EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

Let me hear some opinions on trail barking..daylight or dark..running hogs or hogs that stand

Doesn't matter in least bit.... 75% of cur dogs we hunt open once the hog is up and going. We catch 3-400 hogs a year with them.

Speed on the track is what matters.


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Had a ole man tell me when I was a kid,,,, If a hog is gonna run when he sees a dog,, it don't matter if the dog is barkin or not behind him.. Speed of pushing a track and the knowledge of spinning one is the key to a hog dog IMO...

it does matter on a running hog ....if you have ever been in the woods and   get ahead of dogs running a hog silent on track or not and see a hog slipping through and watch it stop cock its head sideways listening for the dogs .... I have and any dog actually open on track behind that hog will have a long day ....... 

LOL,,, Now he didn't ask how long he would be out there Mr. Larry...

Dang good thing I'm coming to get them pups from Barry then lol

Everything is right or wrong depending on what side of the fence your standing on.  I don't see much wrong with it if the dog is good if not its a waste of time effort and money


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Correct track speed and the ability to drift on a track; like not run the track step for step  but swing and keep it running,trying to stay out in front.

Do y'all find it calls the other dogs who could have their own thing goin on ? Could you not be elementing the oppertunity for a split bay because an open dog is pulling others off ?

The open dogs I've hunted and raised are pretty independent so it's never been an issue. I've got to where I like an open cur dog trailing or running and I still catch the big tracks I put out on. Seems like the open cur dog blood is colder then any silent cur dogs I've saw, and it's NOT cuz it's a hound cross neither!

With my dogs I have noticed that they will go to a open dog but if it's bs or they can't pick up what the open dog is on they will not honer it after that. And go do there own thing


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people catch hogs with all kinds of dogs ............I have watched on the garmin  dogs running ahead silent fall back to a dog that  opens .....some  dogs  may just get used to it but I have seen mine  do it .....

I would agree with this. Not to say that a hog won't get out a little bigger lead on an open dog but a track pushing open dog can make that up IMO.

No these are real independent almost to a fault. I had bad trouble with my last set of black dogs the first 10 bays I sent them to they made maybe 3 because they would start and take their own track on the way. Sometimes ours want to run more than bay. I have two gyps that bayed a wad the other day. Some shoats left the group of 15 and cayenne went with them while the other gyp stayed bayed on the wad. Same story last summer bayed two barrs with about 6 dogs, all related, 5 left with the smaller Barr and the black gyp stayed bayed on the other barr. Lots of times I've been stuck standing there pissed looking at 10 hogs in front of me, when about 15 seconds before there 5 dogs there but they all left when a 60# shoats breaks out. It's not a bad thing because it usually leads to catching a lot more hogs but it can sure be frustrating at times.


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Yup!! Do t get me wrong I watched the other day. Dogs had caught a sow and were about 30 min into driving a good sized boar hog. He came out and slipped down the line and the dogs were exactly minute twenty eight behind the hog, I started my stop watch when I saw him. I told Casey I sure wish they would shut up as cayenne sounded like she was letting it out every time  her foot hit the ground. That hog turned into sows and pigs a half mile later. I wish they were quiter and some are but it is what is.



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Dog smart hogs...I don't think it matters much if a dog opens are not with these hogs...they are dog smart because they have had the opportunity to aquire that knowledge...once they know a dog is on them they will bolt and get way ahead and then stop and rest in a thick briar patch or clear cut...when the dogs get close they repeat the process...with these type of hogs the dogs need lots of bottom to run them until brought to bay...I also believe the colder nosed dogs tend to open more...back when hogs were spread out more I liked a cur that opened about 3 times on a hot track to pull the other dogs in...still like those type of dogs...I also am ok with semi open dogs that are fast on track that cut and slash and run with their heads up following wind currents as well...just all around strike dogs...

Few weekends ago i hunted with 2 different guys in different country and both had a open dog on the ground. I hadn't seen my dog struggle that hard to get bayed since I've had her. I sure felt the open dog was pushing them harder than normal. I believe open and slow definitely don't work. I think an open dog better be able to drive it up ones rear end and run in that hogs him pocket to make him bay. I don't know much though


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Rueben hit the nail on the head for my situation. 90% of hunters Round here hunt running Walker's on deer. So all the hogs around here end up getting pushed easily.

