Dogo Breeding and culling

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Question for Joe, do you select for tracking ability/ winding ability in your Dogos. Do you ever run just Dogos on the ground with no cur dogs?

La Historia, I believe that you know a lot about conformation and bloodlines and you do have some nice dogs, but you are a very novice hunter and you have little experience in hunting your dogs. There are many dogs of many breeds that "try and kill", that's the easy part. Evaluation your dogs tracking ability, winding ability, range takes years. Green dogs often look as though they are trying to kill the boar. I  look for a good deal more than that in a dogs holding ability. I actually don't want a dog that is shaking and thrashing the hog as this expends a lot of energy that the dog needs to hold the hog for extended periods. I also want a dog that hits hard but is smart enough to get a good grip without getting cut to pieces. A clean holding style is also a big plus, a dog that holds clean and can keep from getting cut can spend more time hunting and less time in R&R healing up from every hunt.

[La Historia Dogo]

Paul,

There are things I agree and disagree about with what you wrote. Mostly agree though. In comparison to many hog hunters I am a novice. In comparison to breeders who care about the funtionality AND the conformation of the dogo, I would bet I have spend hundreds more hours behind my dogos hunting in the traditional style that the dogo was intended for. I would never come to this or any other hunting site, trying to educate hunters on hunting. But if people are asking questions about how a Dogo breeder makes their selections and pairings, etc, I will certainly offer my opinions. I think I'm the only "dogo breeder" that tried to answer any of Joe's questions. Its a shame that some immature people feel the need to scour the net for my advertisements of pups, just to talk trash. As you can see by my post count over the time I have spent as a member of this forum, I spend much more time reading and learning, than typing and educating.

So Joe, can you answer the questions you asked, so that we can also learn from you, as I feel we can ALL learn from each other.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

La Historia, not picking on you in any way. I just think that when you have several hundred hogs under your belt that you will get very picky about some things or ways your dogs work. Those might be things that at this time you are not really even noticing or caring about right now.

[Reuben]

To La Historia, Sometime earlier you mentioned (could of been on a different thread) that the Dogo was bred to kill and not catch, this was very clear to me unless I misunderstood you. This is great if the Dogo is hunting coon or bobcat etc... etc... But when it comes to hog hunting a dog that is trying to kill a hog will wear itself out and over heat before this happens if the hog has any good size to it. Some curs and a lot of airedales do this. These dogs are fierce fighters but the best type of dogs are the ones who catch solid on the front end and hold. Must have a strong jaw like the Dogo and other bulldog breeds that can hang on for a while until the hunter gets there to secure the hog. This is something to rethink/reconsider and possibly breed for this desirable trait.

[Reuben]

LA HISTORIA,

I believe that you have the desire to breed the correct Dogo for conformation and that you are also trying to breed a good type of hunting dogo. Sharing your knowledge as well as trying to learn all you can is great for the breed. I really like the looks of your dogo. I  would like to see more pics posted of your dogs...

Also, if your dogos are to be catch dogs you must run vest on them otherwise you will lose some of your dogs. You might want to get some of your best males collected in case this were to happen.

Also, most catch type dogs do not bark but are busy trying to catch or are caught so my biggest concern and question is how do you know when the dogs are caught let's say 3 or 4 hundred yards out? If this happens you need to know so that you can assist your dogs immediately... The longer the dogs are caught the higher the chance of getting a dog injured or killed.

How do you work around/thru these issues?

[La Historia Dogo]

Reuben,
Either I worded myself wrong, or you misunderstood. Either way no big deal.  I would never intend to imply that the dogo is only bred to kill its prey. However, if you cannot find your dogo caught, they SHOULD be able to kill the prey. Whether that prey be a wild boar or a puma. 3-5 dogos should be able to work like a pack of lions and kill their prey.

What may have lead you to believe that I want the dogo to kill the boar, is when I state that I am not content with a dogo who just hangs on forever. A dogo should be wanting to fight its prey. They are bred to fight with Jabali and Puma. They are a "catch dog" in some senses of the word, but like others have compared them to a gritty cur, that may be half of the equation.  Dogos are intended to be the complete big game hunting dog.

