EAST TEXAS HOG DOGGERS FORUM

I have a question for the BMC guys....I have a Ladner BMC who I'm pretty happy with except for one thing, this dog will not let me mess with his muzzle or ears if I'm trying to doctor him, won't let me pull cactus out of his lips or muzzle/nose or clean ears etc.  He will bite me if I try too hard.  I snap his collar to a chain link fence to restrain him but he goes apenumber 2 and I can't do much.   I started handling his ears face etc. when he was 7 weeks old and he's always been this way. Is this unusual with this breed?   Thanks..Mike B

unusual yes, i have had 1 do it in all my years of owning them, not common though

You’re a better man than me, he bites me once and I promise you he’ll know I bite harder. I’m a firm believer in you don’t bite the hand that feeds you. To me that’s a total sign of disrespect because he’s been messed with all his life and knows you aren’t a threat. Don’t matter what breed either, they better know their place. If I have spent the time to teach them how to do cart wheels, they better dang well do cart wheels when I tell them to. They are no different than my kid or horse in that regard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I should say that I would be somewhat understanding of the cactus but the rest of it NO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have had several ladners and dogs that were part Ladner. I’ve had one of the full ladners growl at me over a food bowl and I gave him a lengthy come to Jesus meeting using that metal bowl and he’s never done it since. None of mine have ever acted out of the way just for touching them, the 2 full ladners have been a little hot with other dogs, especially when they were under a year old.

I would not deal with one getting nasty towards me or a family member. First time they get a physical lesson to permanently fix it in their heads to never do that again. I’ve not had a dog give me a problem after that but if they did I would cull them on the spot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never seen that before. He’s got a crossed wire somewhere, doesn’t mean he’s not a good dog though.

It’s a tough one. I am probably a little more analytical on this than some, there’s a difference between a snap and a bite. Dogs can’t talk to us so their only way of defense is fight or flight, if he’s tied up then he only has one option. Even if you hobble and muzzle him you still cannot work on his head so that doesn’t help.

If he’s just a mean dog or an a$$hole, that’s one thing. If you’ve hand raised him from 7 weeks and he’s doing this there is a deeper issue. Ear problem, mouth problem etc.

IMO if he’s biting he is not be going to be able to stay around even as a house dog because the first thing people are inclined to do is walk up and scratch their head.

Snapping and biting are only different in the sense that one is a warning and one means you shouldn’t have done that. I’m not ok with either. If you have to tend to it and he snaps at you then all that means is the next one is a bite. I would agree that there could be an underlying issue except he’s always been like that. For that reason I lean more towards faulty wiring. If he doesn’t mind biting for one reason he likely won’t mind biting for another. JMO of course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another time I tried to remove cactus from his mouth area I fastened the leash to a tree, got out my Leatherman and  when I tried to grab the cactus he started biting the Leatherman, I got mad and yelled at him, he took a step backward and started snarling/growling and showing his teeth at me, like a Jekyl and Hyde.....Really surprised me. 

As a 7 week old pup the pup should have been broke of any aggression…a hard slap on top of the head and and again if the pup keeps growling and or hackled up…when the pup starts wagging his tail is the time to pet them up…this usually happens at feeding time with some pups…when the pup that shows aggression at feeding time it must be totally broken from any aggressive issues by feeding and messing with the pup until it doesn’t hackle up…might take a while to break him and then test regularly when feeding to make it a normal condition…

When disciplining a dog we should leave the dog a way out…you want the dog to retreat away from you so you can maintain alpha status…if you corner a dog or the dog feels he doesn’t have a way out he will take a stance and fight back or come out fighting…the last thing you want is for the dog to lose respect for you…

I can and will come down on any of my dogs but I know better than to put a dog in a situation where he feels that he or she has to fight their way out…we just need to know when and how much discipline to apply for the correction needed…

I also think when disciplining a dog we must maintain our cool…once in a while we do need to make a statement…

If I had a dog that I couldn’t break from possibly biting someone I would eventually get rid of it…

Lots of the strain of Curs I have will bite a stranger at my house or truck and trailer if me or my wife aren't with you, but once turned loose they pay strangers no attention at all, they are looking to work. Haven't had any want to bite me in normal handling but a few didn't want to take a whipping.

