EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

HOG & DOGS => DOGS ON HOGS => Topic started by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 09:34:42 pm



Title: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 09:34:42 pm
Me and my buddy went hunting last night to a place we rarely hunt. I had seen a big boar there right before dark. Well anyways we dumped them and walked a creek bottom got a bay ran up to an got into a field and the dogs came back. We shined the light in the  field and saw a pink hog right by us the dogs bayed it up we tryed to call them off but they wouldnt and the hog broke on to another property whos we didnt know or have a permission. We herd a guy yell close to the dogs but we were to scared to go up there so we got picked up by a buddy took us to our truck. And my dog was in the same place on the garmin his wasnt he was moving. But my dog wasnt barking.I was getting nervous hours later found his dog. Then we called the police to try and get them to go in there with us to get the other two dogs. But they couldnt because we didnt know where his drive way was.Then we called his other dog in. Mine was still not mioving same place collar was still on. At three we called it quits to come back in the morning. So this morning around 10 i was freaking out and wanted my dog or too know what happpened to her. I had to diff buddies go with me to look we walked up there and realized he had no fences and half domestic half wild hogs everywhere free roaming. We saw the guys shack and went around it to the last place she was by this time the collar was dead. We walked up to hog pins and there she was laying down on a pallet dead without both collars and no phone calls. i was sick to my stomach just disgusted the best dog i have ever owned top noch in our pack of fours dogs we have together. Well i knew the cops couldnt help unless i found his drive way. Well it took till four oclock i met his neighbor and herd how much problems they have with eachothother. Then i called the elemendorf sheriffs dept. A sheriff showed an hour and half later. We went to his house got both collars back.showed the police the dog and the guy said he beat it with a pipe till it died. Saw about a hundred free ranging hogs just everywhere. The police said they cant do anything to him because he has pins for the hogs even though he only had 4 in a pen. and the rest can go wherever. I really want some help i want to press charges on this guy i dont want him to get away with this if i can do something about it. This is the best dog i have ever owned been on over 800 hogs she was a good one. R.I.P SPICE. PLEASE HELP


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: cantexduck on August 26, 2009, 09:43:00 pm
 I am really sorry about your dog.


   Please pm Monteria(Steve) and see what advice he can offer to you.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 26, 2009, 09:44:32 pm
Man, that's a tough one... was it his property and his "livestock"? Might need to get some legal advise on this one... maybe Paul, Silverton Boar Dogs, will know a little more on this.

I hate to hear that... sorry for your loss.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 09:45:16 pm
Thanks. I want some ideas on what the laws are.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 09:46:50 pm
Mike   I understand that but how can they be livestock when they can roam everywhere.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: 2joe on August 26, 2009, 09:49:29 pm
That sux!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: make-em-squeel on August 26, 2009, 09:51:22 pm
Call a lawyer, thats why i have pre paid leagul its only 20 bucks a month.. what did the sheriff say about him beeting the dog to death with a pipe?? that cant be leagul!
I think the real lesson learned is always go to the dog asap and deal with the problem we have permission to get our livestock if it goes on another property!


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 26, 2009, 09:51:50 pm
Mike   I understand that but how can they be livestock when they can roam everywhere.

Man, I don't know... hopefully someone can answer that for us.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 09:54:38 pm
Makemsqueel Yeah we Would have but we herd the crazy guy yelling. Today when i saw where he lived. WIth no power or electric no running water and his house was about as small as a normal bathroom.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 26, 2009, 09:54:57 pm
Guys, i'm only gonna say this once... leave the negative comments out of this post. Keep your private thoughts private.

The man is asking for help.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: sm159144 on August 26, 2009, 09:57:40 pm
They are not considered livestock. About 5 years ago in arkansas a case similar to this happened except it was with a cow. I remember to this day exactly what happened cause when I was a kid I always thought about hunting cows. Anyways, a guy had free ranging cows that roamed wherever they wanted. There was a guy deer hunting and decided to take one out. He shot it loaded it with a tractor and took it to a butcher. The owner found out and pressed charges only to find out that because there were NO fences and NO brands he couldn't do anything about it. It was simply a wild cow. This seems terrible but if you can keep your dogs body and get it turned in as animal abuse and prove it in court he will see prison time. I'm sorry about your dog and just hearing about it really clinches my fist. I might have to come to you and help you get some GOOD OLE SOUTHERN JUSTICE BROTHER!! It's best to keep it in the courtroom though.  best of luck to you


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nosightsneeded on August 26, 2009, 09:57:40 pm
man I hate to hear that any sick daddy didn't marry mommy that can beat a dog to death with a pipe is a Sorry sob.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: a-khunter on August 26, 2009, 09:58:26 pm
real sorry to hear about your dog.  i hope you get some justice!!!


