Around here we rarely take them alive, unless its to train some younger dogs. I say kill him, all of them. Of course my grandfather is a rancher and a farmer, and I work on his place and our hog population is here to stay. Ive seen too much of the destructive side of the hogs. They tear up farm land, and slaughter our turkey population.  Doesnt make sense to me to catch a dog killer and turn him loose. I like my dogs too much to loose them on a hog that we have already taken down once. Hog hunters would barr way less hogs if their lives depended on the crops that they raised!!!!!

I have seen farmers quit farming at certain locations because the hogs eat at least half the crops. The fields I am talking about were located next to forrest land that didn't allow any kind of hunting.

Where we hunt if the rancher or farmer found out that we turned the hogs loose we would be kicked out. We do not bar a hog we take them out.

Bar hogs have low testosterone, so that makes them fat and slower and less aggressive. Also their teeth grow longer because they are not having to fight for the sows with other boars. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. 

Put the pups on a chain for a day or 2, they will calm down and accept the chain.  After that put a leash on them and let them run around until they calm down. Kind of ignore them during this training. once they are ok with the leash  pick up the leash and kind of play with the pup so that it will follow you around. If the pup wants to pull away a little follow the pup and try to get its attention off the leash. If it is fighting the leash let it run around with the leash until it is ok with it. This has always worked for me. Dragging the pup around will not help. It will take a long time to break the pup if it is forced to lead. You can also give the pup a small treat to get his attention off the lease and keep a treat handy so the pup can focus on the treat and not the leash.

make sure the dog is baying hogs (dog must know that it is ok to hunt hogs) before using the e-collar. You don't want him to associate all baying as bad or it will set him back.

First I would try the command to get out using a deep voice cause dogs submit to that (has been my observation). If he gets out and comes to you pet him real quick and move on to hog hunting....

I would do this about 3 different days. After that it would be e-collar time.

Make sure the catch dog never catches a cow because it is hard to break a catch dog once he catches one, at least I couldn't ever trust mine after that episode. Before he could walk right through cattle but once a friend of mine bought a pack of hogdogs and they were on a cow and this ruined my pit. E-collar didn't work on him.

good looking cat with a good head and ears. The big question is... does he stick to the track until the hog is bayed up?  A good me to dog that helps stop a hog is 2-300 dollars. If he strikes alone and follows track and bays 500 to 700 dollars.

IMO, it is not linebreeding when you outcross every 2 or 3 genarations after the strain has been developed. The dog or gyp used to freshen up the line should look and hunt similarly to the strain and be a relative on one side of your line. The pups should be bred back into the strain and the dog or gyp used to freshen the line taken out of the program. Then every 3 generations or when you feel the need to freshen the line, repeat the last step...

In reality, when you do it this way it is still linebreeding....

The more generations you do this the more often you will feel the need to freshen the strain, but always with a small percentage of an outcrossed dog.

This is only half of it, the other half is to test the pups, dogs, and cull hard.  Eventually, the worst dogs in the yard should be able to do it alone but does not necessarily qualify them as breeders.

After my last post I realized that I should take this to the point where the breeding is in an ongoing mode or at least to keep it going until you decide to stop...

Once we get to the point that the dogs are all related then stagger the age of the males and females so that they are not getting old at the same time.

It is time to freshen the strain when there are too many brothers/sisters from the same parents.

Once we are somewhat satisfied with the strain and there is no need to breed you can choose not to breed at all for as long as the pack is young enough and healthy, or, you can breed a few litters every now and then to place in good hunting homes with the understanding that if the pup turns out above average that you can get a pup or two from a cross of my choosing.

Also by breeding a litter every now and then when you are looking at the pups before placing we have the opurtunity to select a pup that really suits us and also you get to verify what the dogs are producing.

At the beginning I bred a brother to sister and then bred the females on their first heat. I did this the first two generations so that I could turn over the bloodline as quickly as possible. The idea was to somewhat purify the gene pool within a few years. Right or wrong this is how I did it because I wanted to increase my percentage chance of getting high quality dogs right away. I was dealing with early starting dogs so I felt comfortable doing this.