Time they here a dog bark they leave the country, you either need something with bottom thatll push em till they quit or a silent dog that can sneak up on em.  That's South GA flat woods and swamps

  if track speed can be an advantage ....... why not silent ???  why can't silent be an advantage  also ???

I don't think anyone is saying it is not, I can't speak for anyone else but what I was saying is its not the end all be all factor. There are other factors more important like track speed, intelligence, nose, bottom, and the innate ability to get a hog to stop. just my own thoughts.

Oh I agree Mr. Larry., one of the best dogs I ever seen hunt was one of urs,, she was 4 yrs old and was hunting that morning with my old male and my parker males daddy.  All three dogs were silent on track and still ran that boar hog for almost 4 hrs,, bayed him 3 different times,,   CD went in on the last bay about 40 yards from us and when he caught the boar hog raked him off when he left out... We talkin 350 pds of pure Russian,,, he prob had been caught before and he wasn't no rookie..   But ,, like said before,, if they gonna run it don't matter if the dogs barkin behind him or not.. Some is just smarter than others to me..

If you choose to run open dogs and your getting outrun, you need better dogs. If you hunt silent dogs, you don't need rougher or looser dogs, you just need better dogs. Quit using the open, rough, loose, hot, cold, wet, dry, thick, bad hogs, smart hogs excuses and strive to get better dogs. You will never be able to catch them all, but the better your dogs the better your hunts, no matter when or where you hunt.

Amen!! Good post .


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X2 try to live by this rule.

why have  message boards if you can't have discussions ? ..... any noise is a disadvantage when trying to catch something wild that's trying to keep away from you .... that's just simple common sense ........ you ever notice when dogs is running a hog and he crosses a road or opening where you can see he or she is usually in a trot .....then here comes the dog or dogs moving most of the time faster than the hog and you think why ain't they catching up to the hog .....well they do but a real runner will stop and listen and if he hears dogs gett'n close   he shifts gears .... my sue dog will hack alittle sometimes do I care no  ...... but no excusses its better for  both of us  if he didn't ........

Mr Parker, you're probably right about dogs being open giving the hogs a bit of an edge, but if these big thicket curs didn't chatter on track it just wouldn't be fair to these poor hogs! Hell, sometimes I tie Cowbells to my dogs collars just for the sake of sportsmanship!  ;D hahahahaha

Ol sue boy..if my dumbass could figure out how to post a picture on here I could sure make you laugh over that dog...I can't wait to see him again and hunt

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Ol mouthy stock put it on them this weekend


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Dang they sure enough put it on em

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We like to give them that sporting chance Terry lol!! Too bad our dogs weren't silent we might have caught a 100 instead of 65

t-shelly I know people that hunt ranch's and marsh that do the same thing big numbers ........if you want to check a dogs effectiveness you hunt where there ain't many and they run bad ......... hey some of mine will hack some in hot sign but it would be better if they didn't ....... t-bob   had two young dogs Monday jumped about 300 yards in and they chattered hahahaha  sounded like they was running a rabbit for about 15 minutes  hahahaha  but they hushed and about 900  yards they set down and had  one bayed ..........

 lol I'm just poking fun. It's an open forum. We can go run them 3-4 hours too! We don't hunt easy country but a few times a year. Most of the time we are in 5k acre blocks of pine plantation and briars.


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We've got some pretty good half Parker/ half cur dogs rolling. The cross has thrown 2 different sets of pretty solid ones. They all talk to a hog once is up though, some more than others but none silent.. Most likely from the sire though he will open leaving on a hit a track.


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I'm just trying to get it out there that it really doesn't matter. Silent or mouthy, a hog dog will put a hog at the end no matter what. Generally everything I've ever been around; the better ones were always mouthier. Some barked every time their foot hits the ground but they produce so much pork they will show you that mouth doesn't matter.