Can you give him a hard correction or does he get growly at a certain point?

I've never whipped him, a slap on the head is the most I've had to do.  The only time He acts up is if I'm trying to doctor his face area, the other day I chased him off his food bowl and he backed up and bared his teeth at me (twice)..He minds good, is very affectionate, it's just that if he feels threatened he changes into a  jerk. If I tried to hold his collar and give him a whipping I'm sure he would try to bite me.

Sounds like as much or more that he’s challenging you than feeling threatened. He wouldn’t make it here. You can probably fix a lot of that but the way I am, I wouldn’t like his natural demeanor enough to feed him another kibble. We all have vises that we will tolerate when it comes to dogs. For me, biting and fighting are my two biggest dislikes. I have ZERO tolerance for either. Either get along or you’ll get along lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks everyone for the advice and input....

Yep…when the dog feels threatened and defends himself and you backed down…now the dog knows he can challenge you anytime he dislikes something you want from him…it is much harder to break a dog once this happens…know when and how much is key…

Even a chihuahua will come out fighting when he feels threatened when cornered…

That is why I said earlier that you must know when and how much discipline to apply…if you like your dog

It's become a pecking order issue now, he knows he can back you off with a growl or bite and it's not that he will do that all the time but he will any time you truly try to force him to do something he doesn't want to.

I have too many people around and in my dog yard including kids to tolerate that. I'm not telling you what to do but I would cull the dog. You may not want to hear that but I could not take the risk of the dog biting someone. I would not even feel comfortable selling or giving the dog away even if the person taking him knew the dogs history because in my head it's still on me. That is just how I think about things to each his own.

Good luck.

The bottom line…

Example using a feeding scenario because it is simple and easy to correct and it applies to the majority of discipline issues that come up…

We feed the pup and it growls and hackles up…give it a good tap on the head always keeping your cool…the pup will know if your doing it with anger…

Keep messing with the food bowl,and the pup growls again… give a harder tap on the head…keep working with the feed bowl or something close to the food bowl and repeat the process until the pup wags its tail…only at that time you pet the pup…repeat daily until he totally gets the hang of it…

The idea is for the pup to get the message…and not only to get the message but for the pup to remain confident and trusting around you…when you can do that you will have a better relationship with the pup and eventually, the dog that it will become…

Another thing…no self respecting dog will take excessive discipline…choose how you discipline wisely…usually, you can discipline most any dog you own as long as it has a way to retreat…

In my yard I have done lots of correcting…I have learned that when correcting they will circle back to me and lick my hand, I call it asking for forgiveness…at least that is how I see it and it also builds trust when I accept their apology…

Maybe I didn't elaborate enough...The dog only gets chitty when I try to doctor his face area, I can handle or touch the face area otherwise with no problems. When he was a tiny pup he growled at me once when eating,  I smacked him,  picked up his bowl and he never did it again. I can pick up hs bowl while he's eating no problem.  The other day there was another dog standing next to him and  for some reason I picked up his bowl, yelled at him and he retreated 3-4 feet and breifly bared his teeth, no growiling.  He's very possesive about food or bones around other dogs. He minds very well in every other way...

Reuben that is all fine and dandy but that ship has already sailed for taps to correct aggression issues now. This is a grown dog baring teeth over things he doesn't like. And every time another issue happens and he gets away with it, it just reinforces it more in the dog. At this point there are only three ways to deal with it, and only the last two would be viable to me. One is he could just ignore it and or do his best to not get in those situations with the dog and hope none of his loved ones do either. Two cull the dog. Or three do the work to break the behavior. Watch how a professional trainer breaks this behavior in a grown dog, it takes work, commitment, and consistency and depending on how bad it actually is at this point it might be more than most regular dogs owners are willing to do or can do.

