs. These dogs, at least where I am from, were bred to "work", not fight. Fighting dogs is for white trash and niggers. not blackmen, but niggers, at least where I come from ;)

No sugar coating it from me. I mean exactly what I said. ;)

Been years since I’ve posted on here but I got me a nice male bulldog from Scott Pugh that I never leave behind best nature dog I’ve ever owned...

warrent then i guess according to the humane society of the untited states  you are white trash. as they consider using a dog to catch hogs as a type of dog fighting. im just giving you a hard time as the hsus is a bunch of idiots.  but we all have our own opinions and in the eyes of the antis dog fighting and hunting hogs with dogs are equally wrong.  do you consider yourself a bad person / white trash for catchin hogs?

well since I dont know, nor care what u are, u can do it yourself, wood or boon. No one is talking fighting dogs.

He is a pretty nice dog too, though I still like Mixer better  ;D

Are you still breeding these dogs if so, what do you have currently?

Thank you. I havent done a breeding in a few years. The only dog I still have is PorkChop. I did go see Bullhead last weekend and he had a real nice female I considered for one. I just dont have the space, or desire to deal w pups.

Have heard good things about his dogs as well. Seem to have the right on/off switch.

yes sir I made a cross too a bigger bulldog gyp got a male pup he’s about 10 weeks old will see how he turns out in the future wish I could post pictures but dang photobucket having problems..

I’ll message my number to anyone that wants pics posted. I can post them for you or I can do my best to walk you threw it

Jeff Clark in the Florida panhandle still breeds old style White English Bulldogs. Never bought a dog off him, but have heard good things about him. He rarely has pups though.

http://razorbackbulls.tripod.com/jeff.htm

From what I have heard and seen, with my own eyes, his blood is Johnson bred. Although they may make good "yard" dogs, the one's I have seen are worthless when it comes to "working" ability.

Amen...just ‘nother sales pitch which has plagued the ‘breed’ since inception.
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There are originators if the breed like Alan Scott and darrin Jones and others that got stock from pockets in the south.  They, like Johnson and others tweeked and changed things for a growing market.
 
I can’t tell you really what the origin of the ‘ab’ was.

I believe myself , and I could be wrong, the ab is a mutt and always was....

Warrant will disagree.

I know in the 1920’s the most popular dog in America was the Colby piebald pitbull terrier. This is absolute fact. I believe the ab traces its origins to crosses of those dogs.

As far as the ab as a breed I believe the best ‘recipe’ there was were the Billy hines dogs. He was a dog peddler and his pedigrees are suspect at the very least.

There are other ‘modern’ ab breeders like ‘stover’ and ‘jones’  and ‘miles’ That left a mark. As did Johnson...

But to say they are anything other than souped up Colby type pits you would have to prove me wrong and I have studied this and asked these questions a 100 times before and have yet for someone to prove me wrong

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1587908-mac-the-masher (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1587908-mac-the-masher)
Colby type pitbull foundation dog
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1584928-scotts-dixieman (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1584928-scotts-dixieman)
English bulldog cross foundation dog
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1759017-johnsons-dick-the-bruiser (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1759017-johnsons-dick-the-bruiser)
English and maybe mastif cross from the 50’s. Foundation dog
 
To me all these dogs which are foundation dogs either are decendants of the most popular dog in america 30-50 years prior or are crosses of those dogs

Just thru research I found an actual family connection.
This is a relative of mine documented in a book of my family
Which actually contains a family tree like dog pedigree papers. I claim no prior knowledge of this nor did I contribute in any way to bulldogs or the history. But this man is in the fifth gen of semmes in America in the book and I am in the 11th gen in the book.
Just a weird coincidence..,
This is the turn of the century...1908.
Traces these dogs to english origins. Dadgum they look like they could be progenitors of the ab. They are pitbulls
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=80537 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=80537)
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=80542 (http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=80542)

If you were to trace semmes’ colonel’s progeny you will see that some were imported back to england and bred with dogs to create the amstaff which was then imported back to America.
Dogs that were piebald and looked much like this dog.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1442829-joshuas-sand-valley-sam-aka-cowboy (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1442829-joshuas-sand-valley-sam-aka-cowboy)

I know folks hate it but these are facts supported by historical evidence. I am willing to listen to facts as well and willing to change my mind....but fairy tales don’t count.
I have met Gerald miles twice and seen his yard taped. I have seen billy Hines yard tapes as well
As others... these are ‘foundation’ breeders of the ab....

