EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

We talk about lots of different physical aspects of dogs. One thing I like to see personally is good ear. I like the houndy ear set best with some length. I don’t want the blood hound ear length but I also don’t want short ears either. I guess the best way to describe it is more ear than the typical cur types and less than the full old school hounds. The modern hounds are pretty nice as they don’t seem to have as much ear as the dogs of yesteryear, to me anyway. It’s mostly cosmetic but I do think that longer ear is beneficial to some degree in grinding a track out. What are y’all’s preferences?


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To me the perfect ear is what the gsp has


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If you are referring to length of ear as being colder nose I can tell you there is no correlation between ear length and whether a dog is cold or hot nose. I have had several Plotts that had shorter ears that were extremely cold nose and have had the opposite. Ear length is just another phenotype gene. The pic. Below is a cur dog I had that had prick up ears and yet one of the coldest nose dogs I have owned including Plotts. This is IMO of course. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211101/fd4d6726c317d353602daa8572b3d32d.jpg)


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Yes…I like a 65 pound dog with good length of ear just like T-dog said…no droopy eared snoopy types…
The inside fold corner of ear to be even with the top of the skull…and I like the outer fold lower than the inner fold…

Lol, I’ve heard that old tale in reference to ear length correlating to how cold their nose is. I’ve had similar experiences as you regarding that Cajun. What I was talking about with ears helping was when trying to move a track that’s cold or in dry ground. I’m one that thinks that the long ear might help flush a little scent when an old dog has his head down grinding slow. The blood hounds for example have all the loose hide that almost looks like rolls or wrinkles when their head is down. They also drool a lot. It’s said that these wet folds collect scent and that the long ears flush the scent up so that it can collect there. It’s one more tool to help the already extremely cold nosed hounds. Like I say, that’s just something I always felt was an extra tool but definitely doesn’t have anything to do with how cold a nose a dog has. I’m a little more drawn to hounds so that could be part of the reason I prefer more ear too.


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That old leopard dog sure has a nice eye about him. Looks like he had a lot going on in that old head.


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I prefer a good ear flat across the head with some decent length and width that doesn't droop much and are held high across the top.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/2c23e304004362ade3c5db91a509ca97.jpg)

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That’s a fine animal. I like that ear too Cracker.


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Lol, I’ve heard that old tale in reference to ear length correlating to how cold their nose is. I’ve had similar experiences as you regarding that Cajun. What I was talking about with ears helping was when trying to move a track that’s cold or in dry ground. I’m one that thinks that the long ear might help flush a little scent when an old dog has his head down grinding slow. The blood hounds for example have all the loose hide that almost looks like rolls or wrinkles when their head is down. They also drool a lot. It’s said that these wet folds collect scent and that the long ears flush the scent up so that it can collect there. It’s one more tool to help the already extremely cold nosed hounds. Like I say, that’s just something I always felt was an extra tool but definitely doesn’t have anything to do with how cold a nose a dog has. I’m a little more drawn to hounds so that could be part of the reason I prefer more ear too


I have heard and read that too T dog. I prefer the ear length on dogs that just flat get it done. lol

Cajun are there certain families of plotts that come shorter eared. I don’t mean to the extreme of course but maybe more comparable to the cur types than the hound? I ask because because of my understanding of how the plotts evolved from start to present day.

Let me ask this of those of you that have hunted hounds. Has it ever seemed that the truly long eared hounds seemed slower and the shorter eared hounds were faster? Of course there’s always an exception, but in general it seems like every really long eared hound I’ve been around was just flat slow, more similar to the blood hound I guess. It seemed to me like I looked up one day and started seeing all these hounds with less ear and they were marketed as being fast and fast tracking. Most of it seemed to have started with the walkers around here and mainly with the competition hounds. Now days it seems like you can almost see a head shot of hound and tell if it is old foundation bred or more the modern breeding just by looking at the ear on them. I did say ALMOST. 


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Here is my answer and opinion to your question, yes it has seemed the extremely long eared dogs have been slower but I feel that is due to having more of the bloodhound influence or bloodhound type dog in them vs the foxhound. Foxhounds tend to have higher set shorter ears compared to bloodhounds. So its not the ear itself but those slower long eared dogs also tend to carry other bloodhound traits such as a heavier set looser build and so forth.

I am not sure on the Plott side of things as they are a breed all to their own, but I did read somewhere that the Pioneer dog had bloodhound in him and that is why he was so huge and had such long ears vs most other Plotts of the time but I am not sure how accurate that is. I am sure some of the Plott guys on here might know more about that and how true it is or is not.

