EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have a couple of cur dogs right now that are pretty good finished hog dogs. One of em in her prime I would have put up against any strike dog around. Well, we are getting permission to hunt some larger areas and I am thinking my curs that are a little hotter nosed might need some assistance from some colder nosed hounds. What are some of the problems you guys have had introducing open mouthed dogs to your pack. Most of the guys I hunt with won't be happy me bringing in some open mouthed dogs but I'll be damned if I let my pride get in the way of me catching hogs. I honestly think in those larger areas we'll need those rangier, colder nosed dogs.

You're forgetting the open mouthed cur dogs in this thread!

First, I will start off saying, there are cold nose cur dogs out there that are long ranging dogs but for me, it has been easier to maintain those traits  in my plotts.  One of the biggest advantages to me, if I cant find a track or sign, I will cast a dog or two in one block  & go find another block & cast another dog in another block. When I start back checking, a lot of times, they will be bayed or running.
  Dogs opening on track has never been as much of a factor for me catching hogs. To me the amount of dogs on the ground determine if a hog breaks or stays bayed. They either have to be tough enough to hold him, or stay back & bay.

Ben you are right. I was typing when you posted.

Twelve years ago I had closed mouth good curs like yourself; my hunting partners thought the same ways yours do to (against open mouth dogs).   Ten years I introduced a plott hound to my pack in order to find colder tracks.  I never looked back and today I have all plotts and one cur and I found some new hunting partners.  For me, getting the "right" hound was the best thing that happened to me.   If you are thinking the hounds may open your curs I would say not likely.  If anything, a hound may push your cur dogs and make them better.

If your dogs are "finished" and one you'd put up against any dog around... why do they need help?

Sounds like you have what you need already...

Exactly what I was thinking.

Here and on Facebook, I've been seeing that phrase "I'd put em against any dog around" a lot. I reckon schools out for the summer.



As far as your question of problems with bringing hounds in;
I always always say, if your dogs will run a track faster than the hog will lay it, you'll catch hogs. Doesn't matter where in the world your hunting, or how bad a runnin hogs your dealing with, if they have enough speed to make the hog sprint his whole track, and the bottom to stay on that azz till he doubles over huffing and puffing to catch his breath, you'll bay hogs. Cur hound terrier or mutt.

I actually said " in her prime, I would have put her up against any dog around"... Which implies that she is no longer in her prime. She is getting old and I honestly think with as much as we hunt she only has 2 more years left in her. But like i said, I am hunting an area that you need more than one good dog, and on top of that she isn't very long range anymore. No sense in being a jerk about the answer... Just a question about  open mouth dogs.

I say area don't matter they have curs that will go as far and run tracks as cold as any hound it is all about what you want to feed I like curs but most of all I like hog dogs!!!!

I don't think anybody was being a jerk, just giving you good insight based off their knowledge. 

A good cur dog is as hard to find as a good hound, and trying to breed them with consistency will leave you a pile of bones in your backyard from all the failed attempts.  I wouldn't worry so much about hound or curs as I would specific dogs and a line that suited my style.

I guess you could say we kind of have a situation similar enough to yours to understand where you are coming from.  We have a gyp, Roxy that I probably gave a lot more patience than she deserved bc she was VERY high energy, and did not care about a pig until she was every bit of a yr and a half... not even in a bay pen.  We now have a bmc that will bawl on a hot track.  Roxy (the pup that showed no interest at first) responds extremely well to his bawls UNLESS she is on a hog of her own... and by that, I mean, she's looking at it's arse run from her or she is staring it in the face. 

When we are roading them, and they start to get excited, I have seen him throw his nose up first, and I have also seen her outstrike him.  A huge barrier for us was to hunt the two together enough before Roxy would stick with Rowdy.  It was extremely frustrating at times, but she has finally began to stick with him when they hunt unless she is more confident in what she is doing than him- and that may not even be the correct way to describe it.  Like I said, Roxy is very high energy, very anxious- when she works a trail, she works it fast. (Maybe because she is young, I'm hoping she will grow out of this.) BUT for whatever reason, i.e., age, experience, etc... Rowdy is slow and steady, but I want so bad for our younger dogs to learn from him.  So to answer your question, I would say that just because you get an open dog or semi open dog, whatever breed it may be, do not be discouraged if at first they do not stick together - just keep hunting them! They will eventually learn what that bawl or bark means!!!

I have a redbone gyp that will pull all my dogs to her if she hits a track. She is open and when she gets going they all go to her. I have watched the others on the garmin cut loops short and use cut off angles to get to her. Even seen dogs run head on into the hog. If ur pack has a tendency to hunt spread out but will honor an open dog will pull them together quick. The close mouth dogs should stay that way. It can be difficult to find hunting buddies tho when u run open dogs without a doubt. If u decide to try some hounds if they open on track and u don't catch that first pig don't freak out cause u know as well as I u can have one get away from silent dogs also.

