Cur dogs

[Wmwendler]

I am curious to see different peoples views on Cur dogs.  So first let me define what I am talking about when I say Cur dog.  I will explain this in terms of breeds included.  They are as follows: Black mouth Cur, Catahoula, Leopard Cur, Lacy Game dog (Blue Lacy), Parker Cur, East Texas Brindle Cur.  There could be a few more, but those of you who realize that get the picture.  So a Cur dog (for the sake of my questions) is any dog that is one of the breeds listed or a cross between any of those breeds.  BUT NOT CROSSED WITH ANYTHING OTHER THAN THOSE BREEDS.

Here are my questions.

1.  Which of the following choices best describes a Cur dog?  You can only
     choose one!  When stating your choice for this question simply type it out
     like this.......  f.  lap dog

     a. hog dog
     b. cow dog
     c. stock dog
     d. hunting dog
     e. blood trail dog
     f.  lap dog
 
2.  What traits are found in the Cur breeds that cannot be found in other
     breeds that are used for the same purposes?

3.  What traits are NOT found in the Cur breeds that are found in other breeds
     that are used for the same purposes?

For the following questions answer yes or no

4.  Do you beleive native americans had a major contribution to the
    development of the cur breeds?

5.  In question 4, if you answered (YES).  Did you choose that answer because
    thats you read that it was true on the internet?

6.  Do you beleive that all of the Cur breeds listed above have common
    ansestors?  Or in other words, do they originally come from the same stock
    of dogs?

I will give my answers to the question after a few days.  There are no wrong answers so dont be shy.

Waylon

[Scott]

1. c - stock dog (that obviously multi-tasks very well)

2. they are headers, not heelers (working stock), otherwise...don't know, never owned any of the other breeds

3. see above

4. "major" .....no

5. N/A

6. No


On a side note, what about Mountain Curs? According to Larry Parker his dogs are mostly Catahoula crossed with Mountain Cur and maybe some hound in there somewhere.

[Sean]

geez, feel like i was just handed an algebra quiz waylon! lol. j/k. gonna take a few days to mull this over in the deer stand...

[Wmwendler]

Scott.....I originally was gonna place mountain Cur in the list. But decided not to in order to simplyfy things.  Mountain Curs are on one end of the Cur spectrum.  And I don't know if they would work cattle like all the other cur breeds do.  I've haven't seen too many of them and never seen one used on cattle.  It would be entresting to try a mountain Cur on cattle and see if they take to working the head any, like all other Curs do.  What I know about them is
just what i've read about them.  They seem to be a little more like plotts to me... some have semi open mouths on them. 

I read a post from Larry Parkers sight where he was talking about the specific dogs that were involved in starting his line.  It was mountain curs, and Catahoulas from cow dog stock.  People say all the time that Parker dogs have to have some plott(hound) in them but I think they are mistaking that from few "houndy" traits that mountain curs have in them.  Then again I have also read some accounts by people who say that back when plott hounds were originally getting recognized as a breed some breeders wanted them to be called plott curs an some wanted them to be called plott hounds.  The hound camp won out and the plott cur camp got pissed and branched off.  Then the Cur camp formed thier own breed registry and how the Original Mountain Cur came about.  So could be that mountain curs and plotts come from the same original stock of dogs that some beleived were hounds and some beleived were curs.  But thats a whole other can of worms.  Thanks for answering.

Sean....dont stay gone deer hunting too long.

Waylon

[Scott]

Waylon, I figured you left the Mountain Cur out because, I too, have never heard of them being used as stock dogs.

The Parker Cur contributors I got from Larry. He said he thought that there might have been a little hound blood in one of his foundation dogs. Then again, my memory aint what it used to be LOL

[Mike]

I'll have to think about it.

[pig snatcher]

I dont want to drag this off topic, but over here in SC we use a good bit of mtn. currs. They are more comman here than a catahoula or blackmouth.  My experiance w/ catahoulas and black mouths is a bit limmited at best but the mtn. curr in my personal experiance seems to have a bit more nose and "go" to them than the other two breeds. They also dont seem to be near as catchy as the cats. They are smart little dogs and quick on their feet. Some are semi open but I dont see much hound in them at all. I have never known anyone to use them on cattle but then again cow dogs arent that big over here.  I may be wrong but I would guess they would be more of a rear end dog on cattle. Just guessing from the way they catch hogs, they tend to pull em down from the rear. Most are used for hogs or squirrel.

Now dont anybody take offense, not saying that they are better or worse than cats and such as my experiance w/ them is verry limmited and most I have hunted with were from the same stock. Probably opposite from yall.

[Mike]

1. hunting dog

2.?

3.?

4.yes

5.I know the old Indian dogs were used in the development of catahoulas.