What I have seen more correlation in regards to nose and style is whether a dog is silent or open. I would like to hear if anybody has any observations or opinions about that.

I know (in my head at least lol) that cur dogs down here with a longer bigger ear and the set and type of ear I like tend to have a better nose and bigger bottom as a general rule than that of a cur dog down here with a higher shorter more bulldog type earset and I believe that is because just that I believe the smaller eared dogs tend to have more bulldog in their lineage and the longer larger eared dogs have more hound in theirs.This is only my own observation and opinion based on dogs I've either owned or hunted with but it could all be in my head too.

I think there is a lot of truth to that cracker. There are always exceptions. I had a mentor that had a dog that I couldn’t stand. The dog was an Eskimo Spitz or at least half. Fluffyish white hair and short ears that stood straight up except for about the last inch that kinda flopped forward. That sucker might wake up today with that let me show you what a hog dog is attitude and next time you take him he’d make you want to play in the road. I’ve seen it when the other dogs were baying a sounder and when they would start shooting hogs, they would break out. Had a boar about 150 weight break out of the brush 10 yards from us. Casper (the spitz) was standing there and lit out after it. The hog hit more brush about 30-40 yards later and Casper hit the breaks like a reining horse and came right back to us. It was like he was saying “nope, too thick maybe next time”! I’ve also seen that short eared sucker put his nose down and straddle a track that no other dogs even knew was there and put a hog at the end of it.


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Too much ear….well bred English hound. He straddled cold tracks till they heated up, then he would drift and was pretty accurate when he treed.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/f771a02e2fc4f073c34427f2c48b6813.jpg)


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Not quite enough….good length but set back a little too far. Red BMC. Primarily a winding dog but he can trail. Totally silent until bayed. Bayed more hogs for me than any other I’ve hunted. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/39c5c258fc004cb1053499d7badf539f.jpg)


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Perfect ear length for me on this dog. Set just a touch back but not too far. Silent track dog that preferred to ground trail. Gave a hound locate when he found the hog. Once he picked his head up and galloped off, you were about to be in hogs. Relayed on groups better than any I’ve hunted. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211102/76556047fc525f6992044713bc36067c.jpg)


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  Rednose, You are correct. Dale Bradenburger of the Pioneer kennels had bigger houndier dogs. One of his main dogs in the early years was Pioneer drum and you could look at that dog and see the bloodhound in him. There is alot of specuation on the anncestory of him but I have heard that the bloodhound traits came from his mother but seeing pics of him with his sire and dam, I dont know and probably never will.
  I know this is a topic about ears but their are dogs that stradlle a cold track and mudhole it and there are others that can just drift a cold track and get it jumped. A lot also depends on just how old the track is. I'll see if I can dig up some pictures of some ears. lol

Look at he guys that run dry ground lions. As a whole they are probably some of the coldest nose dogs. They look houndy but not huge eared bloodhoud types

I too believe in the moderate long ear makes a better hunting dog with more bottom and better nose which is the type of dog I like…
Sometimes when we breed for a certain trait, we get other traits along with the trait we are breeding for without realizing it is happening…
Example…Again personal theory…we are breeding racing greyhounds and we want to breed the absolute fastest so we can win wherever we go especially when entering the bigger races…it is somewhat easy breeding this trait on account our dogs are fast and win their fair share…we know the fastest times out there so we have our goals set accordingly…as we consistently breed faster dogs something else is happening…the heads are getting smaller and the nose more aerodynamic and that makes logical sense…the lighter and smaller head increases speed, is more aerodynamic and so is the nose…something else we did not see…the skin got thinner…so why is this happening? There are two possibilities that make sense…one is that the dog is lighter in weight with the thinner skin making him faster…the thinner skin is also allowing him to run cooler as he speeds around the track using a tremendous amount of energy while creating lots of internal heat…but with the thinner coat it is much easier to give off more heat allowing the dog to run cooler…some of those hidden traits are genetically associated with a faster dog and other hidden traits are due to other reasons like already mentioned…lighter weight and aerodynamics…the little things that give the winning edge…
The longer ear…tends to be on a slower dog that keeps his nose down in the track when trailing…
The medium ear dog tends to trail with his head up…sometimes tracking off wind currents and looking to see or hear the game ahead so the dog can leave the track…the good ones use the wind currents to find the hot end of the tracks…I wrote enough about the greyhound whom I know very little about…the same type of examples apply to the long eared dogs….and as different traits apply to medium length ears…
There are exceptions to every rule, but I tend to look at the averages for better accuracy on personal theory…

Yes...they have really nice ears to them...