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nosightsneeded on August 26, 2009, 10:00:05 pm
thats prob the website replacing a few words but you get my point


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 10:01:55 pm
Sm You dont think him having pens would change anything the hogs do run where ever they want. But he does have some penned up but thats not the ones we had bayed up.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Swine Stoppers on August 26, 2009, 10:03:37 pm
Sorry about the loss he sounds like one of them guys you just wanna make dissapear. I heard a story like that before theres a lady up around pleasonton that feeds wild hogs like that. She has sued a couple of people for shooting them. When she catches new hogs she takes them to a vet and has them castrated or spayed.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: cantexduck on August 26, 2009, 10:08:22 pm
 Being pened up of not doesnt change the fact that he owned the pigs......... He has the right to protect his livestock(pigs) but that doesnt included beating a dog to death with a pipe. If your cow gets out of the pasture it is still YOUR cow................


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 26, 2009, 10:11:05 pm
Sorry for your loss. Being livestock doesent have anything to do with how they are contained. It is not against the law to kill a dog that is attacking your livestock.

Here is the Law,

Sec. 822.011.  DEFINITIONS.  In this subchapter:

(1)  "Dog or coyote" includes a crossbreed between a dog and a coyote.

(2)  "Livestock" includes exotic livestock as defined by Section 161.001, Agriculture Code.



Added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.





Sec. 822.012.  CERTAIN DOGS AND COYOTES PROHIBITED FROM RUNNING AT LARGE; CRIMINAL PENALTY.  (a)  The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that the owner, keeper, or person knows is accustomed to run, worry, or kill livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may not permit the dog or coyote to run at large.

(b)  A person who violates this section commits an offense. An offense under this subsection is punishable by a fine of not more than $100.

(c)  Each time a dog or coyote runs at large in violation of this section constitutes a separate offense.



Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.011 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.





Sec. 822.013.  DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS.  (a)  A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:

(1)  any person witnessing the attack; or

(2)  the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.

(b)  A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

(c)  A person who discovers on the person's property a dog or coyote known or suspected of having killed livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may detain or impound the dog or coyote and return it to its owner or deliver the dog or coyote to the local animal control authority. The owner of the dog or coyote is liable for all costs incurred in the capture and care of the dog or coyote and all damage done by the dog or coyote.

(d)  The owner, keeper, or person in control of a dog or coyote that is known to have attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls shall control the dog or coyote in a manner approved by the local animal control authority.

(e)  A person is not required to acquire a hunting license under Section 42.002, Parks and Wildlife Code, to kill a dog or coyote under this section.



Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Renumbered from Health & Safety Code Sec. 822.033 and amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1002, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.




Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 26, 2009, 10:13:33 pm
Paul, I kinda figured that on the livestock issue... but what aboutbeating the dog with a pipe?

Couldn't charges be filed for that?


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 26, 2009, 10:14:49 pm
This means that by law, domestic hogs are livestock, feral hogs are exotic livestock.

§ 161.001. DEFINITIONS.  (a) In this chapter:                              
      (1)  "Animal" includes livestock, exotic livestock,
domestic fowl, and exotic fowl.
      (2)  "Commission" means the Texas Animal Health
Commission.                
      (3)  Repealed by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 604, § 5.                      
      (4)  "Exotic livestock" means grass-eating or
plant-eating, single-hooved or cloven-hooved mammals that are not
indigenous to this state and are known as ungulates, including
animals from the swine, horse, tapir, rhinoceros, elephant, deer,
and antelope families.
      (5)  "Exotic fowl" means any avian species that is not
indigenous to this state.  The term includes ratites.
   (b)  References in Subchapter A, C, D, E, or H  of this
chapter to "livestock," "domestic animals," "domestic fowl," or
other specifically named animals shall be construed to include all
or part of the carcasses of those animals.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 10:15:11 pm
I mean i dont know how they woould consider them live stock when some of them are wild. They are cross breed between domestic and wild but they all run free.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Swine Stoppers on August 26, 2009, 10:15:40 pm
Being pened up of not doesnt change the fact that he owned the pigs......... He has the right to protect his livestock(pigs) but that doesnt included beating a dog to death with a pipe. If your cow gets out of the pasture it is still YOUR cow................
That depends if someone hits it in there vehicle then nope.  ;D


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 26, 2009, 10:15:59 pm
I am checking on the pipe...