You are on the right track on trying to figure me out as far as my breedings, but where you steer in the wrong direction is that I am not for a conformation OR a hunting dogo without its other half.  I am ONLY for the Complete Dogo. A dogo that both looks the part, and does its  original job.  I have gotten to a point in my breeding program where I am not willing to sacrifce either aspect of the Dogo Argentino. There are already too many Show only breeders, and there are plenty of Hunt only breeders. I am neither and in some respects I am both. I show my dogos, but I don't waste a heck of alot of time on the opinions of judges who have seen a few dogos in the show ring. I hunt my dogos, but not to the point of hunting for 3+ hogs a night. When I go out, sometimes I come up empty just like anyone else. But on the nights when we catch one hog and all of the dogs are there and safe, I call it a night. I don't need to run them out of gas, bring them to deaths doorstep and then bring'em back.  I am only out there to let them be the true dogo that they are. I heard stories from south american hunts, that lasted days, where they were trailing one big nasty boar for 10+miles. I will never be on a hunt like that, so that may be the sacrifice my program will make. That they will only be worked on small 1000+ acres properties that I get permission for.

I very rarely run one dog. The only times I have been out with one dogo is when I have gone hunting with others and brought a dog of mine along.  Typically 2-4 dogos at a time. As I have said before(maybe in a different post) My dogos typically catch on the face/snout/head of the boar. And the time may come, but I have yet to see a boar that could do much with 300lbs of dogo latched to its head.

As for finding a silent dogo caught 100+ yards away.  Will be getting a Garmin very soon. As of yet, I have been lucky enough for them to be so painfully intense that the boars are ALWAYS screaming. I know there will come a time where this will not be the case, but as I said, as of right now, it has worked out. 

Haven't been running vests, due to the heat just collars.  But I am looking into one of these chest plates, just can't find the ones I had seen before. When I recently looked up the plates, the looked almost the same as a shorty vest and are a bit more costly.

Paul,

You are probably right, that when I have been on hundreds of hogs, there will be things I want to have different about my dogs.  But as of right now, as I have said on Dogo Boards...I am only interested in hunting the Dogo in the tradtional style that they were bred for since I don't hunt just for fun(well, I have fun running dogs) I hunt for the dogs to have fun. So from what I can see, I am not sacrificing much.  If you see something related to the tradition creole hunting style, that I am missing, I am always willing to listen and learn.  I didn't plan on someone elses topics ending up paying more attention to the way I hunt my dogos, Sorry Joe.

[Reuben]

Over 90% of boars hogs that I have caught since the mid 1980's which weighed in excess of 175#s are silent when caught no matter how many dogs are hanging off of him.

A good responsible breeder breeds for the complete dog as you are trying to do. You misunderstood me, I never said that you were breeding the incomplete dogo.

[Circle C]

So Joe, can you answer the questions you asked, so that we can also learn from you, as I feel we can ALL learn from each other.

I am looking forward to hearing Joe's response as well.

[USHOG]

Question for Joe, do you select for tracking ability/ winding ability in your Dogos. Do you ever run just Dogos on the ground with no cur dogs?

I have watched my dogos track on blood trail that I have set but I have not ever seen them do it on a hunt.

Last night is a good example I have a female dogo that everytime she puts her nose in the air we catch a hog. I think she has the best nose of any of my dogs. I was confident enough to tell several people that there are hogs in the area. We where driving around a milo feild and at the north west end of the feild when she was winding pretty good. We made it around to the south west side and all hell broke loose had several bays going on at the same time plus the dogos where chasing one at the same time. we ended up catching a nice little boar. My dogos seem to wind more than track but they can follow a small peice of deer liver for as long as you want to drag it.


Yes I have run the dogos by themselves many times but mostly when running rice fields we see the hogs out in the middle of the field and we cut 6 to 10 of them loose. It works pretty good and catches many hogs this way.

Most of the time when I am guiding I put the dogos on lead so that my clients can watch the bay dogs work before we send in the dogos.

[USHOG]

Dont worry about changing the topic a little I enjoy reading everything about what other people think and are trying to do with the dogo.

The Garmis is a wonderful tool to keep track of the dogos since there normally is not much noise from them

[duece24]

I will cosign on what Joe has stated vivek seen this happen may times when we have been hunting together. I will also say that my half dogo winds WAY more than she will track on the ground. My dogo while walkin will kick her head up and just as she does that I will look down on my garmin and see that my two bay dogs have just caught ghost and are 400yds out running a hog. If I felt that I would be able to call in my dogo I would run her loose as well. We have just got to the point where she fully trusts me so maybe in a couple of more months I will be able to run her loose.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Joe, I have seen the same thing. I rig hunt a lot where there is no chance of the dogs seeing the hogs and my Dogo is one of my best rig dogs. She has a fabulous nose, but more of a winding nose and not a nose on the ground track dog. I have seen mine wind a small sounder from 600 yrds off the truck and line the sent out ahead of my Plott cross dogs. And my plott cross dogs are outstanding.

I love the Dogo and will always have some on my yard. I have one great one that is the total package(Adora De La Dogos) and one that is a dink and only good as a lead in.