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rdjustham
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« on: January 13, 2012, 02:44:16 pm » |
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Didnt want to hijack TShelly's thread so i figured id start a new one.
Im curious to understand where breeding becomes to tight. Based on his post his dog was out of two dogs and bread back to momma which made it 3/4 momma.
Now my question is this:
If i have two dogs to start with call it A and B
AxB= C and D
Now if i breed CxA= E and DxB=F
Can i breed E back to B or F back to A, or even breed ExF?
If this is confusing i can make up names.
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rdjustham
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 02:45:01 pm » |
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Oh and i know i "can" breed them but at what point does it become inbreeding or to tight?
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2012, 03:29:09 pm » |
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You lost me on the x's and o's ........Gonna have to put it down to who is who for me to help you.
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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rdjustham
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2012, 04:05:57 pm » |
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haha ok..
Ben x Molly= jasper and jenny
Ben and Jenny= pluto
Molly and Jasper= missy
Can i breed missy back to ben or pluto back to molly or is this to tight? Also could i breed missy and pluto?
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rspivey
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2012, 05:29:32 pm » |
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I would have to look at what Ben and Molly were before I made the cross back to them with either Pluto or Missy. If the original two dogs were complete out crosses MAYBE, I would not breed Pluto to Missy that would be to tight for my taste. THis is just my opinion; which that and a dollar might get you a cup of coffee.
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buddylee
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2012, 05:43:42 pm » |
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Lotta pit men will breed father to daughter and mother to son. After that I would go outside your line to a similar dog then go back to yours. Brother to sister is a last resort to save a bloodline. 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister is another good breeding. Hope this helps.
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Reuben
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2012, 05:52:13 pm » |
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if been and molly are line bred with a with 25 percent from an outcross I say do it...but only if the dogs we are talking about look and act right and hunt like you expect from a good hog dog...and another very important piece of the process is to make sure the pups kept for further linebreeding must be of the highest quality...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 06:21:40 pm » |
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This is me. I will breed mother x son , father x daughter, half bro x half sister., gandpaws to grandaughters, grandsons to grandmaws, uncles x neices , newphews x aunts bout the only breeding I consider worthless is bro x sister unless it is the last resort to save something but if it is you should have been smart enuff to know it before it happened. I dont care to much for father x daughter are son x mother but I will do it depending on the dogs themselves. All these kinds of breedings you see can have a little cross in them it dont take as big of a cross as people think to bring out the family line thats were a lot of mistakes are made in my opinion to much sugar can ruin the best pie but then again not enuff sugar it still takes like crap. So man it is a lot of dibbing and dabing and a eye for a dog and a feel for what will fork and what wont when a man goes to breeding dogs. My favorite breeding of all is half bro x half sister because you can keep the main blood at fifty percent and either bring in a 1/4 cross are you can bring a whole 1/2 of a cross this leaves you room to work with it and just see how much you need. Good luck
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trapperchick87
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 06:57:28 pm » |
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Like my collage prof liked to say "its only inbreeding when you start having defects'"...I've had defects pop up when breeding son to mom..jmo  |
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Life's tough...get a helmet
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rdjustham
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 07:29:23 pm » |
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Thanks texas i appreciate the info. I have a dog i really like, im told hes tight bred. I know the line he comes from but know nothing about it. I have an opportunity to pick up another dog similar to him (as far as i know, unrelated) and want to keep pups out of him, so i would be focusing on his blood. However i know next to nothin about line breeding. To me father to daughter would pretty much focus on him, and not somuch the momma dog, but then where does that leave me... Im kinda limited on the number of dogs i can keep for a couple reasons. A-money, B-time, C-living in a neighborhood  but the gist of what im getting is you need four good bred, somewhat unrelated (or at least cousins?) to start with to get a line goin, before having to outcross some. Right? |
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Scott
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 07:36:44 pm » |
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You can go as tight as you want to go until you see a degradation in what's being produced. That'll be your indicator to go into another family of dogs. Linebreeding/inbreeding does a couple of things...1. it locks in traits and 2. It brings the crap to the forefront so it can be culled from the family you are working with.
