Track dogs VS Cast dogs

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

The reason I wanted to start this thread is because we are dealing with a big decision in the near future concerning whether or not to breed for one or the other ,, OR.. keep breeding for both type dogs..  We have lost too many in the last 4 yrs of the cast dogs so I am gonna have to go out of my kennels to breed to some of the ones we have given to other feller to hunt..  What is your favorite type dog and why..

[NLAhunter]

I prefer cast type dogs none dogs we have are real track mined dogs you might cast one a track they might get in there deep enough to warm it up and take it but they not going try work out a cold track I have had couple crosses in past that would try on track little bit but wouldn't call em track dogs by no means now with that being said I always wanted 1 track dog to put on big tracks crossing roads and I raised a hound last year to try make one but she didn't make the cut

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[The Old Man]

I would think that a "cold nosed" cast dog, could be leashed until he smelled the track you had found then released, that would alleviate him firing out of there and missing the track you had found. I think one dog as described could function both ways. After a few times he'd probably distinguish between just being dropped and sent or a cold track pointed out to him on a leash.

[BA-IV]

I’ve always been high on track dogs, but after raising a pile of dogs, I’d rather raise cast dogs. I can make a cast dog take a track with alil patience and it’s hard to find the motor in one nowadays, so if you got it go that route.  Now with plotts, I think any decent bred will be inclined to track hunt, but not many will cast deep.

My male dog and his sister was a natural cast dog from puppy stages. I knocked it on out of him by making him grind a track alil bit while on a lead rope and slow down. Now he’s alil bit of both.

[NLAhunter]

What I meant to say was dogs we have are not real track minded dogs I just read it realized I wrote it wrong Yes sir Mr clue I am sure you could do that with some these dogs they got enough since to figure it out if you did it consistently with em I just never have I just kick em out let em go look for one

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[Reuben]

I prefer cast dogs that can take a decent track and warm it up….if moving along the dogs are circling or crisscrossing and checking in at about 15 minutes without slowing down as they pass through…they are hunting the wind currents for hog or hog track scent….drift on track looking for the hotter tracks and then go…

If not moving along the dogs will cast pretty far looking for hog so it is best to keep moving when we can…

I don’t care for a cold nosed dog that is not a good cast and find dog…a cold nosed dog that casts, winds, drifts and finds quickly is hard to beat in my opinion….

[Reuben]

A cold nosed dog that casts, winds, drifts and finds quickly is hard to beat in my opinion….this dog is a well balanced dog that will take a decent track and put a hog at the other end of it…

[t-dog]

This is a good thread bud.

My opinion is much the same as the Oldman’s. I also agree that hunt can’t be put in them but you can dial it back. Track minded is “usually” something that hounds or dogs with hound influence take to a little more natural. Of course non-hounds can do it and if they are started that way would probably do it just as a second nature. My dogs carry a hound influence. One of my mature dogs is going to take the first thing he smells and try his best to put a hog at the end of it. My other one will leave a cold track alone to search for a hotter one, but if she doesn’t find one in given period of time, she will go back and grub it. Both have their pluses and minuses. Having one of each works in my favor and it’s actually fun to watch when he’s grubbing something she left alone. I like to see which one will get bayed first. If you want to be able to cast dogs then keep breeding cast dogs and convert however many you want into track dogs. I recommend this route because you could very easily lose or breed away from dogs that cast/hunt because it’s no longer a trait you’re focused on. All of a sudden one day you have the same dogs on paper as the current dogs but they no longer perform the same because you quit placing emphasis on as many characteristics.

I’m curious, is it your belief that you are losing cast dogs because they are too far away for you to get to them in a reasonable amount of time or what is your reasoning?


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[TheRednose]

This is a good topic and interesting how every one looks at it.

I have hunted with both types on hogs and big game and when hog hunting the best I have hunted with have been casting winding type dogs with a lot of hustle, medium or hot nosed. They were about getting bayed as fast as possible. These types of dogs would not take tracks. Many times we would put them on tracks and they would just blow out the opposite way on their own and bay a different hog. And I definitely never seen one grub a track out, just not the style of dogs they were. We also tried track dogs but we never had one we really liked. They were usually too slow and barked way too much and we would do a whole lot of trailing not much catching. Ours didn't do both but I know people definitely have dogs that can.