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Better dogs will show u pork all the time don't matter what he dose or is as long as he finds them and gose to the end of the track and holds him bayed


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Well you ether like them or you don't ain't much in the middle


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Ive been doing this barking and no barking thing for 20 years.  I have even done it with Parker before.  The key is find the traits that you value the most in a dog.  If they carry some bad attributes (in your mind) with them....see what you can live with.  Some people will sacrifice nose for being quiet.  Some people will sacrifice grit for speed.  The key is breed or find what is working for you in your area.  My hunting Partners have hunted Open mouthed plot dogs since the mid 80's.  They have consistently caught more or as many hogs as anyone I know.  Their dogs aren't for everyone.  They have fun, hunt hard, and catch a ton of hogs.  My cousin lives in South Florida.  His dogs are quiet, rough, and short range.  They each wouldn't trade for the others best dog; but both catch a bunch of hogs.  Im not sure who I heard this from but I saw this one time:

Breeding dogs aint like mixing paint.  You can't just take black and white and make gray. If you could take nose and bottom, and breed to silent and grit.  It would be that easy.

Think about it

If I took all my spots and added the sizes up and doubled it I don't think it would be 5000 acres. You don't need a lot of land to catch hogs but if roll on groups to catch numbers it helps if you can keep rolling on and get em.  I generally think for every hog you catch there is 10 times that amount in the area. But land usely limits how many u can pull if the numbers are there. It's still impressive to catch the numbers ether way.


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Good post Heat...mixing black and white is easy...but getting the exact shade of gray can be nerve racking because it won't  be easy...and mixing 3 or 4 different colors to get a certain color...It will quadruple the fun...

As a cur dog man, any barking from behind equals cull. If they are barking at a hog they had better be set up about six inches off the end of ones nose, looking it square in it's eyes. ;)

Lol I am a silent dog man myself but I have noticed that sometimes a young dog may babble a little bit behind a hog even though in the end they turn out silent I have seen it with several dogs and several breeds.If they get hogs struck and stopped they ain't no cull... I went down south and hunted some groves a few months back and brought a couple dogs my youngest dog would still get excited when she jumped and yip a little bit behind one even let out a bark if she was biting one trying to stop it the two guy's I met with said that dog's a cull man she's opening on a hog going to scare the rest of the hogs out the grove by the end of the night they were trying to buy her because she made their junk look like junk.Since then she has quieted up and gives one bark when she finds one but then goes silent until bayed.If I'd have listened to the old bs of that dog opened or yipped its a Cull the best dog that's ever laid a turd in my yard would be dead lol.

Would someone explain to me how barking on trail scares hogs so bad they leave the country and baying does not seem to bother them.

This is my take on it. We hunt hogs with a animal as a whole that is less in intelligence then the game it's after. The hog knows that the dog barking is in fact after him and if he stops they will encounter each other. A bayed hog has chosen to stop and face his foe. The surrounding hogs know the dogs are on something other then themselves so they stay put. If they run its usely not to far away. I feel that open or silent makes little difference if the dog is high quality. The distance ran is determined by the dogs effort to stop the hog and the hogs determination to get away on a case by case     


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Judge, I'm not talking about the hog being trailed. I'm talking about the people that say that a dog opening on track will scare all the hogs off the place your hunting. Experience and common sense tells me different. I agree with everything you said in your previous post.

A open dog won't run off the others once they see that it ain't them the dog is after they usley will circle back. And end up where they where that's my opinion. Now if they been run a few times any ones guess what they will do 


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if a dog bays close to other hogs in a block here the others will leave most of the time ....... just stand on the road and watch em cross leaveing the area ....not all do I guess  but most of the time you c an recast same  block and  nothing  they gone after you jump one .....ha and go put a dog on the trail where they crossed and see how far he is  time he catches up .......... hard dogged country is different .......