I like good length of ear not real big hound ear and not short prick up ears wide and lay flat to head but my favorite ears are which ever ones can constantly put hogs at end of tracks and keep em bayed there till I get there lol but I have seen em both ways I have seen some full cur kinda prick ears like dogs in Cajuns pic that could flat out do it  and some dogs with good ear that couldn't smell hog if it ran over em and visa versa(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/df74bed948f8118740e6dd6fcc20dc3d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/45ea5b8006e98436a8ff4227dd7c58b7.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/bc70f5eb315643bb7cc51485aab3f3bf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211103/56437f715be1861bea85d1f21fb34dae.jpg)

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NLA  I still like those dogs of yours. I’m BIG on the eye of an animal, people too for that matter. I’d bet all this dogs are nice but that first red motley dog has a really good eye!


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Nice dogs bubba


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Good looking dogs…

Thank y'all yes sir he is making a pretty nice dog he about 2 1/2 now this coming year he should be pretty nice

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Pretty sure my bluetick heard yall start talking about ears. It seems like he has the time to hit the colder tracks. I remember this summer at the lease it was dry and getting hot. Drove across some tracks and stuck him and ranger out on them ranger maybe moved it a few hundred yards never acted really interested but playboy the bluetick liked it but never really opened up just nose on the ground. I went and casted ranger and the other dogs a few more times before going all the way around the block and picked him up a mile and a half away from where the tracks were. I got the chance to see him before he seen me and his ole tail was gyrating  like he was about to explode on it. Idk could've just been the circumstances but I'd like to say he's acted interested in old sign even my walker would sometimes pass up. when they strike together they're head to head one in front of the other. Just wish I had more patients and land to see them grind out a old cold track.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211128/7cd36a706d0887ab700917600b07b0c4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211128/d1b344797ba0c37e59fccf22eccfe435.jpg)

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Them eyes can tell a feller a whole lot if he knows how to read them, birds or beast.....

Cajun- how was that leopard dog bred in the picture you posted at the beginning of this post. Looks exactly like what my father and granddad raised in the 70s and 80s. Have one in the yard I rescued in high school that looks just like it as well. Most hunters I’ve introduced her to will tell me she isn’t a cur dog. Always laughed about that. Dog has got more heart and nose than anything I’ve produced in 10 years. Not sure how she is bred but haven’t seen any with her type ear that was considered legit.


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  Lefty, That leopard catahoula was bred out of cow dog stock back when we had open range. I got him in the early 80's. Except for the freeze brand he could pass for a littermate of the one NLA posted.

I've seen it time and again that the length of the ears didn't have near as much influence on scenting ability than it did with what was between those ears.....

Goose i agree because that bluetick is a decent dog but he's pretty dull

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I can tell you T>DOG in the litters of Plotts I have hunted and raised,, that ear length has not been able to tell me which ones is gonna do what..  LOL...  I have two brothers off the same litter ,, that dont look nuthin alike or ear length..  The shorter ear dog looks like his momma ,, but doesnt work a track like she did,, hes faster than she was at the same age comparison..  But the other Brother is way more colder nosed but can move a track faster than his momma did.. SO looking at these two ,, only one looks like his daddy but he was striking hogs before his daddy did at the same age comparison..   

I then bred the same daddy to another gyp and got shorter ear type dogs than before ,, they favored more of the momma of that litter.  They were some of the fastest dogs on track but also had noses that performed along the same lines as the longer ear off springs like their daddy and grandaddy from before..  LOL..  SO WHO KNOWS>>

Highwater, what you’re describing is kinda one of the things I was wondering about in the plotts. I wondered if the shorter eared Plotts were a little less houndy in the way they tracked as far as being faster. Not saying long eared dogs can’t be fast on track just that the shorter eared ones were maybe striking back more towards the original plotts. It sounds like you’re on the right track and that particular stud might be a good one.


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Here are some ears on some of my young dogs. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211219/fd08a7eae251e14463cca965a56f9f54.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211219/4b28fe26b48dd06767928493635472c1.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211219/a204a6026db301303b23361de8932fbc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211219/dabda1281fc319ae7fbf59b2ff9521ad.jpg)


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Heck yeah!!!! I’ll take the ears and the dogs!!!! Those are some sure fine looking dogs Cajun. That is nice ear on them not so
long that they step on them but enough that it says I’m a hound. Very impressive.


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Do you get a very high percentage of those saddle back looking dogs like the male in the third picture?


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T-Dog, I get them from time to time. I've had them from the beginning.

