MADE ANOTHER HUNT TODAY

[The Old Man]

  Struck  a decent track, 3 of my dogs, about a half mile later things really sped up, at a mile they came bayed. Had a decent boar probably 150 lbs and he provided some anti-catch training for one of my older young dogs. He was bayed in a root ball hole from a big blowdown tree. Way before we got to them he was baying hard "without" a mouthful of pork, If this hog would have had more tooth OL'Curly may not have still been with us. He got a 5 inch vertical cut right in the center of his chest just below where his neck ties in, just skin deep, a 3 inch horizontal cut right in the center of his ribs that did get into the meat but not the cavity, and a pretty good cut in the hindquarter muscle. We went on from there and got into some shoats, mashed a few of them. Hope he has gotten wiser, I've seen some that do and some that don't.
Adam's pups missed out on that, his young female that is older had took another track "very independent" and his pup had went with her they were out of communication alot so don't really know what they were doing, pretty sure they were running hogs as we had casted them right into a big bunch of deer and they didn't pay them any attention.
  We were forever getting into their country and they appeared to be trying to go home, so we rode 4 miles out and drove way around and found them on a road that led to Adam's house.

[WayOutWest]

Well you gotta hope that education takes. But some just get mad and want to get even. Looks like you are getting a decent start this year.

[t-dog]

Sounds like Ole Curly was just about able to step right out of his suit. Those size boars seem to be the ones that get dogs. They size them up and think they are small enough to handle only to find out that rascal forged in fire. Hopefully he’ll do a better interview next time before he makes a decision. Stay after them, your off to a real good start it sounds like.


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[The Old Man]

   Some Everett Weems, of Plott fame wisdom on the subject of rough dogs. He once told me bear dogs were the easiest performance dogs to breed and raise, I asked how so? He said those with more guts than brains the bear would kill them, those that quit and come out I kill them that just leaves the good ones left to breed. I think that can apply to hog dogs as well, it seems very logical, I want one that's rough enough to succeed but with enough intelligence and agility to survive. That's why most of use a catchdog, or a gun. What he described was a natural culling process, rough enough to eat but smart enough to survive without severe injury. Right back to the wolves instinct.
  I am aware that one can just get caught in a bad position now and again.

[The Old Man]

  Update on the bulldog, it was his first trip with us muleback. He didn't try to catch a mule haha, I didn't think he would as I'd exposed him at home, also had a collar on him set on cowboy high with my finger on the button, he followed off leash extremely well with very little correction, and still caught hard. I did send him once to a bay in the briars amongst the shoat excursion we had, from about 40 yds and it broke before he got in there and he did run with the dogs awhile until he caught a shoat on his own, he is an open trailing bulldog haha. I had taken the collar off of him so it wouldn't get torn up. I'll have break him to come back if a hog breaks on the way in.  He got lots of exercise though, we rode 13.8 miles besides the little extra he got running with the baydogs. So far so good for Ol'Blue.

[t-dog]

Old man, hogs know the difference between hounds and bulldogs. That bulldog was just trying to disguise himself as a hound so that the hogs might not be quite as scared, kind of a camouflage.

That’s pretty sound advice about the natural selection. Now and then you get those bay busters that don’t quit the hog but aren’t fully vested in catching and they are gonna try every hog. If a person isn’t paying attention those type will slip past you. Usually they get the better dogs hammered or worse. People that sit back and wait, that won’t leave the buggy to watch their dogs work might not realize this is going on. Sometimes you can watch the garmin and see what has happened.


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[The Old Man]

  I have pondered the bay busting with Curly, he's been part of 5 or 6 hog bays recently and has yet to flush a hog, not counting those shoats squirreling around in the briars. I've been paying attention because it's been different, I think maybe he has caught solid and hard for awhile and when he turns loose they just aren't running off. A couple of times when we were a long time getting there he would be baying but the hogs ears would be all marked up. If they were close we'd hear a squeal and or grunting he'd still be caught. Whatever is going on I would rather he'd back up and bark at a standing hog. And if he tries the wrong hog he will add data to the natural culling process.