I don't know why but every one seems to think it's harder to do where they hunt. Some places are harder but they ain't all harder. There are so many doggers in my area it's nuts and we all hunt the same areas. Very few places around here that are bigger then 2500 acres that a single person owns most tracks of land that hold hogs are under 1000. So if joe blo runs dogs few miles away guess what we running the same hogs. Just my opinion


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Maybe that's the difference in our dogs. If they bay a hog and there are more hogs close and they leave... There is no picking our dogs up after the first hog and driving them around to the group of hogs you saw run out. Your not picking most of these up til they are out of gas.The dogs we hunt will leave immediately looking for the next hog and if the hogs close enough to be spooked into running I can guarantee you that something will be running it within minutes of rolling off the first hog. That's just the stock bred sense in them.


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I'm sure everybody that hunts  has places that is ruff to hunt .......  but there is  hard dogged places that make  hunting harder than other places ..... as d oes the terrain you hunt'n ....I run some of the same hogs in the river bottom as  in the swamp believe me the same hogs that I bay will flat run in them row plant pines .....

t-shelly  the dog or dogs  I may have  on the ground that jumps  or bays stays bayed or whatever ......we always  have a couple dogs still on the buggy we will drive up and  put them where some  hogs may have slipped  across out of a block .... now  you know  you jinxed yourself by  saying  what  your  dogs will do  hahahahaha

Are those two cow bred dogs you plan on breeding open.

Lol no jinxing me. Just call it like I see it. Lots of other dogs and lines guys hunt around here will do the same thing

I was told a story from an old timer about 10 years ago. It was from an old timer so it's one you take with a grain of salt but as this story goes... about 20 years ago they did bring one of these stock bred mellman/Perry dogs over there into that hard dogged Country and put it up against the top known Parker dog around. It was in his country.. they turned both dogs loose into a block. A few hours later the Parker dog was picked up few miles down the road. The dog from over here swam the Mississippi River and was bayed solid. Have zero idea if the story has validity but I don't have any reason to not believe him, thought it was a cool story. It was told to me while relating some history on dogs.


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I thought you to be a past cowman judging by your status on here and your obvious hands on knowledge about stock bred cur dogs. No disrespect intended, but have you ever "hunted" truly wild, rank, haredick woods cattle that have been hunted before. I have never seen one or a bunch that would not start to leave out the minute they heard or smelt dogs, or even us for that matter, coming to them. I believe hogs to actually be smarter than "leather bags of steaks" ;D and find it hard to believe that they would not be doing the same if bad pressured. I have nothing against those that hunt open dogs, as I know they can often produce large hauls of pork. Us Florida Cowman have always prided ourselves on quiet(silent and violent) cur cow dogs. Just a regional thing I guess. Let me clarify that I speak of South/Central Florida Cowman, as those families in the Northern part of the state breed entirely different. 

TShelly,
I have no knowledge of that story you heard and definately am not an old timer....
But I can relate a bit to it and tell one I know is true cause I seen it happen.

I used to hunt with couple guys, in Angola pretty regular. One is good friend and he owned two mellmans, a mother and daughter.

This was bout 7-8 or so years ago. If y'all remember this Mississippi River got real high and it was real danger of it topping the levee in places.

We had sand boils along it from MS down to the coast. Was highest ive ever seen it in my 46 yrs.

Was close to topping in BR.

Well Angola state pen is in a horseshoe in the river on purpose so the iates is surrounded on three sides by water. And they was makin emergency plans of evacuation just in case.

we ran one night and all the spots in river bottom we usually ran were way under water so we thought may be some easy pickin with hogs pushed up. We bayed a good group on the levee right next to the river. Caught a few out of the group. We had them two mellmans and some cur dogs. Well we got all split up running around as the ones we caught was all at same time. Once they were takin care of and had chance to check garmins to see where the dogs were. Only two were missing. The mellmans. We could hear em baying. They showed over 100yds straight ahead in Mississippi River with the current pushing like u wouldn't believe. We stood there and called for over and hour and them dogs were baying in that river. We didn't know if they were swimming whole time or moving from snag to snag, which eould have literally been tree tops. But they were singing the whole time. We called and called and they finally came back. I font know if the hogs swam em back in or our calls did it.... But I site thought we'd never see them two dogs again...

Just thought I'd tell that story.