Have no interest in "foundation" American bulldogs or those that bred them. Almost all I have seen have had "pit" bulldog bred into them at some point. The dogs I speak of, I have been told and believe to be true, are more descended from Spanish blood, rather than English blood. I have Indian friends in Highlands County Florida that have had the dogs I speak of long before the 1920's. Family goes back to Chief "Cow Catcher" from the Alachua /Gainesville area. These dogs have a "herding" trait that sets them apart from all others. Bred to work not fight. 

Fairy tales... is this the aluant you speak of? The ‘Alan’s dogs’?  You need check the history my friend. Maybe you are talking bout a catahoula possibly bred from a Spanish bulldog cross by your Indian friend’s fore-bearers

The alaunt is the fore bearer of bulldogs, mastiffs and greyhounds...
none of which are herders.
They are war, fighting and catchdogs.
Indians did breed the catahoula from some unknown breed to their own dogs.
This is fact as well. It could have been an alaunt I suppose....

I’m just saying....most American bulldog owners I have met. Would hope their dog wouldn’t be considered as having a ‘herding’ instinct when facing a wild hog. I’ve been there and done that. U have had both curr and and catch dogs. And every an owner I have known want theirs to just catch not herd

Chief Cow Keeper, not Catcher. My bad. No Fairy Tales here bud. First hand knowledge from a group of Family's who's blood has been in "La Florida" since Spanish rule. Have been told that some of them Alanos them Spanish Boys brought over were pretty good "herders" ;)

By that I guess you mean catchers? You know...like a bulldog?

No offense bud, but we are on two completely different pages here. I will continue to look for the type of dog I speak of. I'm not smart enough to post pics, but if you ever come across one of these bulldogs I speak of, please let me know. A picture of my "Sissy" dog can be found back through my pages. You ever come across someone who breeds them that looks like that and posses a natural herding instinct, please let me know. 

No problem here ‘bud’... wish I’d had ya contact sooner cause I’ve spent a couple or few bullets on those ‘herding’ types in the past. Guess I’ll just pass um on to you from now on if I come cross um.

Just to clarify, in case there are actually some left out there, the trait I speak of is the ability to attempt to hold up, bunch, and ring stock. Most here have read my posts in the past and understand that. This is for those that don't.

Warrent, check out the fir sale section...
 
Seems like a good fit for you to at least give a shot. Haggiebear a good dude that loves the breed.

I have seen leatherneck dogs and they are driven... Henery a good dude that has been breeding fur decades.
 
Margenta and painter dogs go back to foundation stock.

And got old school Scott dogs in the mix as well and true grit...

If I were you, and like you say you are looking for something to prove I’d give it a shot for sure.

You got nothing to lose on this one.

To anyone looking for an ab to work and try and prove our id pick up this dog and give it a go. It’s free from a guy that is working to prove his stock. What more honorable cause could be asked???
It’s free to a working home and from well thought out and bred lines. Check out the post by haggiebear in the fir sale section

I gain nothing from this but sure hope someone picks it up and I’m reading stories with it as a catchdog because I know there is blood sweat and tears and decades combined of folks that poured their heart into the ab. ....and I truly live the breed as well

I prefer my prospects to be weened pups. Thank you for the heads up though.

Warrent, after reflection,I 100% agree with you on that. And further I would not suggest anyone with a lot of prior experience with sometimes dominate breeds such as the ab to take on the responsibility of tryn take an older full grown dog, especially a male, and just try and dump a lot of new handling and pressure in the dog without a long period of trust building and handling....it is a recipe that could lead to disaster.

I got an older dog to try and blend into my little thing I got going some time ago...we never hit it off. It’s hard to know in those situations, especially when the dog comes from half the country away whether it is environmental and prior training or handling expectancy or a genetic bred in thing which is in opposition to what you are expecting...
 
Either way it did not work out for me.

I understand and agree.

Thanks for the kind words... it’s really all about trying to make better bulldogs
 And putting  the right dogs with the right people  ... The male that was in the dog trade section has been placed and so far is catching well ...  I have a yard of standard bred American Bulldogs from bama boy margentina stuff vía Leatherneck, king ranch kennels ,bullhead, the Rowe’s via dory the axehead bitch , truegrit blood via high octanes Tyson by way trezona ...There is sorting to be done with Americans bulldogs as a whole  to get the complete package... But the good ones are very good dogs...

Does Mitch Allison out of East Texas still breed hunting ABs? Last time I talked with him was well over maybe 20 years ago? His dogs were huge.

Last I heard he wasn't in the AB's anymore. He was always a pit guy 1st, though he kept a lot of AB's around and did breed them.