line breeding and imbreeding...

[HDMdogs]

im aware of the differences and know both sides of the breeding effects
just a question i have.. i have a  high driven, louder mouthed, silent on track RBMC gyp she will range out a mile or so and then check back in frequently and will bay hard
and i have a gritty smart male with a great nose but he doesnt range out all that far 200-400 yrds hes more of a help dog and will honor a bay time and time again!
i breed these two in mind that they would throw some goodlooking good pups(they turned out nice)

now i was wondering how to line breed these pups to strengthen the bloodline
if im thinking correctly you can breed the father back to a daughter,but not the mother back to a son or am i backwards?

feel free to comment and give ur opinions thanks in advance -dylan

[3-Bdogs]

I always go son to mother, then that offspring to the original litter but for best results u have to cull hard for any flaws u don't like cause your gonna double both good and bad traits

[t.wilbanks]

If the sire was just a help dog, i dont think i would breed back to him.. JMO

What traits were you wanting to get from him, besides good looking pups??

[TShelly]

If the sire was just a help dog, i dont think i would breed back to him.. JMO

What traits were you wanting to get from him, besides good looking pups??

I agree. If your going to the trouble of trying to start your own line by breeding in the future, I'd pick from the best male sire possible

[halfbreed]

in line breeding you breed back to either side . if you like the father better breed  daddy to daughter if you like the dame better breed mother to son . it just depends on wich side of the family you are trying to reproduce traits from .

[Reuben]

in line breeding you breed back to either side . if you like the father better breed  daddy to daughter if you like the dame better breed mother to son . it just depends on wich side of the family you are trying to reproduce traits from .

x2...exactly my thoughts...The question is what traits do you want???If I want the mothers traits and capture some from the sire then I would breed a male pup back to the dam. A male pup that has the qualities you like.

Also If the dam is what you really like then get one of those pups and breed to an aunt or an uncle which would be the dams brother or sister...

you will get lots of variation at first so make sure to pick the pups as best as you can...

it might have been better to have bred the dam to a relative of hers that had the traits you liked and it probably would have gotten you there faster...

[coyote hunter]

I'm about to do this too. All info will be appreciated and used. I've never line bred but both my yellas have great qualities. What about two litters from the same parents and crossing them over. I'm interested in learning all I can on this subject. Thank u also

[pigrig]

same thing until they grow 5 legs then its in breed

[HDMdogs]

too clear it up i bred these two in hopes for the mothers range and brains and the fathers grit and bark, both have a damn good nose and can stay with a hot track as well as the gyp can go with a semi cold track so the nose they will have and the range is more the less that i was looking far i dont want mile long dogs i wanted medium range dogs
i was looking for variety colored dogs with mask which i got as well.

thanks for the post and keep the opinions coming im trying to get something started here

[3-Bdogs]

If your trying to line breed the off spring of those 2 then I would do a sibling breeding cause typical linebreeding is designed to capture the traits of a perticular dog but if these pups just were born then u got a ways to go cause u might not like how they turn out its a long process that takes yrs to get a consistent litter of dogs you want but good luck to you

[HDMdogs]

thanks everyone for commenting and helping, im gonna spit in the wind on this one and see where it lands..
and reuben i bred these two because my yella dog gets cut up pretty nice sometimes and if he was to die i wanted a male that resembled him and hopefully had half his personality, the sire is 100% aiming to please all the time and a great friend to me saved my butt a couple times in the woods so to have a pup off of him is something i was desiring. 

[Noah]

I see it as a tool to lock in superior traits, not improve them necessarily... when you see something you want to preserve, "doubling up" on the genetics will increase your odds of seeing it again on down the line...  "preserving" being the key word, until an improving specimen is found... which can take a while...

I have not yet tried it myself, but I will...  not something that you would see results from quickly...

If I were to point out a pet peeve I have with the idea... is that many people try and line breed based on bloodlines/papers... rather than the individual... trying to pull "pieces" of great animals out based on pedigree... yet continuing weak genetics in the process...

Ideally, breed superior to superior or not at all... especially if you're trying to "capture" something for future purposes.

[HDMdogs]

thanks alot noah, thats what i was looking for something to get adrenaline pumping ha! 

[Reuben]

to breed better dogs we have to have a high turn over rate or it will take 20 years to have a line that consistently produces what you want...and that is if we select the right pups each time for hunting... and then from those the breeders will make themselves known because day in and day out they will be the top performers...like they say...the cream rises to the top...The progression of the pups must be documented and all the traits evaluated...what we want is the pups with natural ability that need very little training but mainly exposure to the game...