  A long time ago I was hunting a pair of Plotts together and they began to wreck a few hogs, I was aggravated with them and had decided I couldn't hunt them together. One evening a fellow came by and told me he had saw some hogs cross close to home, so I grabbed them and turned them out where he told me they'd been. They ran over a good ways and bayed, I was walking to them listening to the music and got to a big field and was able to see them a couple hundred yards away, there were 3 hogs backed up to an old wooden lot with the 2 dogs about 6-8 feet away just bowed down baying, the dogs weren't picking at the hogs at all. Very rare thing to bay one where you could see it and 75 ft behind the old lot there was a brushy draw.  I was just easing along there listening and watching when, with no apparent cause one of the hogs broke, the dogs ran up beside the hog each got an ear and after the hog stopped they each switched to a front leg just above the hogs elbow and were jerking on it. I saw they weren't catching unless the hog ran, and they somehow had learned how to quickly cripple one. Those they had wrecked had been broke down in the front end.
  Hunted in Texas with a dog that gutted every hog we bayed, under the flank in the soft part of the underbelly.   All that to say that dogs under use sometimes learn odd or uncommon things.

[t-dog]

Oldman I have seen exactly what you’re talking about in those scenarios. Sometimes it takes a little bit for those dogs that are teetering on the line of catch or don’t catch to learn to size up and know when to when. My Outlaw dog is one of those. I love what he decided to be but it definitely took some convincing. I think he was a lot the same as his daddy was. They don’t go in looking to catch but they bay tight, not trying to catch but not giving any  save either. A lot of those boars would rush them naturally, but they didn’t have any back up so they would just catch. Sometimes it would work out in their favor and sometimes it was a bad outcome for them. Outlaw learned and has really gotten good about using stock sense. His daddy never learned it. He stayed on injured reserve as much as he was healthy to hunt and eventually naturally culled. Outlaws uncle was the worst kind of dog for my liking. He tried every hog. I saw him get cut by every hog we bayed in a day and not catch a single one. He wasn’t getting close and then rushed, he was literally wading into the brush and forcing an attempt. I watched him get Outlaws littermate brother killed because he was counterfeit and tried a boar in almost knee deep creek water. He got cut and backed up but Outlaws brother committed and was left solo. He didn’t make it to the vet. Outlaws uncle had 11 substantial cuts from that me hunt, his last one with me. The dog that died was 10 times the dog he was. I noticed the better stock sense my dogs have the more baying I get to watch. It makes hunting a lot more fun to me because I’m way more about watching the dogs work than I am about catching a hog. I’d say I consider each hunt a training session more than a hunt. I try to do the things to help my dogs get better each time.


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[NLAhunter]

Sounds like bulldog is gonna work out for you

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[The Old Man]

  I think so, was pretty fortunate, I guess. You can't just get a pound bulldog for a catchdog with a great amount of success anymore and so far other than wishing he was bigger, I like him. He is far better than no catchdog. I just got spoiled to the 80-90 lb catchdogs that were still athletic, they just keep their feet on the ground better and more easily handle bigger hogs. Not an absolute must but still a plus.

[Cajun]

Y'all have been getting some good hunts in. Sounds like you have more hogs then you used to have. I believe it was one of the Plott boys that said that the bears  kill the plotts that are too rough and he kills the ones that are not rough enough. Ole Everett sure did produce a good strain of bear hounds.

[The Old Man]

We seem to have a few more this year than the last few years, but still not nearly as many as we once had. And part of was in easy hunting areas, pretty much sectioned off with roads, but now probably due to the easy access they are scarce in there. A few thermal hunters in the area.

[Slim9797]

We seem to have a few more this year than the last few years, but still not nearly as many as we once had. And part of was in easy hunting areas, pretty much sectioned off with roads, but now probably due to the easy access they are scarce in there. A few thermal hunters in the area.

The thermal has ruined the last bit of country that ain’t been sold off around here. Not a single “thermal” hunter I know can stand to look through that scope at something and not shoot it.

[The Old Man]

   Went again yesterday, old dog struck one of the young dogs was with him they left out, two of the youngest dogs came by us going towards them but didn't get far and pulled up bayed, we listened a little bit and they broke and bayed a couple more times close to the first bay before staying bayed. We went to them and they were in a terrible pile of briars, sent the bulldog and it broke just before he got there, race is on again, they didn't bay right away again.  We rode to the top of the hill where the other two dogs had gone over and they were 900 and something on over show bayed then move but always in a small area, on the map showed a pond. I figured they were in and out of the pond so started on over that way, just me, my mule, and the bulldog. I was riding through tear through brush so stopped to listen and didn't hear them so looked on the tracker and they were running directly away from me. I rode on to where they'd been for so long and when I popped up on the pond bank there were 3 hogs standing just off the bank on the other side, I sicced the bulldog and he saw them, he broke for them but they weren't real scared after having been bayed for over an hour but still when he got close they started to run but one of the boars turned to fight,Ol' Blue caught him, just 125 lbs or so. I hobbled him got Blue off and ear marked and barred him, he was a pretty good kind mostly black with a little brown mixed in bu the had a tightly curled tail,
'we're particular about our herd boars haha". By then Adam came on over there and I left him with Blue and the hog to go get the other two they were next to the interstate fence, I wanted them away from there. During all this Adam's older dog and the two pups were bayed on the other side of the hill so we started back to them. Got there and they had what appeared to be the same spotted hog that had broke bay earlier. Sent  the bulldog and he plain missed. On the way out of that area we came across 2 dead piglets, I would guess that spotted hog was a sow and had a bed of pigs is why she didn't leave  out initially.