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: sm159144 on August 26, 2009, 10:19:02 pm
I really don't think the pens should have anything to do with it. This is odd but it's the truth and falls under the same category. A man was driving down a dirt road by a farm and there was a cow around the corner. He didn't stop in time and hit it. Killed the cow and totaled his truck. The farmer sued but the guy received a check for how much his truck was worth. It's the farmer's fault if the cows are out and not herded back in. Those hogs were on the land you had permission to hunt/own/lease or whatever. If you turn this in to a big organization that specializes in animal abuse and stuff like that, even if him having a pen does matter, I'm sure they can blow this case up and put this guy in jail if he beat your dog to death. Nowaday killing an animal like that is about the same as killing a human being. It was the guys fault for not having "his" hogs in a pen. I would just get ahold of an organization man, they probably can even come up with the funding to fight this thing out for you if you are willing to put in all the time and explaining you will have to do. Main thing is that you have a report that the officer went there with you and witnessed what he also thought to be was a dog that had been beaten to death on a pallet at this crazy guys house.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 26, 2009, 10:21:26 pm
Let me be clear, feral hogs are classed as "exotic Livestock" they belong to the person who's land they are standing on.

In this case it does not matter if the hog in question was feral, domestic, in a pen, or free range.

This means that any dog ,that bays or catches a feral hog on properity that you don't hve permission to hunt, can be killed by the properity owner, his agent, or a witness to the attack.



Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 26, 2009, 10:36:59 pm
In the law it says a dog that is attacking livestock/ exotic livestock may be killed, but it doesn't say how it may be killed.

My advise to you is to go talk to the sheriff yourself, and then talk to the DA, Then talk to a local attorney. Your only hope is to be able to prove that your dog was not "attacking" the hog. Anything can happen when you get the ball rolling. You could argue that the lose hogs were an entrapment.

This is a horrible incident and regrettable. I am sorry to have to give you this answer.

Sorry,
Paul T


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 10:40:25 pm
It sucks that can he can get away with it. If they were all penned up and the dogs got in there and hurt them i would think it was my fault. But being they were on the property i was hunting and went to this crazy guys land. I just wish the laws were better. One good way to look at it is the neighbor said i can come hunt his hay field with a gun and shoot all i please. But you cant come by a dog like that ever. Have seen 2 personally that i would consider even close to that good.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Monteria on August 26, 2009, 10:44:46 pm
There is no question that Paul is correct on all counts.

If it were me though, Id try to get a little creative...... Your not going to get a conviction but you might be able to get a little satisfaction from pressing for an animal cruelty charge. If he could beat your dog to death with a pipe, he could have just as easily caught her and tied her out. Id be arguing that as soon as he laid a hand on the dog, it no longer presented a danger to domestic stock, certainly could not have been "attacking it, and at that point he just killed it to be cruel. Id be strummin on heart strings with the DA and local news.

Another thing I would do, if you are absolutely certain that the pigs are domestic crossed with wild, is involve the TAHC and file a report against him. I'm sure that if I did enough digging, I could find several statutes against breeding domestic to wild stock and releasing them into the wild, improper containment of trapped feral hogs, etc. It would not provide direct resolution but it may provide you with some satisfaction and what goes around comes around so....

Steve


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Bump on August 26, 2009, 10:50:35 pm
Chance

I hope you take Paul's advice and follow up on this. There may or may not be much legally than can be done, but I wouldn't give up. Like Steve had mentioned the other day...talk to sheriff, DA, an attorney, call the news. Raise some he11 over this. Make some things miserable for him.

Sorry for your loss. Where was this?


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 10:53:41 pm
Man yall are alot of help i really appreciate everything i want this sob to suffer just like she had to for doing whats he loved. I doubt i will sleep if yall knew what this creepy guy looked like and all the crazy crap he said to me right next to the sheriff. Asking me where i lived my dads name. Saying i am lucky the cop told him not to get his gun. That he would press charges for tresspassing and hurting his hogs. I am sick to my stomach


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: wrangler on August 26, 2009, 10:54:02 pm
It would seem to me that this would, at minimum, be a civil case, but I would think you may still be able to get law enforcement involved. While it is true that in Texas a person has the right to kill a dog or coyote that is attacking livestock, I would have to say that if the officer who responded to the call documented in his report or recorded what this person said in regards to beating the dog to death with a pipe may be in your favor in a civil suit. You may want to look at;

Texas Penal Code sec. 42.092. Cruelty to Nonlivestock Animals -

(8) “Torture” includes any act that causes unjustifiable pain or suffering.