In the big game world I have seen both pure hounds and pure curs that were good at both, so I know it's possible. In fact our cats dogs cast until they hit a track and then have to be able to work that track. In my opinion and like someone else stated it has a lot to do with how you start them and how you hunt them. Another example when bear hunting we used to have dogs we could rig, cast, road, or start off baits and tracks. The guys with the best rig dogs rigged the most, the guys with the best track dogs drove roads and dropped on tracks the most. I can think of a time in particular where we got a depredation call on a specific bear, we just drove roads on that ranch until we found paper plate size tracks and put our start dogs down on that, and they took that track straddling it until they got jumped.

Lastly I think if it was me I would focus on trying to breed dogs with big motors, crazy drive, and at least some range because like my old mentor would tell me you can take it out of them but you can't put it in them. I think you would have more success training dogs to take tracks through repetition and patience then to get a dog to cast and really hustle, can't train drive its either in them or not and you can only do things to encourage it and bring it out. My belief is if you have a dog with a ton of drive you can train them to do almost anything. Just my opinion and good luck.

[Shotgun66]

I prefer cast dogs but I hunt track dogs. For me, it’s about aligning your dogs with the places you have to hunt and the time you have to hunt. North Texas is undergoing a population boom and our places to hunt are drying up and getting smaller. I have to hunt smaller tracts of land. Work & Family responsibilities relegate me to hunting the occasional weekday evening and weekends. It’s better for me to have dogs that I can drop in sign that get bayed relatively soon.

I used to have hard going cast dogs and it got to where I was out hunting the places I had and crossing roads all the time. Whiteknuckles, puckered you know what chasing dogs on the Garmin hoping they didn’t get ran over wasn’t much fun.

I’ve come to appreciate the ability to just go hunt for an hour or two and be able to bay/catch a hog or two, catch em up & come home. There are times when sign is thin that I miss cast dogs. If I had more country & time to hunt, I would have cast dogs first sure.


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[Cajun]

  Not all of my dogs are cast dogs but most  all are trail dogs. I do have some that are both and that is what I breed for. I can always put brakes on them but I cannot put a motor in them. We track a lot and also depend on our dogs to rig tracks that we might miss.

[Reuben]

Cast dogs that will take a colder track has a lot to do with the type of dogs we hunt…it also has a lot to do with how we hunt them as to how cold a track they will take or how they will cast and hunt…when I hunted quite a bit with folks that hunted the way I hunted my dogs, my worked colder tracks…it’s all about bringing out the best from our dogs when we hunt them and that is my main focus when hunting with them…

I have a friend that I’ve given excellent quality pups back when I hunted quite a bit and we hunted together at times…so I knew some of those dogs should hunt as good as mine…they were good hunting dogs but because of his style of hunting his dogs lacked a few qualities they should have been good at…

He doesn’t really pay much attention to the wind when casting nor his dogs for that matter…he drops his dogs and rolls out on the wheeler or ATV…they don’t cast as far unless it’s a smoking hot track because they are more worried about keeping up…they don’t pay much attention to hog scent in the wind unless it’s fairly strong….and won’t take a hot track…but my dogs would and because the breeding was close to the same they should work about the same…the difference wasn’t the dogs but the two different hunting styles of the dog owners which was and is way different from one another…like the total opposite…

[The Old Man]

I think Rueben brings up yet another style of hunting a dog, roading. I would consider it roading if you used a S X S or 4 wheeler or your truck and eased along letting the dog hunt, whether or not you were on a road. To me a cast dog it sent from a stationary vehicle to go hunting and find a track or the game. I would call track hunting driving  until you saw a track you wanted to put down on and put the dog directly on that track. Then of course there is rigging.

[Reuben]

I like casting the dogs and once gone listen for the strike and them driving as close as possible...it’s more a combination of casting and roading…the idea is to develop the all around strike dog…

[NLAhunter]

Yea I think same as the old man said when I think of casting a dog I pull up to a spot kick dogs out and eat sausage and shoot the bull until they get bayed and then see where they at and head around to em not in no great big hurry to get there. Then you have roading rigging track hunting ect.  I know Ruben mentioned people not paying attention to wind when casting dogs these dogs we have you ain't hardly going to cast em with the wind they might go in there few hundred just to get away from you but they are going turn around and get wind in there face and go

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[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

This is a good thread bud.