I can't say that this is the right way or the only way to breed better dogs but this is how I did it and it worked for me.

My suggestion is that if someone wants to try something like this to form a co-op or team of men and women with the same goals so that the labor and expenses can be kept down. Not only that but you can keep more dogs which will give you more to choose from.

IMO, it is not linebreeding when you outcross every 2 or 3 genarations after the strain has been developed. The dog or gyp used to freshen up the line should look and hunt similarly to the strain and be a relative on one side of your line. The pups should be bred back into the strain and the dog or gyp used to freshen the line taken out of the program. Then every 3 generations or when you feel the need to freshen the line, repeat the last step...

In reality, when you do it this way it is still linebreeding....

The more generations you do this the more often you will feel the need to freshen the strain, but always with a small percentage of an outcrossed dog.

This is only half of it, the other half is to test the pups, dogs, and cull hard.  Eventually, the worst dogs in the yard should be able to do it alone but does not necessarily qualify them as breeders.

This is just some of my personal thoughts,

I like an early starter, first look at a pig at 4 months, trained untill a year old, and by then they better be freaking out to get to a pig. If not, cull.

With the broad range of genetics you have, breed them real tight at first, selecting for conformation and performance, keeping the whole litter untill they are a year old (that's the only way you know what you've got, look for consistency through the litter in all things) keep the best Male and female from each pairing at 18 months, cull the rest.

I always want to breed back up the line when I can, sire to daughter or grand sire to grand daughter. I like that better than a litter mate pairing.

Once you get pretty close to what you want, out cross every third cross, that way you can breed real tight twice then out cross, and repeat. If your blood is good and you have selected you could be close to what you want in 6-7 generations.

Don't settle for less than what you feel is perfect. I am line breeding two different lines right now and its a lot of work and a lot of dog food, but well worth the time.

here is  good read http://www.westwindgsps.com/linebreeding.htm

For me personally line breeding is done to set the traits you want so that your outcrosses will be very consistent and have the hybrid vigor we all want. So to me line breeding is not an end unto its self, but a way to produce out cross dogs as the final goal.

Thanks for posting the link for the linebreeding article on the GSP. It was very informative. It refreshed my memory because it has been a long time since I have done any reading on breeding better dogs.

Unless I misunderstood the article, it is totally against outcrossing because of what you lose in the process. Linebreeding is the way to go as long as we select properly. To me it is about picking the right pups and never comprimising like I stated in one of my previous posts.

IMO breeding for color would be easy because it is visual and anyone could probably do it.... But, when we breed for hunting ability, brains and conformation it becomes a different ball game. By the time we analyze and write down all the definitions  for hunting ability so that we can breed toward those goals, the list would be getting long... Then you factor in the other traits and it becomes a  bigger challenge.

Like I stated before, it is my opinion that outcrossing would have to be done with a dog that is somewhat related and looks and acts similar to your line. I would venture to say that it needs to carry at least 50% relations to your strain and then breed the best offspring back into the line and not breed the distant relative any more to your dogs (a one time deal).

DUUUUUDE,

You said it all right there.....

This is just some of my personal thoughts,

I like an early starter, first look at a pig at 4 months, trained untill a year old, and by then they better be freaking out to get to a pig. If not, cull.

With the broad range of genetics you have, breed them real tight at first, selecting for conformation and performance, keeping the whole litter untill they are a year old (that's the only way you know what you've got, look for consistency through the litter in all things) keep the best Male and female from each pairing at 18 months, cull the rest.

I always want to breed back up the line when I can, sire to daughter or grand sire to grand daughter. I like that better than a litter mate pairing.

Once you get pretty close to what you want, out cross every third cross, that way you can breed real tight twice then out cross, and repeat. If your blood is good and you have selected you could be close to what you want in 6-7 generations.

Don't settle for less than what you feel is perfect. I am line breeding two different lines right now and its a lot of work and a lot of dog food, but well worth the time.

here is  good read http://www.westwindgsps.com/linebreeding.htm

For me personally line breeding is done to set the traits you want so that your outcrosses will be very consistent and have the hybrid vigor we all want. So to me line breeding is not an end unto its self, but a way to produce out cross dogs as the final goal.