 Ol'Blue has dropped the ball, there was a couple of hogs caught where there wasn't an ear available and he caught the jowl or the side of the face between the jowl and the corner of the mouth. I guess since that since thats all he could get he thinks that's his spot. He caught that loose boar the same way.   Next hog we catch if he's not on the ear  I'm gonna break him off and put him on the ear so he can see that is better, maybe that will work, I don't know, but he needs to grab that handle it there is one there. I believe that's why he missed that sow the pups had bayed the second time. I am not a catch dog guru but all of them I have fooled with liked to catch wherever they first had a successful catch and the first few for him was ear only.

  I can't begrudge the thermal hunters because they take a lot of hogs and they are detrimental to all ag processes but they have hampered our hog population.
There are some places that I promised landowners we'd kill or take and dispose of what we caught and we do, Adam even sends them some pics for PR purposes. But there are places that don't contain that agreement in which case we manage hogs.

[t-dog]

I agree about the thermal hunters. Our numbers are very high. I use to not even like to see traps set where I hunted, but anymore, I’m convinced the only way to keep them in check is for traps, thermals, and dogs all to be a part of the solution. We have too many and I know sounds dumb to hear a hunter say, but too many presents issues just like not have enough does. They aren’t the same issues just issues. I’ll take having too many over not enough though.

I’m betting you’re spot on about the catch dog. In my opinion your plan is solid. If he started out an ear dog I bet he’ll groom back to it. A light stimulation with a firm
no when you break him will also help if he’s a thinker. It’s kind of a short cut to rewiring him to catch ear. Between the stimulation, the verbal no, and you allowing him to grab the ear with positive attention for that, he’ll switch. If he doesn’t you probably won’t fix it. When I’ve done it, I let them wrestle the hog a little while on the ear to see that they have better holding potential and leverage with the ear.  I hope he gets right because it sounds like he’s a pretty decent dog.


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[The Old Man]

  Until Friday I had been very happy with him, catching and handling as well. Friday I did get to bring back to me when the hog broke twice, I'd left the collar on him and bumped him back to me while calling him. I don't like to have a tracking collar on my catchdog, for one I'm a tight wad and don't want a collar damaged and secondly that is just something else to hamper their mobility and flexibility so I break them to come back after a little ways when I holler at them.
  I hope he gets over the location issue too, even though he is smaller than I like, that only matters if there aren't any baydogs to help him once he hits the hog, and sometimes due to split races, there may be only one mild baydog that has a big hog bayed.

[t-dog]

Old man I don’t think a whole bunch of people think a whole bunch of people think about that mobility issue. I run a tracking collar on my catch dogs the whole hunt, but I put the body of the collar on top of the dogs neck and under the cut vest. I think about it like this, if that box is on the underside then that dog can’t tuck his chin and bend like he might need to. I mean put your fist or a tennis ball under your chin and try to look at your toes without bending at the waist. Then put it on the back of your neck and do it and see which makes it easiest. They can pick their heads up as high and backwards as they need to and not be hampered by it with it on the top of the neck. I don’t run full length vests. My vests are altered and only have two back straps. They angle back towards the belly the lower they get on the sides. I leave the back strap that is furthest back a tad loose so that they can flex easy and I don’t restrict their breathing any. The modified vest also lets more heat out. The only strap that is snug is the one over the shoulder to keep the vest from gaulding them. I have several opinions about cut vests if y’all can imagine me having an opinion about anything. Mobility and heat are my two biggest concerns.


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[The Old Man]

 My vest is made the same way, with a cut collar attached and a chin flap, I don't adjust the cut collar real tight. It is just layered kevlar so it is light, flexible, and doesn't hold very much water. When I ordered it the chin flap was debatable but I figured if I didn't like it I'd just cut it off. I didn't find it to be a problem.