I run my curs with a buddies open bluetick. They have adapted to know when he is just talking and when he is serious. But for the most part all the dogs on the ground are independent. The thing I see the most out of hunting a open hound with tight mouthed cur dogs is a hound won't honor them.

And you fellas are right on the phrase my dogs will hang with any dog. Just a month or so ago a fella said his dogs could hang with any dogs in the state of texas. I told him I would like to see em hunt and to this day I still haven't.... wonder whg hiat the deal is?

that's exactly what I was thinking Mike...when you say you can put your strike dog against anybody's dog then that to me means that your dog has a good balance of speed, nose, and the ability to find a good track pretty quick...if you have that then why a hound???there are curs out there that when you drop them out the box you might be getting them back the next day...

I think alot of people tend to go to looking for hounds when tey want more range and bottom and nose because their more common with these traits than a cur but its curs out there that have just as good noses and as much bottom and range but their not just running all over the place. You will just have to try one for a little while and see if it fits your pack or not

If you want colder nose dogs find the right cur that has what your looking for any breed to him. Hounds are not the answer ;D

  Sounds like to me your wanting to cover more country. What about rigging a cur on the hood or back of vehicle and driving?

I def like to hood hunt and I do some of the time, but one of the issues is with this particular property... it has reall steep banks and the hogs stay down in a ravine bottom. The bottom kind of spider webs over a lot of the country over there so if i am hooding the area I feel like the scent wont come out of the bottom very well. Do you guys disagree? Do you think the scent will come out of those deep creek bottoms and carry? Sorry guys I am def a new hunter but am trying to learn as much as possible because its an awesome sport.

I think you should go and get you a hound and try it.  Understanding others opinion is good, but I think you should go with your own gut feeling.  If you don't want to invest a lot in a good hound, invite someone with some hounds and see how your dog reacts and interacts.    I don't know where you are located, but I've got some hounds and would be willing to hunt with you.  You may see something you like and a whole lot you don't like.

In the mornings, as temps are rising, thermoclines will pull the scent out of the bottom (warming air rises). In the evening, as the weather cools, thermoclines will push scent down into the bottom (cool air falls). Granted, wind can offset or counteract thermoclines at any time...

How big of a property is "bigger"? Bigger is a pretty subjective description.

Steve

Good information thank you so much. That is definitely something that will do be some good. Yeah the acreage that we hunt is 10,000+ acres. But during the summer it makes it tough on us because we are having a hard time pinning down their bed during these hot months that they aren't moving. Great Info again and I'll be sure to use it.

I hunt all over Oklahoma and I have one plott that is pretty rangy but mostly hunt cur dogs. I have a buddy who has some closed on trail walker dogs that are very rangy and pretty gritty. I like hunting with them and would love to hunt with you. What kind of hounds do YOU hunt? I am not opposed to hunting open hounds either. My allegiances lie in what will help me and my catch dogs get on the most hogs.

I hunt 5 plotts (one is silent, 4 are semi-open) and one cur dog.

All you plott guys out there, I have one from Joe Burkett of White Deer Kennel and I am pretty happy with him. I have heard that a lot of plotts aren't very gritty, mine isn't. He bays back pretty far, but he has enough back up with my cur dogs that he really doesn't need to be. I wonder if anyone has some lines that are super gritty? I am fascinated by the plott breed and would like to hunt more.

One of mine is a Joe Burkett dog, he is just like the dog you mentioned.  I had another Joe Burkett dogs years ago and he was the same way.  There are gritty plotts all over the country, some are used on hogs and a lot on bear.  Bear hunters typically want gritty dogs that will make a dog tree; a bear will walk on dogs that are not gritty, thus you end up with a untreed bear.  The guy most known for gritty, gritty plotts being used for hog is Mike Cauley.  His line is most commonly known as the Bayou Cajun Plotts.  He goes by Cajun on here or you can look him up on Facebook.  I've had several dogs from Mike.  I only have one plott that I would consider gritty, but that is what I want.  I don't want all of my plotts to be real gritty.  I like hunting one or two and I like them to bay.  If the hogs breaks and runs, I'll turn some more in after a couple of hours and eventually he will stop.  When he does, he is usually caught.  There are a lot of other gritty plots on the east coast and in the Wisconsin/Michigan area; they aren't known of because a lot of those kind don spend time advertising dogs or bosting about them on websites.  They are serious bear hunters that like their dogs and could care less what others think.

Wow, great info!! I really appreciate you guys being as honest as you all are!! Thats cool that your burkett plott and mine have similar temperaments! I am definitely enamored with the breed and every plott I have seen seems to have a lot of the characteristics that I want to hunt with!

Some of it is going to depend on how open mouth your new hounds are.  If they are open mouth from the time they leave your pickup your cur dogs that you have always ran are going to be cornfused as hell LOL.   All that barking they are going to be running around like what the hell is going on trying to go to the barking dogs.