Cajun,  I’m wondering about the eye color of that dog in the third pic.

What color is it? Seems quite a bit lighter than the other three.

He also seems to be that steel blue dilute color overall.

I know you have blue sometimes.

Does the lighter eye color always come with the coat color?

Just asking because I have a fawn dilute, I guess, for first time in the mutts I have been breeding.
And it has a lighter color eye as well.

Anyway, good looking dogs!

Plus...I guess he the rowdy annoying one in the bunch since he the only one wearing the bark collar!?! Lol

Thanks Semme. It must come with the color. I am going to ck his sister tomorrow. Here is another Maltese, a 1/2 brother to the light eyed dog n he has light eyes too. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211220/90353a977863d4aae7813e56a06d8190.jpg)


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I ain’t got tapatalk or I’d post pics sometimes. Heck I ain’t even got a computer or a tv for last 11-12 years. Lol

But from what I see this about how it goes.
The dilute gene ‘dd’ has the be inherited from both sire and dam.

I guess with as long as you have been doing it and as many dogs you have produced and reproduced you got it bout nailed down where the dilute comes from?

I’m working with very few dogs if limited pool and at snails pace.

But interested in keeping track for myself

[url] https://risingphoenixheritagefarm.com/farm-blog/understanding-blue-fawn-genetics[url]

Yes, The Maltese gene is recessive. It is a diluted black. The buckskin gene is also recessive. I have not had a Malltes in about 20-25 years and in both cases I bred this female out to outside males and both times she threw Maltese. So she defintely carries the gene.

When you get those Maltese and buckskin dogs, is there a noticeable difference in them from your usual dogs. Are they made different, do they have have different noses, different hunt, more or less grit, etc. If there aren’t any noticeable differences why don’t more people try to breed for it? Just a curiosity.


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T dog You are hitting on a sore subject. There is no difference in the dogs no matter what the color, they are still Plotts. Back in the early days when Plotts were first registered buckskins were allowed. People started breeding buckskin to buckskin just so they could sell buckskins. As you know anytime dogs are bred for just color the ability starts going downhill. When you breed two recessive genes together you will mostly get that color. There are a few exceptions tho. Al ot of times if you breed to Maltese together you will get skin problems. Kind of like breeding a double merle together you might get deaf or blind dogs.
  AKC always registered the buckskins as it should be. Most hunters I know are going to breed for ability first. One of the best Plotts I have had was a Buckskin. Also one of the best Plotts I had threw Buckskins. The Maltese color has always been in the breed also. Now UKC accepts any solid color, Black, Maltese or Buckskin.
  Thanks for the kind words on the dogs.

  Most of them are pretty quiet because they know I'll get on to them if they bark but I have a 25 acre training pen that is only 50 yards from where I keep the dogs. that stupid hog will walk the fence line right before dark and set them all off. Mostly when I holler at them they shut up or else. That pup has not quite learned what shut up means. lol

That makes sense to me. My dogs come many colors and combos being the cross that they are. They are usually the same except for the wrapper though. I know it’s somewhat different while at the same time very similar, but my dad has a family of chickens that are a really old family and once in a while you get a solid white one. The old man he got them from started breeding white to white and started another family off of those. Nearly everything about the white ones was different. They performed different, build was somewhat different, and even their nature was different. That’s why I asked about the Maltese and buckskins because I was wondered. Thanks for the explanation.

By the way, do you think one of the four you posted for examples of ear is better than the others? The last one I think is a female and while they are all nice, she’s pretty hard to beat on build and looks for my taste. The first one looks pretty young still in that picture.


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When I started I thought Plotts were the sorriest breed out there. I just could not find one to suit me and the biggest problem was finding one that would stay bayed by there self. I tried several Weems bred dogs and they just did not have it. Finally tried some Weems dogs from Jody and donna Hill from Hempstead, Tx. What a difference. Nose, Speed and grit. That's when I found out there is Weems and then there is WEEMS. I had gotten some Swampland bred dogs and they had everything I wanted. The Weems were more hyper, leggier and the swampland dogs were more muscular and laid back. They were all business when you turned them loose tho. I got a Buckskin male from Joe Hudson (Shamrock breeding) and he had it all. Joe's dogs are probably 75% Weems bred off the Butch x Jill cross and Weems Doc with some Timber thrown in there.
  I have bred them all back and forth and to this day I still get leggy dogs and some will have more muscle on them but they all run about the same
  Out of those three strains I have had certain dogs that I bred around. All this started about 38 years ago with the Plotts.
  Just remember this. A great dog has no bad color and a sorry dog comes in all colors. lol

Good stuff Cajun!