(b) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:

(1) tortures an animal or in a cruel manner kills or causes serious bodily injury to an animal;

(d) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:

1) the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person's livestock animals or damaging the person's crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery;

I would think  this person would have to prove that your dog had injured or klilled one of his livestock animals first off, and second that it was justified it BEAT this animal to death. I would not think the law was written to include the killing of an animal in a cruel manner.

I think the advised given by Silverton Boar Dogs is on the mark "My advise to you is to go talk to the sheriff yourself, and then talk to the DA."

Sorry for your loss, and best of luck to you.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: cantexduck on August 26, 2009, 10:57:53 pm
   Call everyone under the sun tomorrow. Write down who you call, what they.you said in the conversation. E-mail those people to follow up on friday. You only need one person to get the ball rolling.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: wrangler on August 26, 2009, 11:01:44 pm
Don't know where the little face thing came from, but there is suposed to be a 8 there. Sorry about that.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Monteria on August 26, 2009, 11:02:43 pm
Another thought concerning the TAHC and a little revenge......

70 some odd percent of all feral hogs in TX have pseudorabies. If they are in fact cross bred and running free, I would catch 4 or 5 of them in a live trap (you don't want to be killing another mans domestic stock now), have your vet draw blood and send it to ATM for testing. Guaranteed that some will come back positive and you will get a call from the TAHC in short order. The TAHC will ask you to identify the physical location of the pigs, which you give them willfully of course. They will quarantine and order the destruction of every pig on the property. Additionally, they may site him for improper containment, release of previously captured feral hogs etc.

Trust me, I know this one from personal experience...... 23 wild hogs ordered destroyed and burned after trying to do the right thing and spending <$400 on tests......

Steve


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 11:03:29 pm
This happened off 181 in elemendorf tx. South of san antonio about 20 miles


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 11:08:15 pm
Thats what i dont understand the only reason he has these pigs is to make money he is a broke man. He has people come shoot them often. But gets mad when is neighbor has paid hunters that come out and elminate them. He gets mad calls the game warden but they cant do anything because they free roam. Which is why i am confused if they are livestock cause if a cow comes onto to your property they cant be shot you have to leave them.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: cantexduck on August 26, 2009, 11:16:12 pm
Thats what i dont understand the only reason he has these pigs is to make money he is a broke man. He has people come shoot them often. But gets mad when is neighbor has paid hunters that come out and elminate them. He gets mad calls the game warden but they cant do anything because they free roam. Which is why i am confused if they are livestock cause if a cow comes onto to your property they cant be shot you have to leave them.

 BUT, if that cow started stomping your dogs, you can kill it. 


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Sean on August 26, 2009, 11:16:37 pm
it makes me sick to think of a good working dog going out in this manner. very sorry for your loss, and i hope you can do something legally to make him pay for such a horrible act. RIP Spice :(


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 26, 2009, 11:18:08 pm
Thanks i want to put a stop to him. I am sick


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: FcHogDog on August 26, 2009, 11:20:06 pm
I dont even know what to say.  I feel really bad for you.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Monteria on August 26, 2009, 11:27:02 pm
Think about this clearly for a minute. The game wardens concern is the enforcement of game laws. The Sheriffs concern is the enforcement of civil law and criminal law. The TAHCs concern is the transmission or potential transmission of disease, particularly psudorabies and Brucellosis in swine, and/or diseased animals regardless if they are domestic or feral.

Steve


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Dexter on August 26, 2009, 11:33:11 pm
nollkamperc
 bro sorry for your loss,,, i believe id be building me a super trap when the hog buyers start buying again .. then what  you cant catch
time for several big guns and do some mowing
 but then again the rabies route might be a good way to go to
           
        rip Spice
       Dexter


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: TrueBlueLacys on August 26, 2009, 11:53:41 pm
Disgusting.

The TAHC is a good route, but I'd definitely contact the sheriff and the DA about animal cruelty charges. The law says you can kill an animal harming your livestock but it also says you cannot kill them in a cruel manner. If he had a gun to shoot you, he had a gun to shoot your dog, and beating it to death with a pipe was completely unnecessary. I also agree with Steve that if he could catch it to beat it, it was no longer proving a danger to the livestock.