6.no

I'm not familiar with the history on any other cur breeds. I remember way back when I was a kid, my kin folks in Louisiana used catahoulas for years... a few generations that I know of. But their dogs could be used for anything. Working hogs, hunting squirrels, hunting coons, or blood trailing deer. They just called them "cur dogs".

When I first started hog hunting, my uncle couldn't believe the price we were paying for "cur dogs"! LOL!

[pig snatcher]

What is an east Texas brindle curr? Thats a new one on me.

[Sean]

1) stock dogs, at least it seems to me that i have heard of those breeds being used for many different tasks
2) quieter on track than most "houndier" breeds, less range also. not as catchy as bulldog breeds, not really sure what you're asking for on this question....may be over my head
3) see above, and reverse it.lol
4) yes, at least in more recent history
5) no
6) depends on the timeline you're talking about. you go back far enough and all breeds are related...

[BoarBuster67]

Gritty and Loyal and as said very good at multitasking. Now that all that is said is the camera man going tonight or is he still chasing bambi, because daddy is going to kill the big buck!!

[Sean]

lol. no, won't be along for tonight harry. ya'll catch a good one though. watch out for poachers and gators

[BoarBuster67]

Im working but did find a lot of hog sign this morning in national forest

[Sean]

cool. can't wait till that season opens again

[Wmwendler]

Pig snatcher.....An east Texas Brindle Cur is not much more than the name describes.  I threw that in there to cover those dogs you see come out of East Texas that have been bred for generations but the people who use them dont really call them catahoulas or BMC's just cur dogs.

1.  Stock dog.......cattle are livestock, Domestic and Feral pigs are live stock both legally and technically speaking.  Their instinct for protecting the home goes back to protecting livestock.  Asside from blood trailing work on deer, and treeing small game every job a cur dog is used for is for livestock.  You could say hunting dog but when you get down to it? what are they hunting?  They hunt livestock.

2.  Cur dogs work(hunt) for you.  Its why they are so good at working cattle because the can be directed with voice commands.  Its also why they are so versatile because they want to do what you want them to do.  I have not seen another breed that will do this.  A cur dog will naturally adapt to the way you hunt hogs or work cattle with out any actuall training.  Other dogs you have to adapt to the way they hunt or work, and do some intensive training to get them to do something that fits your style if they dont allready do it.  Cur dogs are effecient hunters of sign.  Hunting ranges, and degree of nose in Curs can vary.  But as a general rule.  Cur dogs dont wast time on old sign, but when good sign is found they can and will take it a long way (if need be) to find the hogs or cattle.

3.  With hounds you can pick a good track drop dogs and let them work it out.  This would not work with most curs unless its a fresh track.  A few perhaps but not most.  This is good in areas where hogs are few and far between.  But in most areas where hogs are found they are in fairly high populations.

4.  No.  The Catahoula has an Native American name but so do some city streets that no indian has ever set foot on.  I dont beleive every thing I read expecially stuff on the internet.

5.  N

[Clay]

If you look at old indain pics from the louisiana area you will see dogs that look like a catahoula. there is a book about them that has some of those pictures in there cant remember the name now. They may not be cats but i believe they have something to do with them. Also that is what my great great grandpa told me when i was young. He had catahoulas out of louisiana. This was long before any computers were around. He always said the ones with the yellow eyes were the best. Goes back to the wolf. But this is just what he told me so it may be all hogwash....Who realy knows.

[Wmwendler]

Clay........I dont doubt that after European settlement, the Native Americans had catahoulas (or had the early cur dogs that went on to become Catahoulas).  I know that many tribes, expescially the Cherokee, adapted almost 100% the the European way of life of, living in houses, farming and keeping live stock as a source of income(not just subsistance).  So it would'nt be hard to presume that they also adapted to the European way of using stock dogs and hunting dogs like Cur dogs.  After all I would think that Native Americans are a race of people that could really appreciate and see the bennifit of such dogs.  And thus, use them after they were introduced to them by Europeans. However, I just dont beleive that Native Americans had any stock of dogs available to them that could possibly have been used to help create the Catahoula breed.  They had the Texas Red Wolf.  They could have domesticated that but, what trait would the Red wolf have that it could give to the creation of the Catahoula breed?  Definately not herding instincts, and perhaps hunting but the way a wolf hunts and the way a Catahoula or other Cur dog hunts is two totally different things.  Besides the internet claims of the Red wolf being a contributer to the Catahoula breed, via Native Americans, says that the red wolf is where the Catahoula gets the blue eyes from.  But Red Wolves definately dont have blue eyes.  Thats just my opinion, based on the fact that there is a lack of evidence to prove such a claim.

Waylon

[Clay]

from what ive red its where they get the bright yellow eyes only seen a few catahoulas with these eyes and its more wicked looking then the blue ones...been looking for one but havent found one yet..but im searching

[Clay]

and yes they were introduced by Desoto from what ive read they started from a cross of his war dogs and the red wolf then from there they just bred for hunting/herding  ability i guess.