Another thing , if you have never ran with truly open mouth hounds you may be shocked at how loud they can really be.  Also if you run those hounds with your curs I have seen cur dogs go to being opened mouth and once that happens there is no going back to like they were closed are tight mouthed its over .  So I would be real careful and study on what I really wanted to do before I went and bought open dogs  .

I went with a man one time he had a hound and from the time he turned him loose till the time he put him up he never stopped barking .  My dogs were going crazy running trying to figure out what was going on as a matter of fact he was down at the river on a very high river bank and he was barking so loud that my dogs were crossing the river going to his echo and that aint no BS buddy .  I like to never got my dogs back but when I did I went to loading dogs and  just told him either we are running your hound by himself are we are running mine .  It was crazy man those closed mouth dogs look like somebody plugged them in to a 220 outlet all my dogs were rattled as hell.

That was the end of it for me .  I have never ever ran my dogs with any kind of open mouth dog again. Everybody is different but I just could not stand all the racket while I was hunting hogs now coons is a different story but I just could not take it with hog hunting .

I have hunted with a few hounds like Jimmy is talking about and they were colder nosed dogs...the dogs I had back then were hot nosed dogs and after a while they quit running and checking him...even when that one dog bayed a hog...

but then you have those fast tracking hounds that open some on a smoking track...those I like...reminds me quite a bit of the certain strains of mt curs that hunt that way...

Ok, thanks! Yeah most of the plotts that I have talked about adding to my pack are mostly quiet but sound off as the trail heats up. I don't know if I could handle a dog that bawled every step, but a dog that was kind of letting you know what they were smelling would be pretty cool especially once you got to know the dog!

There are hounds out there that babble & I am talking about dogs that are barking & they have no track. These are culls. Any dog that is open should not be barking, unless they are running a track.
  I have hunted curs with hounds for thirty years. Up until the last seven years & since then I have gone all plotts. I have said it before & this is my experience, running curs with hounds will not make them open on track anymore then making my plotts shut up, running with silent cur dogs. Gentics, whether curs or hounds is what dictates if a dog is open or not.
  The plotts seem to make curs run longer & especially when the track is heated up, they run better. There are a lot of curs that just do not have the nose hounds do & that is why they are not interested in colder tracks. To me, these are culls. All the curs I had in the past had really good noses & they were silent. JMO

X2 on what Cajun said...I like a cold nosed cur that can move a track...one that can find hogs quickly if they are there...a couple of gritty plotts of the same type...

Most of my curs have about a 1/4 running walk in them for range and bottom. This has worked for us in are hogdogs and cow dogs.

You got one? Because ive sure never seen a cur dog take a day old track like a Blood hound. hell ive never seen a cur take a 8 hr track

They do have them out there. Of course conditions play a role in that too but that is another topic.

Lol!!!!!!!  That's funny.

Just curious id like to hunt behind him if he has one wasn't trying to be a smart A just never seen one EVER

The world is a big place out there...the cur dogs exist and I've hunted behind a few.  It's hard for people to consider a cur dog cold, when all they've ever seen is a cur dog take 30-45 min old sign or has never really tried track hunting. 

X2 they are out there just gotta know who has them

   I quit testing my cat's noses at around two hours but I know they have taken colder  . and there are several that are used for blood trailing on day old tracks  . most are capable of it and with work can be taught to grub out tracks .. working on drags , so you can know how old the track is , is the best way to do it . it takes some coaxing on the older dogs but if worked from pups they will take to it easier . there is one Catahoula I heard of that was used exclusively for downed deer had no trouble working 12 and 15 hour old tracks   .

I seen a pound puppy shetzoo looking dog on the discovery channel one time who was trained to sniff out cancer cells. It ain't a matter of nose folks, it's a matter of what's in their brain to do with what they smell.

T bob,, I'd have to agree with you in that all dogs are supposed to be able to smell the same but like you said its up to what the individual dogs brain wants to do with the smell. We trained a handful of narcotics dogs back inthe day of a few different breeds and you'd be surprised at what they can smell if motivated.

If easttexasoutlaw gets invited to see the cold nose cur dog I want invited too.  I aint seen one in many, many years.

x2...

I'm in the same boat as you and I agree w you 100% only difference is I'm still in the transition period but almost there lol

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If they are out there someone please find me one i will pay whatever it cost to have a hound nose on a cur. I personally do not believe a cur nose will ever come close to the coldest nosed hounds jmo

It's all about having the right dog! Wether that's an open plott hound or a silent cur dog, I've been lucky enough to be brought into the sport with a breed of cur dogs that have a cold nose and will go run a track until they find what's at the other end! But I will not leave out the fact that we have two plotts In the pack. In the experience that I've had the plotts being open did not effect us catching a hog or not. If the dogs you run have the noses and the drive you will be fine wether it opens up at the trails start or at the end of it! You will catch hogs ether way with the right dogs. It's all about drive.

I agree. I believe you will have those anomilies and some cur that you hunted with down the line might have a super cold nose. But as far as consistently breeding, hounds have genetically better noses. And can REPRODUCE those cold noses consistently