Contact all the local papers as well. If you are that close to San Antonio, you should be able to get some clout behind it. Make sure you let the sheriff and DA know you're in touch with the media and they are horrified by the obviously grotesque case of animal abuse. As has been mentioned before, elected officials will most definitely be motivated by the idea of bad PR.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 27, 2009, 12:01:00 am
Revenge outside the law is not the answer my friends. Use all the avenues you can, TAHC, sheriff, media, DA.....

There are two sides to a story like this, this is a crazy man who is making a living off these hogs as best he can. He is setting himself up for a host of problems and is right on the line of the law, one side or the other I don't know. If he is wrong, use the law to handle it.  But, what am I going to do if I find some dogs chasing and baying colts in my mare pasture, or stretching out one of my calves? The law will protect me as it might protect him.

The answer to this problem is to stop it before it starts. A responsible dog hunter should not put his dogs down to hunt on a piece of property where there might be the chance they will track a hog or bay a hog on an adjoining property where they don't have hunting rights and have not talked to the other landowner about retrieval of dogs. Bad things can happen when your dogs are bayed up somewhere they don't belong.

This is a terrible thing that has happened, use it as a wake up call to make sure it doesn't happen to you. Get retrieval agreements with your neighbors and get some handle on your dogs, it could save their lives.

Sorry for your loss, I will help you in any way I can with the legal system.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: pig snatcher on August 27, 2009, 12:37:32 am
If you cant get him prossecuted about the dog.  Would he be held liable in Texas for the dammage his "livestock" did on the propperty you were hunting.  Eating crops, rooting hay fields etc.  Didnt he admit they were his?


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Silverton Boar Dogs on August 27, 2009, 01:13:39 am
If the hogs are livestock he would be liable for the damage, but you could not hunt/kill them. If they are feral he is not liable but you can hunt/kill them.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Eric on August 27, 2009, 01:22:52 am
The key to this is getting making the sherrif get a statement from him in writing. From there you can find the right avenue to persue.

IF he says the hogs are ferral then you get TAHC.... IF he says they are livestock you look into damages, entrapment, and him needing to mark his livestock. Also, hopefully he will mention the pipe incident and you can persue that.

Every one needs to take note of this. We all get excited about the thought of a new spot to hunt and its hard to let one pass.... but get out and meet those neighbors BEFORE you go hunting. IF you don't, you take the risk of some thing like this happening.

How did the land owner you were hunting for not mention a crazy neighbor that has a large herd of free ranging pigs next door?


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: Bump on August 27, 2009, 08:39:12 am

The answer to this problem is to stop it before it starts. A responsible dog hunter should not put his dogs down to hunt on a piece of property where there might be the chance they will track a hog or bay a hog on an adjoining property where they don't have hunting rights and have not talked to the other landowner about retrieval of dogs. Bad things can happen when your dogs are bayed up somewhere they don't belong.

This is a terrible thing that has happened, use it as a wake up call to make sure it doesn't happen to you. Get retrieval agreements with your neighbors and get some handle on your dogs, it could save their lives.

Sorry for your loss, I will help you in any way I can with the legal system.

I did not want to say what Paul said too early but he is exactly right. Hopefully something can be done within the law but stop the problem before it starts.

Every piece of land or ranch I hunt...I either call or go talk to all neighboring land owners. Explain what and how you are hunting. Talk about the possibility of having to retrieve the dog. In my area I have picked up many additional acres to hunt by doing this and minimizing the risk of someone harming your dog.

Good luck with this....please keep us informed on what you do.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: jhy on August 27, 2009, 08:46:07 am
The man had ur dog and l knew who to hold responsible for damages by the info on the collar. However, he elected to kill the dog by cruel and unusual means. U can go at him like that. Next time I wouldan up and always take responsibility for your animals no matter what the circumstances are.
Jmo
Joey


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: nollkamperc on August 27, 2009, 09:40:22 am
Thanks guys i dont think i can get him on anything he considers them his when they are on his place. But they are off his place they are free game thats what i am confused about . And i made the biggest mistake like all you said before scoping it out but hopefully i will learn by this one.


Title: Re: PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!
Post by: uglydog on August 27, 2009, 10:03:29 am
If you are seeking revenge than take it to civil court. Many have told you alrady that beating a dog with a pipe to death is cruel and unusual. You need to get the case report and get the LEO to get staements before anymore time goes by, otherwise  you are just wasting time talking about it.
 
For those of you talking about REVENGE -now that you have publicaly implicated yourself, you may be held responsible, so Go ahead and keep talking the TRASH, sure does not make the Dog hunters look very smart