old school logic versus new school philosophy

[TexasHogDogs]

just because someone is old and has been doing sumthing for years dont mean ther doing it right.a dumass is a dumass know matter how old they are.its help if u have a wise older person who will take time to show u the ropes.

What the did you think I was refering to .  Did you think I was refering to A old dumbass that has been n the dogs for years on end and has not produced are done a thing?  LOL  Why would you ask someone like that the help you are give you advise ?

Am talking about dogmen and women that has had great suscess in his are her breeding program for years on end producing working dogs  no matter the breed its just about all the same just breeding for different things in differnt breeds all trying to get the best of the best.   A proven breeder of great dogs .   

[coach]

I agree dogs were a tool and had versitility. They were guard dogs, cow dogs, deer dogs and coon dogs. They had to do the work of 10 dogs all wrapped into one. We have screwed most of that up by not preserving some of these old lines. Lots of times people belived they could make the breed better by adding this or that to it and never preserved the lineage. Well now with new technology and DNA we can preserve the better lines of dogs although some need to stop breeding crappy dogs to crappy dogs to make a buck. Use the old breeding of good to good to = better dogs and cull hard has worked for me. Lots of people just don't have the heart to do it.

[TexasHogDogs]

Yes when people are breeders stop breeding there dogs as tools which is what a working breed is.  A tool  herding cattle, catching cattle, catching hogs , finding hogs, mountain lions , coons what ever.  When they stop doing this and then just breeding on popular demand of some one dog are two in there pedigree are for the almighty $ and everying swing stump starts to buy them and breeding them every swinging way with no know how what so ever this is when the lines and breedings suffer and turn to you know what .

[coach]

everyone tries to cash in on the supply and demand!!

[dan]

These last few posts are exactly what happens to all of the great cur lines.

Plenty of guys are trying to "Cash in" on the Parker Cur now.

I hate it when someone says "Breeding to get my money back".  If you can't afford to loose, don't play!

[Bigdog]

goose i wasnt trying to b a smartass and im sorry if i came off like that.i guess wat im trying to say is there are guys who have been dogging for years without ne luck and wont never get it no matter how old they are.there are guys with less time in it who might catch on faster than sum.but i think i misunderstood ur post so i reread it.if ur talking more bout the dogs, than the handlers,i know here wer i live guys didnt have a pack for everything they just had hunting dogs.my family had dogs that they run deer in the day and took the same dogs and treed coon that nite and never had a deer race.or take the same dogs and tree a mess of squrriels.or go and round up hogs or cows.i think they just used there dogs like a tool like u said if they didnt produce the wer gone.but used to around here everyone had a ole dog or two they hunted,now hardley ne one has dogs,and most are to busy to hunt.i was lucky to grow with sum good hunters and have had all kind of hunting dog since i was a little kid.i hope i didnt offend u in ne way.

[Reuben]

goose i wasnt trying to b a smartass and im sorry if i came off like that.i guess wat im trying to say is there are guys who have been dogging for years without ne luck and wont never get it no matter how old they are.there are guys with less time in it who might catch on faster than sum.but i think i misunderstood ur post so i reread it.if ur talking more bout the dogs, than the handlers,i know here wer i live guys didnt have a pack for everything they just had hunting dogs.my family had dogs that they run deer in the day and took the same dogs and treed coon that nite and never had a deer race.or take the same dogs and tree a mess of squrriels.or go and round up hogs or cows.i think they just used there dogs like a tool like u said if they didnt produce the wer gone.but used to around here everyone had a ole dog or two they hunted,now hardley ne one has dogs,and most are to busy to hunt.i was lucky to grow with sum good hunters and have had all kind of hunting dog since i was a little kid.i hope i didnt offend u in ne way.

I totally agree with you... some dog folks never get it no matter how long they have been in it...whether it is breeding better dogs or bringing out the best in a dog...but that is like anything else...you have good mechanics, sorry mechanics, even doctors and cooks...just the way it is...

[TexasHogDogs]

There is three things I would like to add to this as I have seen over the years with the dogs.

One of the things I have noticed over the years is this .  There are some people that are great breeders and poor dog handlers trainers and vise versa there is some people that are great dog handlers trainers and very poor breeders.

Number 1
I have seen men with a great eye for a working dog pick one out that you would never think would amount to crap and  he could handle a dog, condition a dog ,work a dog, and make a straight yard dog into a champion kinda dog but then could not for the life of themselves make a breeding that ever amounted to a hill of beans .  I have never figured this one out how can someone be so great at handling, training and with such a great eye for a working dog but could never get a grip on the breeding side of things at all and never produce much of noting.

Number 2
Then again I have seen men that were great great breeders a with a great feel for a dog and he could put a pair of dogs together that no one ever even dreamed of and make a whole herd of champion kind of dogs and then produce lines and families of dogs but for the life of him he could never ever train a dog are conditon a dog.  Its the damnest thing .

Number 3

Now folks this one is rare real damn rare.  This is a man that posses a eye for a working dog and a man that also has a great feel for breeding dogs and produces champion kind a of working dogs  and a man that could work, handled and train a dog.  These are rare folks and these are the guys that go down in history !

