When is what you see what you get?

I agree, to an extent. 2years and you will have a very good idea of what you have, but my rules for a pup, well there aren't any. I guess if I had to set a cutoff for a pup it would be 8months, but even then, it's not much of a guarantee other then they'll work. Also, Id say the line of dogs has a lot to do with it. Foundation dogs for example, in my experience tend to develop a little slower but when they get going they are something to watch...not all but I hope you see what I'm saying. I still wouldn't give them more then two years to earn their keep.