I chose to turn over the females faster and the males slower because I had to keep experience and the females were more for breeding...as soon as they were proven they weren't hunted as much...this enabled me to move faster toward my goals of having a higher percentage of high quality pups.

to me the best part of hog hunting is breeding and raising pups that make hog dogs...

The idea is to improve on every generation...whether it be hunting ability or just a higher percentage of quality pups per litter.

and any time we outcross to our line it is no longer our line of dogs...when the pups are born we check for uniformity and hunt...if the majority of the litter doesn't meet our standard then we cull the whole litter and find another breeding prospect... We should use a dog from an established line of dogs that has the qualities we need in our line...

once we are satisfied with the litter of pups then we keep the one that is of the best quality and cross this one back into the line of dogs...I did this twice in 20 years and each time I only kept the dogs that carried 75% of my line...The 25% of the outcross was only to freshen up the blood...

Like I just mentioned, only one of the 50% outcrossed dog was used once for breeding...that dog and others can be kept for hunting but not for breeding into the line...because like I said earlier... in doing this it will no longer be our line of dogs...that would be ok only if the other line of dogs is better than ours....but when I outcrossed I only kept the dogs that were elgible for breeding because of limited space and expenses...

[mark]

Like Reuben said i double that , but the one thing that I haven't heard from anyone is the word cull. You have to be willing to cull very hard cause when you line breed you multiply all traits good and bad . So becareful what you breed make sure that the two dogs crossed don't posses the same bad traits and don't be lookin for a money train off of the pups , retain the litter and pick through it and cull hard on anything that doesn't meet the bar and friend set the bar high. All it takes is one off breeding and your yard could be ruined aswell as your good name .

[Hog Dog Mike]

Here is the way an old trainer explained it to me. If it works it is line breeding and if it don't it is inbreeding.

Bird doggers have very extensive records of number of winning pups produced, number of wins ect.. However a man named Thompson went one better in that he figured it on dogs with wins produced per times bred. In other words one male might have produced 10 good dogs and the other 5 good dogs. However, the one with 10 good pups might have produced 100 giving him a 10% production rate. The other might have produced 20 pups giving him a 25% production rate.

The horse boys have the right idea in that it is the female that is the key. Some dogs can produce offspring that carry their traits and some cain't. Look for the ones that do. Their was a great dog named The Kansas Wind that was a double digit championship winner. He never produced jack. Another dog named Jumper Jim never won a championship but produced (at that time) the dog that won more major championships than any other as well as many other champions.

Find the dogs that can procuce and go with those dogs.

[mike rogers]

you see a lot of guys line breeding. A lot of coon and bear hunters do it to. I made a cross from a male that was a brother to sister cross. He had his dad in his ped 5 times. Now the male wasn't the best coon dog in the world, but he had a lot of things in him I wanted. He had a loud bawl mouth, wider chest,  a short stockier build, and a out going personality. Yes I said personality. He was a people person dog that was super friendly and interacted with strangers and did really well with kids. He wanted to make you the owner happy.... If that makes any since.... Anyways I put him on my female. She had the nose, the grit, the speed and the right build, but she was a chop mouth dog and not as much as a people person dog. WHAT DID I GET? One of the best crosses I've ever made.  I have a pup now that combined the best of parents. Out of 7 pups only 3 are still alive. out of the 7 one died when it was laid on by the mother at around 4 days old. The other 6 grew up nicely. I sold one to a guy in Oklahoma who was make'n her a heck of a coon dog until he o.d. her on wormer and she died. 2 went to a hog hunter and were looking good when one was hit I think by a car and the other one just died the other day. I think from a virus, but I'm not sure and he's not sure eather. HOMETOWN HOGDOGGER has a blk/tan male that I think is make'n a heck of a hog dog. My buddy in Louisiana has the other female. She is make'n him a heck of a coon dog. Now that I got the female I want with all the traits I wanted, I'm looking for just the right male to boost it even more. Once I have that male and make that cross then I will line breed from there and see what we turn out. Her is the only  bad thing from doing alll this.... It can take a year before you really see how your pups turn out. If they dont turn, then it's back to the drawing board. Genetics is a bunch of this. Go with the best natural hunting dog you can. A whole list of grand champions in the background doesn't mean crap if what you have doesn't hunt. Not all pups out of a litter are equal. Not all are hammer down tree smart dogs. By crossing and breeding your own, you will get what you want.

Good luck with your breeding. Be ready to cull or give away pups. MAybe in a couple of litters you'll have what you want and when you get it... dont get rid of it..... LOL

[coyote hunter]

Thx for the info too. I surely appreciate it also. I just got the dogs I want to start doing this with. And mike when u get those pups down let me know. Ill sure put one on hogs.