I was once told by a old old dog man .  Hey son either you are born with it are you are not .  Somethings can be taught and you can learn somethings but then there is some things that a man is just born with .  These are the great great breeders and dogmen of the present and most of the past !

[Reuben]

yep...it is kind of like a great quarterback or pitcher...just because they are the best at their game do does not automatically make them great coaches...kind of hard for me to understand that...

[goose]

big dog no offense taken here brother i completely understand where your coming from i appreciate a mans opinion on things and i hope you werent thinking i was calling you one either

[kerreydw]

back in the 50,60,70s my grandfather did lots of coonhunting he had mainly walker dogs had tons of pics of some fine hounds threw the years they were mainly the walker dogs but in some of the pics there were some triggs,blackandtans,plots etc. asked him why mainly walkers? said they fit his hunting style and at the time and the area he was in they seemd to be the best. he culled real hard i know he bought differnt dogs and differnt bread dogs. i never remember him talking about selling any dogs if they were good dogs they were not for sale,my uncle told me that if it was a different dog than a walker and he was on the oldmans yard he was top notch i dont remember him talking about breeding lots of pups he liked to buy them around the 6mounth age.i remember him talking about getting most of his walker dogs from two different men the others came from hunting comp.he said that there were good dogs in all the old familys alot of the good bread hounds back in the day you couldnt buy from the people if you werent in there group you couldnt buy a dog from them period. Now everyone has them for sale soon as the are 4or5 weeks old if your gonna take the time to breed them take the time and let them mature i dont know anyone that can pic a 5week old pup and have any idea if they got a cull or a ace. the dog bussines was about breeding and selection of the best ones,now its mass production and money.

[bigo]

  The trait that has suffered the most from new school philosophy is mouth. Back before tracking units, a loud mouth that carried well was very important. The first thing the people I grew up around would ask about a dog was his finding ability and mouth. I still won't breed a dog that has a sorry mouth.

[Crossstock]

Times have changed... Breed lines have changed... Hunting styles have changed....open vs. silent has changed...most people hunt silent dogs and cull open dogs...nothing will ever stay 100 % the same.... I'm sure when my boys or my buddy's kids start hunting this same ? Will be ask and it will have all changed again... I can tell you a big part of the change in hog dogging is no one person is the same we all want something different...a dog is a dog and staying pure in a line is only good for the person that wants it... I'm not saying crosses are better by no means... This sport has exploded in the past couple of years... The old timers caught hogs same as the young guns catch hog... Neither one is better or knows more than each other... Everyone had to start some where... Now I do belive some dogs are over priced and un-healthy do to one person being impatient and getting more dogs than he can handle... That goes for young and old to... I'm not a great hog hunter but I will listen to young and old opinions.... My dogs are crossed up and some pure breed... I'm also getting a 5/8 ybmc 1/4 Dane 1/8 pit will I guess that puts me in the younger generation with no hunting ability and not so good dogs... Well to the older guy that are stuck in there ways that's your way and it works for you... My way works for me... No disrespect to any old timers out there... One thing will never change we all love to hog dog...

[Reuben]

like already mentioned nothing stays the same and not everyone likes the same type of dog...

I knew a man who got a dog from me who caught over 250 hogs with that dog in one year...he thought that that dog was ok and sold him back to me for the same price because he was whipping up on his cow dogs...I thought the dog was a better than average dog but he didn't...He also had a catahoula that was a great cow dog and a great hog dog in his eyes but I wouldn't have fed that dog because I am not into cow dogs and I saw where that dog lacked as a hog dog...

Several guys had some of my dogs after I got out of hog hunting for a little while, and several didn't like the long range stick with the track no matter what type of dogs they were...they also didn't like the dogs to open some on track...it took me about 20 years to get them like that and I wouldn't feed the kind of dogs those guys liked...but that is just how it is...

another liked to keep one of these dogs on the boat as a winding dog but would only send the other dogs and not the winding dog because he wouldn't quit a hog if the hog broke bay or if there were more hogs the dog would relay...definitely not the dogs for a poacher...  he had the nose that the other dogs lacked...

no one appreciates a line of dogs like the breeder of that line or maybe another true dog man that appreciates a good dog no matter the bloodline or who/where the dog comes from...

but in the future I believe that it will be dogs that bark little and catch a lot...not necessarily short range dogs but dogs that will not let a hog break when 2 or 3 of these type of dogs get to a big boar at about the same time...whether he is running or laid up in his bed...

Mouth and finding ability are very important to me but the whole package is the most important and that is what we all should be striving for...

[KevinN]

Reuben, I like it!

[bigo]

 If you walked onto a persons place that I was talking about and saw a dog that was breathing and taking up space, you knew he was pretty good and could get the job done. A really good find dog with a great mouth was like iceing on the cake. I still like to beed them the old way, to please me and only me and do the job the way I won't it done. If someone else likes them thats great and if they don't, thats fine too, because I don't keep them to make money.