Also if I raised them then I can discipline them whether they have a way to retreat or not and if I couldn't they wouldn't be here long. I agree there are always limits but if you are a good handler then you shouldn't need to make many "hard" corrections and even those should be done intelligently and within reason. Association is everything when it comes to dog training, so it's always good to keep that in mind with all of your interactions with your dogs. This is all just my opinion so take it for what its worth.

My woman has a husky/malamute cross that is about as smart as dog can be….about most things. She is an inside dog mostly and been pampered and spoiled all her life, she’s 5-6 years old. I had NO part in raising her. She was grown when we got together. Now if she doesn’t want to do something she won’t. She will literally lay there and decide if she wants to, or if she’s going to, or if it’s to hell with whatever you say. That doesn’t fly with me. I tell my kids and MY dogs once, second time there is action. So twice now I’ve told her to do something and she didn’t, totally shot me the sign sometimes confused for being #1. So I reach down and get her by the collar and she reaches around the first time and bites me. She understood pretty quick that that was a bad decision. She was fine after that for about 6-8 months. Then she did it again. This time when I got her by the collar she bit me about 5 times. It looked and sounded like bar room brawl after that. She now believes in the devil. When I say to do something now there is no contemplating. She gets up and goes right now. Everyone involved has been put on notice, she’s got two strikes and third strike will be the ball game! She’s also one that will growl and most likely bite if you get near her food when she’s eating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rednose…I totally agree with you…

I have been dealing with dogs many years and most of my corrections have been in the back yard…which includes breaking them off deer…breaking dogs is very easy and simple for me including getting the best out of them simply by doing the right things at the right time…doing the right things at the right time is key…I will venture to say that the inexperienced won’t even know training or corrections are taking place when my dogs are running free in the back yard or even when hunting…
What I was actually saying in my last post had mostly to do with building the right foundation with a pup so that the progression towards mature does have to end with issues like desertdog is having with his dog…

T-dog…my bet is that the dog you are dealing with will strike-out…but hoping for the best…

Lol I hoping your wrong and betting your right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had a little bulldog pup recently who was a little hot from the beginning.  Got him at 5 weeks old,raised him in the house around the kids. About 7 months old he got  growly over the food bowel,then it was going in the crate or outside...he didn't want to go. He walked in the house behind my lady and she told him out. He stared at her and wouldn't budge,she yelled at him and he  made the move out not before showing her some tee. 1. Night dogs struck 1 and  I went to unsnap him he tried to eat my azzz. He was lifeless coming of the box....moral of the story....to many chances and somebody gonna get hurt

Years ago a friend of mine had an awesome black brindle female…she was as good as they come as a catch dog…one of her sons was a black brindle as well, my favorite color…
We took him on a hunt one night and he was acting up terribly and I could see it was all a handling issue…I glared at that dog and thought…if you were my dog I’d beat your a$$ and straighten you out…we made eye contact and that was it, the rest of the hunt if could of got loose he would of had to die because he would have attacked me… learned something that night…lol

Rueben,exactly this dog was smart. Like tdog  said ,we also went a couple rounds. This dog from a pup was hot.Og and chinamen?? If I remember. This sob could turn inside his own skin. Funny thing is he never showed any interest in other dogs,just people

The Eli/Chinaman dogs used to throw occasional maneaters...

Maybe there is a deeper issue, does it seem like it causes him pain when you mess with them? Is it only when there’s something causing him pain or when he’s fine too? That’d be a tough one to work around but I’ve had a couple that would get aggressive when it came to stapling them or when they were hurt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry I guess the post updated right after I replied. But that dog sounds pretty wild if he’s doing all that especially if you’ve raised him from 7 weeks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No. he's just never liked anyone messing with his feet or ears, it took a couple years but he's good about his feet but if I'm trying to  doctor his ears or face area he rapidly builds anxiety and it becomes snapping and trying to escape if I continue....He's weird in other ways also...