About the barking... Them two dogs did used to pissses off alot cause the cur dogs we hunted with em just were not on same page. They quit honoring the mellmans bays most hunts cause maybe it wasnt got enough for em and or the mellmans maybe jumped a track or sumthing but lot times we have curs honestly working something out closer and silent and have to leave them to keep up with the mellmans that was getn out of range. And then loose communication with the curs and be mile or two away with sporadic communication and one curs may show bayed but we be heading opposite direction tryn keep up with the mellmans and just leave cur and it just didn't work out that great.

Like apples and oranges....

But I can say those two dogs made for some long nights and would literally put ten miles between you and them if you lolly gaged 

I can appreciate them but it did get to where I didn't even want to go anymore with those dogs. Lol

I could be wrong but what I think Bigo was saying is if opening on a track scares everything in the whole area away that wouldn't a bay do the same thing? Meaning all the barking they do baying up a hog would scare everything the same as opening on a track would. Just the way I took it.

Tshelly, are the dogs you hunt mellman bred? As that is what I have. If so I would be interested in hearing more about them


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you can hear all kinds of stories some true some partly true some the person there just filled in the blanks ......  I don't live on the mississipi river and if you was talking about a hunt I made the dog across the river that was suppose to be bayed was showing treed on garmin we unloaded a buggy drove to where it showed him treed checked he was at the truck when we got back to it ...if that's the hunt that's the truth .....it was summer and real hot I believe the dog was  layed down burnt out not bayed  ........my dog was last dog picked up still running a hog after 23 miles on the garmin ...... hey if any of ya'll have mellmans  good luck ...they dogs just like mine  good bad and better ......

No sir they're not open but Holly was a little yippee when she first started striking her own she has since quited up but she was the dog that my buddies said I should cull because she was yippin.

Sort of. Everything o have goes back to CB, my 2 yr old black dogs have CB in them 6 times I believe. Pretty tight.

CB was a black mellman/Perry dog. Slow is known about the Perry I know very little about the mellman side. CB came from Dixie and Jasper. Dixie was a Perry bred dog that can be traced to the 50's. They said jasper was mellman bred. I know really nothing about that side other than he was a smoke bluish and tan trimmed dog.


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That's a cool story and one that we know if true bc you were there. I've had the pleasure of seeing lots of situations similar to what you described the last 10 years behind what I would say are very similar dogs.

I've seen the same problem with different dogs honoring ours as well.


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 t - shelly what is a perry dog ? where come from ? wondering of its the same perry I knew from years ago ?    your mellman side come from the mellmans  ?

Great thread guys......Something to consider.......
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I share a couple of spots with some Coon hunting buddies that run open hounds. They hunt the spots more frequently than we do. We run silent cur dogs. The hogs seem to bay up pretty easy for us when we hunt these places.
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Have the hogs become conditioned to hearing dogs bark that are not pursuing them OR do these particular hogs just not want to run? I don't know the answer. I assure you that our dogs aren't anything special. We catch our fair share but we get out run on other places more than I like to admit! Lol!
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My opinion is that most hog hunters like silent dogs that only bark when they see the hog because they make it easier for the hunter to know what the dogs are doing. It takes patience, experience, and at times a little imagination to know exactly what an open trailing dog is doing.

http://www.easttexashogdoggers.com/forum/index.php?topic=34855

Perry side comes from above and yes. Lloyd and herschell traded dogs all the time with the mellmans.



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Semmes said a mouthful......When I hunted hard and had alot of dogs, I would have a lot of people call and tell me that they wanted a dog that would get gone, find a hog no matter what it took, run him for 1/2 the day and into the night, and be bayed when you got to him.  I got to where my patent answer was ....."dogs like that are way more fun to talk about and brag about than they are to unsnap in the woods"  Just food for thought.

hey heat that joe dog I had would run all day ..you could not catch him off the track ...he'd go three hundred yards around you pick the track back up and gone ......people would ask me  you been hunt'n joe I'd say man I like knowing I own one like him but I'd rather just look at him on the chain most of the time ...

not the same perry I knew .....I haven't heard of those dogs .......

10-4 Just got back from Florida on Wednesday and finally got aholt of a pup from kin. Pics to come in next few days. ;D

I like those kind of dogs and you are right...these dogs will run most of the day  and part of the night...the best thing has been  the Garmin alpha when hunting this type of dog...