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Reuben
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 07:42:24 pm » |
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You can go as tight as you want to go until you see a degradation in what's being produced. That'll be your indicator to go into another family of dogs. Linebreeding/inbreeding does a couple of things...1. it locks in traits and 2. It brings the crap to the forefront so it can be culled from the family you are working with.
x2...if you like the male side then breed daughter to sire... then breed female pup from that litter and breed her to an uncle who is her mothers brother. get female pup from that litter and breed to grandsire...more than likely I would do it that way, if I were in your shoes... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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rdjustham
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 07:51:51 pm » |
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You can go as tight as you want to go until you see a degradation in what's being produced. That'll be your indicator to go into another family of dogs. Linebreeding/inbreeding does a couple of things...1. it locks in traits and 2. It brings the crap to the forefront so it can be culled from the family you are working with.
x2...if you like the male side then breed daughter to sire... then breed female pup from that litter and breed her to an uncle who is her mothers brother. get female pup from that litter and breed to grandsire...more than likely I would do it that way, if I were in your shoes... Just something im considering. The problem lies with this: I dont have access to any other family members from the male or female. I would be starting with just these 2. |
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 08:02:19 pm » |
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Yes they are correct . I have always said I let Mother Nature tell me when enuff is enuff of inbreeding are linebreeding. By that I mean you will see a decline in the dogs abilitys also see a decline in the air the staminia, speed you might see just one of these are you may see any combination and also you may even be able to see with your eyes the bone structure the underbite the teeth may not be as good so this is what I mean soon as you start to see any of these things that is when you need to go straight to the outcross. When you are linebreeding heavy and inbreeding heavy the one thing you should pay close close close attention and I mean close attention you should never ever see a decline in the Hunt the Game Drive, the Fire and Desire of the dog if you do you better stop right there and then because there is some trash in your line some were .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 08:32:16 pm » |
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Let me clarify this before I get a Pop Corn session going again .
Its easy to talk to my old Buddy's because we know what each other are meaning when we say certain things and I kinda say some things people don't understand .
What I meant by when you are heavy inbreeding and line breeding you need to pay close close close extra attention to is your dogs should never loose the fire the desire the hunt and the drive when doing this. I said you had better stop then and there because there is some trash in your line some were.
There may not be trash in there are there could be it could be that line just don't take the inbreeding are line breeding as good as some but this is my reasons why .
Again this is just me .
The heavier you can inbreed and line breed on a bloodline and it holds its DESIRE, HUNT, FIRE, DRIVE AND YOU CAN PUT ALL THESE INTO ONE WORD IF YOU WANT TO .
"GAMENESS" is what I call it really.
Then the stronger you line is without some kind of trash are were somebody just bred paper are just for the blood with out checking the dog !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Again this is just me . Its a test and I promise you it will bring out the bugs if there are any !
Bet you never knew it could be use that way .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2012, 08:39:02 pm » |
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Lmao!
People it takes years and years and years to do this kind of thing . I myself have done it with a different breed of dog and I have seen it but again this takes years and years and years to do of test breeding just to see what would happen and how far you could go .
When you loose the Heart you might as well number 2 can everything else I dont care how good they are this goes for any kind of sporting dog . Usally when we done this the weakest links came to the top pretty dang quick and the stronger lines from really good good great dog men went a long long ways in and never lost it . You could tell in a hurry who bred for pretty paper and who bred for the real dogs!
So there you go. Again just me but I lived it and seen it . I would not suggest anyone doing this unless you got 25 years to dedicate and a lot of culls !
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Scott
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2012, 09:21:32 pm » |
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Very good posts TexasHogDogs...I think the same way you do  |
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smarlowe
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2012, 10:35:00 pm » |
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Think I'll stay clear of all breeding. I'm certainly cornfused now. Is this westvirginia hog doggers  ?? |
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dogboy42
Bay Dog
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Posts: 45
AB with out the bs
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2012, 08:05:45 am » |
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experience has taught me that ... pups may look like thier dads but they act like their mom.. we breed 3/4 line/in breed with 1/4 outcross for high performance. next we take the best performace breed one and breed it back to something really thight(u know which ones im talking about). the intergrity of the bloodline is kept while adding new genes.
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DogBoy....you are never too old to learn
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Reuben
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2012, 10:36:23 am » |
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experience has taught me that ... pups may look like thier dads but they act like their mom.. we breed 3/4 line/in breed with 1/4 outcross for high performance. next we take the best performace breed one and breed it back to something really thight(u know which ones im talking about). the intergrity of the bloodline is kept while adding new genes.
x2... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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