Also t-dog, love hearing the anecdotal stuff that comes from animal breeding and experience

Just 30 minutes ago a friend called me about American bulldogs. He said he found someone in Georgia that had Scott’s bred dogs. He said ALL their dogs came from Alan. My words to him were “they may have his blood but it doesn’t mean they have his dogs”! I totally get what you mean when you say there are Weems dogs and then there are WEEMS dogs. I doesn’t take but a couple generations for dogs become different from how they were originally. That was another lesson my dad taught me with chickens. He said 5 people could buy the same family of chickens from the same man and in just a few generations you would likely have 5 new versions of the original version because people have different taste, different standards, a different eye, and different abilities. This has definitely been true in the dogs as well.


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That’s dirty....you are baiting me lol

I’ll just post this here, it is from a series of yard tapes from Billy Hines in Texas.

This is early 90’s. They can be found on YouTube.

This guy thought ‘old man’ Alan was long dead lol.

Homes blood became some of the ‘best’ standard ab blood though the breedings and peds were questionable at best considering he was just a dog peddler.

Alan had been in a long enough hiatus from the breed he was considered ‘long dead’.

In actuality Alan probably younger than bill hines.

Alan came back and acquired some dogs from Hines breeding once the breed became popular.

Alan has always been nice to me and I consider him a friend but this historical folklore thing is nuts to me.

 https://youtu.be/2mRNSvNnThE (https://youtu.be/2mRNSvNnThE)

If there was anybody that was the progenitor of the ab it would be Colby probably since white or piebald Bulldogs were the most popular breed of dog throughout America
in the 1920’s

All the ancestors after that are just that either ancestors, or composites containing other breeds just breed to be bigger and usually still white.

Whole darn thing is a farce

To piggy back cajun’s narrative about folks breeding the buckskin for plotts.

That is the ab in a nutshell.

Bulldogs bred to be white and the biggest they could get em no matter what they crossed.

Not to say some good things didn’t come of the experiment...

All my dogs go back to this dog and she was a very good dog.

You can see they all go back to Billy Hines so I ain’t hatin just keeping it real

 http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=866557-manors-preachin-to-the-choir-of?_v=20170517233138 (http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=866557-manors-preachin-to-the-choir-of?_v=20170517233138)

Your dad is a smart man…

Well said Cajun, breeding for coat color and eye color is the beginning of the end for a working breed.

Merle coat color and colored eyes all but ruined Catahoulas (though there are definitely still some real good ones out there if you know where to look), and the merle coat color is now ruining the American Leopard Cur (Leopard Hound). I can see why registries would not let certain colors be registered because they had the foresight to see what certainly would come after the dog peddlers and fur mommies start breeding for that certain color, though having to think like that sucks and it shouldn't be that way.

On FB a couple of months back I seen a litter of almost all Maltese pups (Registered Plotts), and it had over a 100 comments with people trying to get them with most of those being people that didn't hunt and just thought they were beautiful. Not bashing anyone but that is a bad sign for a hunting breed.

I have some very harsh stances on how registering and titling working breeds should be done but that would need to be a whole different thread lol.

It’s not just plotts or leopards/Catahoulas that it’s happened with. I think the yella dogs and MANY more have taken the same hit. It doesn’t even have to be color. It’s like Cajun said, anytime you breed for one specific trait and are willing to sacrifice all the others to accomplish it, there can only be devastation in the future. I was talking to a friend about AB’s this morning and he said that everyone he called wanted 1200 + for pups. He said I can’t justify paying that for a dog that stands a chance of only getting to see a few hunts before they meet that wrong hog. I also can’t breed to something that I don’t know is going to work. So he started asking people why they were so high and telling them what he wanted them for. He pretty much started getting the same 2 answers. First one was because people were paying it and second was because very few of them were going to working homes. Most of them were just going to be pets. He told me it’s nearly impossible to find a good catch dog. I told him that sentiment seems to be nation wide. Likely for the same two reasons, that being too many people don’t know what good is which means junk gets bred to junk and the other is the dogs aren’t being used enough in working situations. I know this has gotten off track from ears but it’s still a good conversation, lol.


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Dale Brandenburgers Pioneer Drum. The dog that started the bloodhound controversy. Dog weighed 90# and won the first Autumn Oaks Coonhunt. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220106/4f0b04bd7d8955bd7aecb040e8ce52c8.jpg)


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Do you know or remember when that was Cajun?


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That was in 1960.

I have some old Full Cry magazines and a few other magazines like it. I’m going to look back in them and see if I can find that.


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