As some have said...you can tone them in but you can't make them hunt...hunting those high powered dogs can be very stressful because of all the properties they cross and not to mention when you get them back...but the alpha really has made hunting these type of dogs pleasurable...

Open dogs...I have seen where the dogs will jump and run a hog and me standing there in the area listening to the dogs until out of hearing...and only then I have seen hogs that were laying low get up and slink away silently...seen it more than a few times...hogs will react differently in different areas as well...some is genetics and terrain...and dog education has a lot to do with it...

I don't know a lot about hounds but when I got my best dog he was 1/4 English and silent he had an ok nose but really had a lot of hunt and I started catching hogs more often by the time he was 2 he was everything I wanted we crossed him to my brothers silent red tick she doesn't have a cold nose but a decent nose and good stick. The pups now are a little over a year and I really like them they do trail bark but not like some I have seen it has to be hot sign and usually they get bayed fairly fast if the hog breaks they bark all the way while running it we were able to watch them the other day cross a high line a couple times behind a 265lb boar they did get behind a ways about 10 min but the hog was going through some bad thickets but after about 45 mins of relentless pursuit he had enough and stopped. I got to say the dogs I have now hunt harder wider and have more stick and a little better nose than the curs I have hunted in the past I even bought an older gyp that's open on track we catch a lot more hogs these days with the hound cur crosses I recon I would have stuck with the curs if I would have found some that hunt like these crosses sooner but those are hard to come by where I live I have to admit I kind of like hearing them trail bark now but don't get me wrong I don't like one that barks from the minute it hits the ground I have no use for a dog than barks from the minute its dropped then comes back to the wheeler if its gonna bark it had better get bayed. So in ending I guess trail barking was a by product in my case and so far hasn't been an issue but I guess mainly because they don't trail for miles they usually aren't far behind where they been there are different degrees of everything and I could see where a dog trailing a hog 2 miles away could give it a good head start and lead to a long race but with an open dog that isn't cold nosed and fairly fast it should well make up for the barking. These are just my opinions and experience's .

I hunted hogs with curs, not because they were silent, but because they got the job done to suit me. The old myth of dogs trail barking scaring all the hogs away is BS. Over the many years of hunting, I have hunted with many people with open dogs and I never felt it changed the outcome of a hunt. On a hunt in west Texas with a friend that hunted Plotts, we caught 28 hogs in two mornings on the same place. I caught 4 hogs one morning with an old hound running around opening  but going nowhere and never got off 200 acres. The hound never made it to a bay. I could go on and on. If they are not getting the job done, open or silent, they are just not good enough.
    The same thing go's for breaking bay. If nearly all the hogs you get on are breaking bay, your dogs are causing it. The last few years I hunted, the vast majority of hogs that broke, did so right before the catch dog got to them. The hog would meet the dog head on at full speed and steam roll them. That's like sending a pickup to catch an on coming freight train. The truck looses every time.
     You young hunters that are not set in your ways, don't miss out on a good dog because he is open. If he's a good one, he will get the job done.

If he's wide open, and finding hogs...well y'all PM me cuz I'll sure take em off your hands and feed em ;)

Ol mouthy stock put another 50 head down this weekend

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most people don't have 50 head  of hogs  on all the  land they  have  to hunt ,,,,

https://youtu.be/LxH6W8Hbwws

Back when we track hunted and didn't hunt as much country up north. Pretty cool little video, you have to watch it on a computer though. Doesn't play on cell phones


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It actually play on your phone if you have the YouTube app.


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good video ...don't know if I would use universals logo though ....... is there any briar  patches where ya'll hunt  ?....most every good hog we  catch  you can't hardly see anything ...

Yeah it's mostly youpon. These are just the videos I had on old cell phones. We hunt tons of pine plantation, briar and youpon thickets but you can't even get any video in there


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Maybe my eyes are messed up but I thought that list showed 33 not 50... Where'd the other 17 go?

33 over 50#'s! We caught another 20 shoats throughout the weekend in all the chaos


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Oh ok... I was starting to think I couldn't read.