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DubbleRDawgs
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« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2010, 09:47:02 pm »

welcome ,i have always had a dream to go down under ,maybe  one day it will happen .. liked the looks or your dogs . seen pics of some monster hogs there .
  have you caught any of those Huh?
    again welcome
      robert
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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2010, 11:23:04 pm »

Sorry Noah, missed the question about the pig buyers.
Various companies operate chillers or boxes (refrigerated truck bodies or shipping containers) and pay for dressed wild pigs. Dressed means head on, skin on and heart, lungs, liver and kidneys in. Testicles are in too.
They pay on the kg weight (2.2lbs) usually around the $1 a kg. The pigs are taken to a central processing plant, cut up and then exported to Germany, Poland and Japan for the restaurant trade. The market has collapsed at the moment but some guys can make a living catching, but not many. Mostly it's for fuel money and vet bills. There are size limits on the pigs (usually none under 20kgs dressed and none over 160kg) based on the needs of the processing plant.
I can't make a living out of it so I have a contract gardening business with a couple of blokes working for me and we do a lot of work on game rich properties and stations (ranches). I also catch for the box when it's open, and we take a handful of paying visitors along for the ride. It's all designed to keep me in touch with pigs and my dogs as a lifestyle as well as a means of staying afloat.

So this is a pix of son Paul with a boar being weighed in at the chiller. The pig went 78kgs dressed  (about 170 lbs) although it might not look it in the photo. There's a fair bit of Paul (he's 6ft 3 or 4 tall and 120kgs...between 260lbs and 270lbs) so he makes the pigs look very average.

Cheers.
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Mike
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2010, 06:50:13 am »

Ned, what's the reason for leaving the liver, heart and lungs in? I always see them hanging out in all the Australian pictures and was wondering.
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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2010, 07:23:55 am »

Ned, I remember seeing you on another site somewhere. Share with these guys how you hunt over the scrub bulls, im sure everyone would really enjoy that.
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« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2010, 11:46:21 pm »

Ned, what's the reason for leaving the liver, heart and lungs in? I always see them hanging out in all the Australian pictures and was wondering.

G'day Mike, heart lungs etc are left in for the meat inspectors to check for signs of disease at the processing plant. They are hanging out because they are required by the terms of the game harvesting licensing system to be free of the chest cavity. This is to allow the chest cavity to air cool. These pigs are for human consumption so the rules are fairly strict.
Cheers.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2010, 11:48:11 pm by Ned Makim » Logged
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« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2010, 12:06:27 am »

Yes...the bull baits. Very exciting way to catch boars. Below is a piece I lifted from my blog http://makimdogs.blogspot.com/search/label/Welcome
(mods if addresses aren't OK feel free to remove, thanks)...

I'll add some pix after I go and give the dogs a run. It's 5pm here (today your time) now and I've got to get a few jobs done.
Cheers...


MY recent trip north after boars introduced me to an entirely new way of hunting, using bulls to catch boars.
I'd caught pigs off carcases before but it was a hit and miss type of thing. Always worth checking a body in the bush because it might hold pigs...But this was different. It was a specific tactic to attract big toothy boars out of their hiding spots into a GPSed area.
Brett had developed the method on this particular block because dead cattle had proven his best producer of good boars. So after years of leg work he had started specifically hunting scrub bulls (to help reduce the feral cattle population for the landholder and...) to draw out the best boars.

 
My son Paul and I were lucky enough to see the system in practice, first hand.
It all starts immediately after the basic camp is set up. Straight out on the track to look for likely bull areas. The idea is to get the bulls on the ground as quickly as possible to give them time to 'ripen'. That took about five days in the climate we were in.
After the bulls are shot, near water, near a track somewhere reasonably accessible on foot, it is checked every day for tracks and it's state of decomposition. In this spot the pigs seems to have had little to do with people and scent does not seem an issue. Each day the bull changes and so do the tracks. After they've blown up and started to deflate, a dingo would usually open them up properly. The hide seems too thick for boars to open on their own.
Once the bull is open, the boars drag out pieces of meat and toss them up before appearing to swallow them like an oyster. (We know this because we also had a trail cam set up on different baits every few days.)
Just before the big gorge begins, you could expect one boar and sometimes two, to move in to claim the feast.

