Thoms balck mouth curs out of Three Rivers , TX

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Wrong Mike....Both men have the same dogs and the same line..They are friends and Foundation Breeders...

[grittydog]

DGDawson do you still have WBen dogs on your yard?

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Yes, I am not downing the dogs...Great dogs...My point is that to have the best luck with getting a hog dog, you would be better off by getting one from hunting stock.  I also don't believe you can just grab any foundation dog and breed it and get great pups.  I believe in genetics, but that is pushing it a bit...I believe you should prove a stud dog in the field and in the breeding ring...

[Txmason]

Greg,
Your so right, both men have the same line of dogs and both are TDHA members.
If you want to learn about the lines just call them but if you don't want to stay on the phone a long time, best not to call.
These two men have a world of knowledge and are willing to share.
I have a Wben registered pup that is a year old and will be working with him.
Have had other breeds of B/M and some turned out good and some were the exception.

David Thom and Randy Wright are long time breeders of B/M.
They live to work their dogs and breed to pass on what they have learned, no one breed pleases every one but like their policy, like it or bring it back.

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Guys - I don't believe I was bad mouthing the men...I just don't believe you can breed any foundation dog and get all great dogs...I have talked to David, good man...I just believe that if I were starting out I would rather get my pup from someone who line bred hog dogs....I have foundation dogs in my yard, I also have non-papered hog dog blood in my yard.  I am just trying to let new hunters know that there are better options than paying $500 for a pup they may or may not turn out.  Unfortunatly, many people bond with their dogs, and after keeping the dog for 1.5 years are going to keep it.  Now, those that view the dog as a tool will take it back (evidently this never happens)...

[Mike]

Wrong Mike....Both men have the same dogs and the same line..They are friends and Foundation Breeders...

I realize that, but this thread is about Thom's dogs from Thom's yard... y'all went way off track on Randy Wright's program. And yes, from my view point there was some bad mouthing on a few of those posts.

[Mike]

Guys - I don't believe I was bad mouthing the men...I just don't believe you can breed any foundation dog and get all great dogs...I have talked to David, good man...I just believe that if I were starting out I would rather get my pup from someone who line bred hog dogs....I have foundation dogs in my yard, I also have non-papered hog dog blood in my yard.  I am just trying to let new hunters know that there are better options than paying $500 for a pup they may or may not turn out.  Unfortunatly, many people bond with their dogs, and after keeping the dog for 1.5 years are going to keep it.  Now, those that view the dog as a tool will take it back (evidently this never happens)...

That's another good point, but most old timers that have a line of hog dogs... no one can get their hands on them. Unless you're a very close friend or family member, you'll never see these dogs for sale.

[dgdawsonBMCs]

The only thing that I said that could be taken for bad mouthing is doubting that WB and Bounty Hunter never threw a cull....and also doubting that they could routinely run 16-18 hour old tracks..These statements can be see free and clear on wrightscurs.com...  WB was bred to 40+ females...so lets say they had an average of 5 pups each breeding.  Now we have 200 WB pups, of which maybe a 100 were males...Does anyone out there know of any sons of WB except Yellow Jacket and Bounty Hunter?  If you can breed just any foundation dog and get great pups, then why are these the only ones you hear about?  I have Yellow Jacket (imho the best blood from WB) blood and I have some culls...

[dgdawsonBMCs]

That's another good point, but most old timers that have a line of hog dogs... no one can get their hands on them. Unless you're a very close friend or family member, you'll never see these dogs for sale.

True, but I have had some success in asking them if I could come hunt with them and then getting them to like me.  Once they know that I am serious about leaning dogs, I can get one or at least get a female bred. If you show up in an old timers yard (and he isn't crazy) and tell him you have heard he has great dogs and ask what would it take to get some of his blood (if he liked you) he will help you..  Most of these people just want to know you are serious about dogs and that their pup wouldn't be wasted.

[Mike]

The only thing that I said that could be taken for bad mouthing is doubting that WB and Bounty Hunter never threw a cull....and also doubting that they could routinely run 16-18 hour old tracks..These statements can be see free and clear on wrightscurs.com...  WB was bred to 40+ females...so lets say they had an average of 5 pups each breeding.  Now we have 200 WB pups, of which maybe a 100 were males...Does anyone out there know of any sons of WB except Yellow Jacket and Bounty Hunter?  If you can breed just any foundation dog and get great pups, then why are these the only ones you hear about?  I have Yellow Jacket (imho the best blood from WB) blood and I have some culls...

That wasn't all that was said, that wasn't how it was said, and you weren't the only one saying it... now I would suggest you quit pushing the issue as it's already been resolved.

[dgdawsonBMCs]

Ok Mike you win....Maybe I could have said some things diff.  this is a message board and things can be written and read the wrong way.  Since you resolved it, I will try not to bring it up again.

[TexasJ]

Greg,
Your so right, both men have the same line of dogs and both are TDHA members.