Thanks for posting the link for the linebreeding article on the GSP. It was very informative. It refreshed my memory because it has been a long time since I have done any reading on breeding better dogs.

Unless I misunderstood the article, it is totally against outcrossing because of what you lose in the process. Linebreeding is the way to go as long as we select properly. To me it is about picking the right pups and never comprimising like I stated in one of my previous posts.

IMO breeding for color would be easy because it is visual and anyone could probably do it.... But, when we breed for hunting ability, brains and conformation it becomes a different ball game. By the time we analyze and write down all the definitions  for hunting ability so that we can breed toward those goals, the list would be getting long... Then you factor in the other traits and it becomes a  bigger challenge.

Like I stated before, it is my opinion that outcrossing would have to be done with a dog that is somewhat related and looks and acts similar to your line. I would venture to say that it needs to carry at least 50% relations to your strain and then breed the best offspring back into the line and not breed the distant relative any more to your dogs (a one time deal).

Now here's what i'm not sure on with the Tweety grandpups pictured above. Their sire would be an outcross into the line... nothing to do with the two foundation males. I think i'll wait and see how the Tweety/Buck litter turns out, then breed Tweety back to a son from her and Winchester next year. That should should lock the blood in from the three foundation dogs, giving us plenty of pups to work with.

If those don't work out, maybe cross one the grandpups in later on down the road... if they make the grade?

This is all just thoughts running through my mind... it may turn into a big cluster and a bunch of culls.

I think it's ok to start out with a certain percentage (higher) of culls as long as you select the best pups... In my experience I sometimes didn't always pick the best ones but did pretty good about picking a good one. Just give away or sell the pups you don't keep that you believe could possibly turn out as good hunting dogs that are worthy of breeding to hunters that will hunt them and stay in contact with you. Just have the understanding that you want to breed the gyp/stud of your choice to this dog that turned out so that you can get a few pups. This way you raise the probability of aquiring the best for breeding.  This is my 2 cents worth....

I believe that your idea's are good as to what you are trying to accomplish.

Those two pups pictured and Clay's Riley dog are head and shoulders better dogs than the others out of that litter.  Both at less than 9 months old were on their way to making a strike dog.  I would like to hear someone who has done a LOT of line breeding tell me how they cull.  To me it is tempting to just keep the ones that by a year old are really making it happen and get rid of the others but maybe that is too hasty.  I know there are a lot of stories of late bloomers becoming outstanding dogs but my experiences have taught me that most jam dogs I have seen the last few years are all early starting, fast maturing dogs and personally I value that alot!  I don't want to wait 14-18 months for a dog to start contributing.  If by 12 months they are not contributing and showing me they have the drive and want to then they are a cull and are not going to be used in a breeding program for dang sure.  Not trying to steer the thread off corse just kinda asking a general question.

I line bred and inbred and culled hard for 15 years on a line of mtn curs. I started with good dogs and toward the end most any puppy would make a decent hog dog but many were early starting and very good dogs.


I  was never in it for the money so I kept about 4 pups from a litter and then culled down to 1 or 2.  I tested the pups at 8 weeks and throughout puppyhood, this included baying. willingness to swim and I took them out to the woods at 4 months to see which ones rolled out. I made sure that they were not rolling out because they were following the lead of another puppy etc... etc... I made sure that they were early starters. At 10 months I wanted them to strike and run with the big dogs. If they came back after 15 minutes it was a major concern for me. My reasons for all of this was that if I have to wait until the pup is 1.5 years of age then the offspring will be the same or the line will be regressing. I just couldn't keep a pup for that long to decide if it was a cull or not. Same thing if you have to use a training collar excessively. You will produce pups that need the same form of training. When you get to the point that you need new blood then: 1. find a dog that is somewhat related and has the same qualities as your dogs and possibly bring something to the table to enhance the strain, or 2, breed your best gyp to a stud that is somewhat related and keep as many pups from that cross and then select the best possible pup to breed into your strain so that you bring in a small amount of new blood but does not really change your strain. The idea is to give the strain a boost, not to lose what you have strived for. This is how I did it and it worked for me. You just have to call it like it is and to not have kennel blindness. It takes a lot of money to do this. I'm retired now so will not do this again.