 
We'd arrive at night and check the baits, fresh tracks might tells us one was close by. Sometimes there was no sign at all but often they dogs would drop their nose to the ground or stick it up in the air and run straight onto a tusky pig.
The drill was always the same; load up the selected dogs and plate them up (put on their protective breastplates). Check our tracking gear had plenty of battery strength, same with torches and cameras. Throw plenty of food, water, go fast drinks such as V or Mother and first aid gear on board.
Drive to within a km of the bait (sometimes a lot closer if the bait had been well placed), unload the dogs and walk in. We'd have two definite luggers and two trainees. We also had one veteran finder out of the two luggers as well. The objective was to leave enough opening for a younger dog to step up in performance but not so much of a gap that we risked losing a good boar.
If we made it to the bull without the dogs hitting a boar we'd look at the body, check for signs of boar activity and wait while the dogs continued to scout about. While the bull was approaching the prime rotting time the boars seemed to be closer in but after the feeding had begun the average distance from the body increased.
Mostly, if it was on, it was on from the word go. The dogs would head to the bait more agitated than normal. They'd either pounce immediately on a boar within metres of the bait or start zig zagging through the grass or running in big circles. The zig zags would turn into a big arcing run straight to the pig. And the circles either sent a dog off at a straight line tangent to land on the pig or the circles got tighter and tighter and ended up with a boar in the bullseye. It was wild, knowing it was all about to happen but not sure just where, maybe right at your feet...
It was always at night time and it was always quiet, just the dogs getting through the scrub. Really straining your ears to hear the first sound of the dogs hitting a camped boar, full of anticipation. Then the sound and you're full of adrenalin, running through long grass and scrub to get to the fight. You can see the tusks on these pigs from a good way out in the light of the headlamps. You can see them banging into the dogs' breastplates and, sometimes, the dogs.
You know they will whack them into you if you give the pig the chance too.
It is a high risk, high yield way to hunt and it gets results.
I say high risk for a few reasons, one is the country we were in, scrub bulls and crocs for a start, the second is loading the dog's up on boar after boar especially if those boars are meat eaters. The risk of dogs getting cut up and the potential for significant infection was high.
And the risk of treading on some of these boars was just as real. We didn't know where they'd be and they weren't the type of pigs to yield ground. Some were caught within metres of us in the long grass, just standing there...
However, the inherent dangers for dogs and hunters with this type of hunting also creates a testing ground for the younger dogs. You can't make a dog want to grab a nasty boar. They either want to do it or they don't. You find out very quickly with this type of hunting whether or not your young dogs have the heart for the trade.
The green dogs in this hunting team did the job. That was expected of course. It wasn't a random collection of dogs but a team of younger or inexperienced dogs bred for the job. It was a matter of putting the work in front of them to see how they would react. And this was an A grade way to do that.
The whole thing was well planned and well executed and a credit to Brett's research on the pigs that live along Secret Creek.
Pig stats for the trip: 28 pigs in total, only five sows, of the 23 remaining boars 16 were crackers.)
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« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2010, 01:25:12 am »

Sounds like fun Ned! Whats a cracker Huh?
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« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2010, 01:43:16 am »

A cracker is a top quality anything, in this case...boar. Means big, toothy and a fighter, not a runner. I'll get the pix up soon. I know it's late over there so I'll hurry up but I've still got two dogs to run...
Cheers.
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« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2010, 01:56:28 am »

OK. Dogs are loose so here's some pix of the boars caught off bulls (all except the daytime shot...he was at the beach). Other blokes are my son Paul and our mate Brett. I'll post some pix of the bulls we used for bait soon. Also not all the dogs in these pix are our family. Brett has a few from other breeders too.
Cheers.











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« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2010, 04:08:18 am »

Those are definately some nice boars and dogs Ned! Do you guys practice barring a hog down there?? Thanks for the explanation of a cracker
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« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2010, 04:47:28 am »

By barring do you mean cutting (ie castration)? If so, blokes still do it just to grow out big pigs in the bush for the sport of catching them without adding to the breeding population. It used to be about food. In our family's past, the system was to mark or cut little boars, ear mark them and let them go. The ear mark was so they could be indentified in the field as a good one to eat (better than rank boars...)
Cheers.
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« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2010, 05:41:30 am »

Yes that is exactly what I meant Ned! Here in Hawaii we call it Laho a'ole (nuts removed) and do it to cause the pigs to become fat and lazy. We mark the ear so when the hunter catches him again he is aware he is dealing with an experienced hog. I have also heard of a few guys doing to the sows but I have never figured how to go about that procedure just yet.
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« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2010, 01:44:26 pm »

WELCOME NED! LOOK FORWARD TO SEEIN MORE PICS AND HEARIN STORIES!
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« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2010, 02:50:56 pm »

what can you tell me about the dog in the third pic that's sitting with you Ned?  good lookin dog. 
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2010, 02:50:20 am »

Third pix from the start of the thread or third in the recent sequence?