I question whether David Thoms is an annual due paying member of the TDHA.  Typically, folks who are members are proud of that fact.  I could be mistaken, but my memory serves no recollection of David mentioning any membership outside his black mouth registry.  I know for a fact that I asked about any other involvements and can not recount any.

I question whether David Thoms had ever paid a membership due to TDHA. (You might make him some kind of member by default because he has devoted so much to maintaining high breeding standards for BMCs, but he's not driving around town with a TDHA sticker talking about how great it is to be a member.  

[UNDERDOG]

Dawson, do you have any pics of them Yellow Jacket dogs of yours working?

[dgdawsonBMCs]

none here at work..  http://kdsblackmouthcurs.com/hunts

Some of our dogs, most have wb blood..

[skoalbandett]

I want to say this... This post is not aimed at any man, breed or any particular line of dogs. Its one of those deals that if the shoe fits……
It really is this simple.. A good dog can come from anywhere.. he is were you find him. The trick is reproducing it with consistency over a long period of time, that separates the good lines from the average in the long haul There are no shortcuts to achieving that either, it takes years of work, education, culling, hunting, on and on. Most of all it takes being honest with yourself first.
Another truth is, the definition of what good is all across the board depending on each man’s opinion and criteria for what that is and what his personal definition of that is.
Another truth is, if a man (any man, any breed) says he don’t have culls, run from him as fast as you can.
One more, if it sounds to be good to be true, guess what?
 The dog world is as full of groupies as the entertainment world is for whatever reason or motive. The Internet is full of them, some wanting to ride on another mans success or reputation or to be a part of something. Others don’t really know and run with the ball. Listen to them and you hear the catch phrases and like claims made by their mentors, it aint hard to figure out where it came from and why. 
A person has a motive for what ever he dose, right or wrong, good or bad, discover what that is and you will know more truths and be better equipped with how to deal with it. Listen to your eyes, not your ears.   I can’t tell you how many times and people over the years that I have tried to go or gone to look at dogs and hunt with people, some that have been mentioned on here and been totally disappointed with what I saw or what I found to be the truth. In fact, 95% of them make some excuse and wont even take you or show you. Why? Like anything else, if you are knowledgeable enough and will be honest with yourself with what you see, you will be way down the road with getting to where you want to go when it comes to the truth.
 I did not see any of the post that apparently were removed but Dawson, I have to say I do agree with much of what I read on this at this point.  There is so many things that go into all this it is impossible to write it in one post but one of them that I agree with Dawson on is this. I have always believed, no matter the breed, if you want a hog dog, go to a man who actually hog hunts consistently and knows what he is doing and has been doing it a long time and been raising his own dogs for many years. If he can’t take you to the woods and show ya, don’t buy (forget about reputation or what you see in a bay pen, Its go find, track, stop and bay that matter in a hog dog). Same can be said for bear dogs, cow dog, bird dogs, tree dogs or any kind of working dogs. Forget the talk, the hype, the PR, the reputation, the man’s name, the breed, go see for yourself. That is, once you are educated enough you fully understand what the heck you are looking at. Don’t go once, go several times.
I also agree with Dawson on this, you bet, any man, any breed, if he produces enough dogs a year a few of them sure as heck should turn out but what about the rest of them you never hear about? What actual percentages of them actually turn out to be decent? Tell me a bout the man who is calling him decent so I can make up my mind what I think of his opinion. More over, how they heck do they really know? Truth is, they don’t. It’s the few you do hear about and turn out that keep the program alive and thriving and in some cases the $$$ rolling in.

No, we don’t sell pups, we fall into Dawson’s description of men who have raised the same line of and hunted dogs for many years and don’t sell dogs or pups. I agree with him on that definition to.
I don’t say that to mean there is anything wrong with selling dogs or pups, but, $$$ signs change people, motivate people and cloud truth to many times and that’s just a 10000% fact. Ego and power do the same thing. The truth ain’t always a warm fuzzy or kind.
Past that, what dose it all matter anyway, each feller should do what they want to, they are the one’s footin the bill.

[dgdawsonBMCs]

For those wanting to find men who hold their dogs accountable look no further than Skoal and bigO...I wish I had known about them a few years back.  I would have went and camped out at their door to get them to give me one of their better culls

Skoal - Still waiting for you to post on the cur board and tell us about the bunny hugging nurse

[Circle C]

Another truth is, the definition of what good is all across the board depending on each man’s opinion and criteria for what that is and what his personal definition of that is.
Another truth is, if a man (any man, any breed) says he don’t have culls, run from him as fast as you can.

x2

[Mike]

Skoalbandett, excellant post. Very respectful and 100% truthful... thank you.

[Rockin-P-Ranch]

skoal you hit the nail on the head

[elliscountyhog]

If i start a line of Ellis Curs will yall talk about my dogs this good   One of these days Bryant will get me one of these good bmc Hint Hint