IMO, I think that the best thing to do is to get 4 or 5 friends with the same goals and each keep at least several dogs and develop a breeding program that includes a written hunting standard that describes how the dog/gyp should hunt and how it is built to include the size and weight. I would like to be a part of something like this....I am partial to the MTN CUR though...

Raider54 is right, get on line and look up pitbull breeders, selling their working papered pits, you cant hardly get one less than $500 minimum...1k avg. the oly reason you can get pits cheap is b/c of the pound and forums like this one...backyard breeders creating lots of pits driving the price down!! they are as pricey as dogos online.

How many hog hunters do you know that buy these high dollar pits from breeders? All the ones I know use pits from proven woods dog stock... back yard breeders. Thats where my money would go if I had to buy one... proven hog dogs, not "professional" breeders.

The problem with back yard dogo breeders is that most want to charge a premium just like the registered breeders .... evidently on dogo crosses also.

I agree...

I see them on a regular basis for $150 dollars and sometimes less. Have seen them sell for $1000 but a good average price is $250. I only keep one at a time because strike dogs have always been my priority and I have limited room for dogs. I hunted without a catch dog for about ten years but sometimes someone would bring one or two.

Usually caught all hogs with my curs, either they were caught when I got there or caught when I gave the command. After several wrecks I started carrying a pistol and would not let the dogs catch a bad boar.

To me, it is a lot easier picking a pit puppy for catching than picking a pup for striking/baying hogs...



You are obviously a PittBull fan, that being said, if you go to a top notch reputable breeder, one that has super high quality Pitbulls, what will an 8 week old registered pup cost on average?
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Duece, all working dogs should get a fine tooth comb.  A cull is a cull no matter the breed.  I

A real dog man uses a fine toothed comb with a magnifying glass and then double and triple checks.

The APBT is what it is today because of the hard core dog men of the past.
This is in spite of all the backyard breeders that have not culled for working ability.
I Know this is about the DOGO but a few shots were fired in the PIT direction.

It was said that some pits don't have the wind. It could be that the dog came out of the pound or someones backyard that don't know anything about heartworms, or the dog is overweight and never gets any type of excercise.
The pit backed off of a bad boar.... well maybe the pound dog isn't a purebred or is of the larger type and is still a pup.

The pit is dog aggressive... Yup, they are game dogs but a firm hand and proper socialization usually works... especially if it is brought up from a pup... And if it is people aggressive it is a cull. I treat all pits like a loaded gun because I know what they are capable of... The reason being is probably due to irresponsible breeders. In spite of all this I'll put my money on the APBT....

earlier I said I owned an amr 22 mag and then I realized I made a mistake. It is an AMT AUTOMAG 2 22 rimfire magnum made in Irwindale,CA.

When I tested the penetration If I recall correctly the ballistic tip came in second compared to the hollow point.

My suggestion to you is to buy a box of each and then stack a few 2x4 boards together and see which one does the best

x3

That one qualifies as a wall hanger....

I used an amr semi auto 22 mag pistol when I didn't use a catch dog. I tried hollow points and they bounced right off the skull. Did some research and started using the CCI 22 wmr TMJ and it punches a hole right thru the skull and they drop in their tracks. It is the 40 grain, TMJ just means that it is a full metal jacket. The 22 LR does about the same. We used these calibers to keep the bullet from going all the way through and possibly hitting a dog.

BA-IV, that was a good story.... I bet you didn't think it was funny then.

Years back I caught a piglet must of been a couple of days old or so and like a dummy I thought I would put my finger in his mouth so he could suckle and he bit down like a bulldog and started thrashing my finger like an airedale that was trying to kill a hog.... I felt real stupid but never did that again... My hog hunting buddy thought it was real funny...

ETHHUNTER,
that is exactly why I believe that a dog that stands back and bays is the best dog but should do all it can to stop the hog when it breaks.... The majority of places that we hunt are just like you described. At least we can't say that the dog made the hog break bay,or, the dog is too loose of a bay dog and couldn't/wouldn't stop the hog.