My opinion is much the same as the Oldman’s. I also agree that hunt can’t be put in them but you can dial it back. Track minded is “usually” something that hounds or dogs with hound influence take to a little more natural. Of course non-hounds can do it and if they are started that way would probably do it just as a second nature. My dogs carry a hound influence. One of my mature dogs is going to take the first thing he smells and try his best to put a hog at the end of it. My other one will leave a cold track alone to search for a hotter one, but if she doesn’t find one in given period of time, she will go back and grub it. Both have their pluses and minuses. Having one of each works in my favor and it’s actually fun to watch when he’s grubbing something she left alone. I like to see which one will get bayed first. If you want to be able to cast dogs then keep breeding cast dogs and convert however many you want into track dogs. I recommend this route because you could very easily lose or breed away from dogs that cast/hunt because it’s no longer a trait you’re focused on. All of a sudden one day you have the same dogs on paper as the current dogs but they no longer perform the same because you quit placing emphasis on as many characteristics.

I’m curious, is it your belief that you are losing cast dogs because they are too far away for you to get to them in a reasonable amount of time or what is your reasoning?

Man,, i wish it was that simple..or I would run behind em like a wild comanche...LOL.. It seems like bad luck more to me,, things that I would never guess happen to em from medical reasons to injuries that are just not the run of the mill hog dog injuries that you would be a custom to see and u are ready for..  I myself like the cast dog types better for our hunting areas  My son tends to like the track dog style cause he likes the ability to pick and choose what type hog he believes that he is giving them a shot at..  It takes a certain dog to work out a track that you put it on and you dont know how old are any idea where that hog could be bedding down at.. We can guess at how old these tracks are but in sand,, we just guessing unless the obvious evidence is there ,,like right after a rain or whatever....  I like dogs to go deep and wind ,, give up older tracks when they cant get em jumped and hunt like work horses in the woods not ever coming back to me and the next time I see em Im petting them on the head after a bay.   Now granted ,, it is a honor to have dogs that will grind out a track ,,stay on that one hog not getting thrown off because that good bo hog or barr is gonna run thru every pack of sows to just leave you catching a shoat after a 2 mile run.. LOL... But it is a good thing when you got dogs that will do both jobs and the good thing is you can reach in that dog box and grab the one you need when you need it...   


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[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

Yea I think same as the old man said when I think of casting a dog I pull up to a spot kick dogs out and eat sausage and shoot the bull until they get bayed and then see where they at and head around to em not in no great big hurry to get there. Then you have roading rigging track hunting ect.  I know Ruben mentioned people not paying attention to wind when casting dogs these dogs we have you ain't hardly going to cast em with the wind they might go in there few hundred just to get away from you but they are going turn around and get wind in there face and go

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I like what you said man,,,,  Thats just what I want,, a dog in a hurry to get away from me and go hunt...   LOL>..  I cant tell you the times in my early yrs of hunting where I was looking at the back end of a dog and him turning around looking at me ,,,, Makes a man wanna play golf...

[NLAhunter]

Lol yes a very smart dog man once told me only way to know how old a track is is if the hog is standing in it lol

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[The Old Man]

Before I started making mine follow me out of big country off leash they all cast well, would usually go .5 to 1 mile which was just right for hunting sectioned country. These days they just go about 2 to 4 hundred yds.
 In the last couple of years largely due to necessity of getting 4 to 8 of them out of big rough country by myself I started making them follow me out, sometimes even making them stay with me if we crossed another track, late in the day or getting too hot..  I thought they would catch on to going when I sent them and staying in when I asked them to, and they might if I was casting them more, but I have only "purely" casted them a small percentage of the time for the last couple of years.
Also they were hard to get to following me out, therefore took quite a lot of or a bit more severe correction which I am sure contributed to them being less apt to go without first smelling something.

[williamsld]

I’ve really enjoyed this thread topic!
When I was a kid we always roaded/track hunted our dogs

These days we’re almost solely casting them occasionally we’ll road them from one feeder to another feeder or something, that being said we did catch a sow this weekend sending them down a track we seen crossing the road the younger dogs(2) were grubbing out the track while the older gyp (4this summer) was drifting/winding the track running more straight of a line which is one of the things I love about these garmins they can show you a lot about your dogs we couldn’t see back in the day when we’d just drive around and listen or just had telemetry collars!


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