I'll go for both. The third pix from the start of the thread is Betty, one of son Paul's crew. I bred her so she's the same family as all the other Makim dogs but threw less hairy and thicker than usual for us. She is getting on and is semi retired. Found and caught her first boar at 7months. Real good finder but Paul has a yardful of them so he used her as what he calls 'a smashing dog', a hard dog that will hit any pig full pace, almost gleeful about it. Betty is very masculine and not even AI has drawn pups from her. She's by Russell out of Cathy, two dogs from the old Butters line in Oz.

The third pix in the "bull boars'' sequence is Wolfy. He is owned by our mate Brett. He bred her from a full sister to Betty (different litter). He put a wolfhound cross he knew in his area over her and Wolfy is the result. I'd own him in a second and I will breed from him if we get the chance (Brett lives 1600kms...1000 miles from us and we meet up once a year  at a spot another 4000 or 5000kms from all of us for three weeks to a month in camp where the big crocs live...) Wolfy is calm, no fight or interest much in other dogs. Quiet on the truck but on the whiff of a pig (especially a rank boar) he becomes this robot dog, all business. Can find well and is genuinely tough. Lovely dog to have lying around the camp.

That's the both.
I might just say that we are all serious about our pig catching and our dogs so no one wants to muck around with dud dogs.  I'm saying that because I don't want to come across as though I am talking these dogs up. Betty and Wolfy are what we expect every dog we breed to be like. And we are not unique by any means in Australia. Heaps of good hard working dogs over here. I'm just talking about ours because that's what I know.
Cheers.
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2010, 05:00:20 am »

As promised  this is one of the bull photos. That's Paul and one of the scrub (wild, feral) bulls we shot to act as pig bait on our annual trip into the north. The bulls are genuinely wild and will beat up stud bulls, stockmen on horses and quads (cowboys) and pig hunters.
We only had a 308 so it got a bit hairy at times but all went well.




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Ned Makim
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2010, 05:39:55 am »

Here's another one with Brett and Paul. He was a big bull this one.

We also got to go with the bull catchers catching these bulls alive. That is the most dangerous thing I have ever seen. Lots of laughing and loud talk but deadly serious all the same. They chase them out of the scrub with helicopters, then chase them in modified 4WD until they get them at the right angle and bump them off balance. As the bull starts to fall one or two blokes from the cut down vehicle jump on the bull to hit him as he hits the deck on his side. Tailman will grab the bulls tail and pulls it between his legs and up over his flank and back around toward the back end. This keeps his top back leg from getting to the ground. Without that one movement he can't get up. Second bloke has a strap like a long belt and wraps it around the back legs a few times above the hock before buckling it tight. Same thing on the front legs. Then one bloke will go to the head from the back and tip the horns with a saw, just the tip, no blood but the bulls don't like it anyway. When theres a couple on the ground out of the mob gathered by the chopper, a little truck appears out of the bush with a lay down ramp leading up to a thick rubber flap that leads into the stock crate. They get one of the 4wds on one side of the truck and run a wire rope from the front of the 4wd through the truck, down the ramp and onto the bulls horns. The 4wd reverses and pulls the bull up the ramp. When the head is about to go in through the rubber flap, the men whip off the leg straps so the bull is loose. At that moment the 4wd reverse further and the bull slides into the stock crate on its side. The horns are tipped because when you get a couple of bulls on the truck they cab try to kill one another. I saw nine bulls on the truck when I was there. They caught 24 for the day.
The fight in a scrub bull and its willingness to engage is unreal. So is the absolute sense of power you get when you are close to a live one. It just looks like hatred in their eyes...  The bloke who ran the show (it was his 640,000 acres and catching bulls was most of their cattle income for the year) seemed relaxed about the whole process. I said this all looked like a serious business. He looked me in the eye and said  "it's deadly serious mate..."
Among bush people the fewer the words the bigger the message. I took him at his word and stayed on my toes.


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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2010, 09:05:30 am »

Here's another one with Brett and Paul. He was a big bull this one.

We also got to go with the bull catchers catching these bulls alive. That is the most dangerous thing I have ever seen. Lots of laughing and loud talk but deadly serious all the same. They chase them out of the scrub with helicopters, then chase them in modified 4WD until they get them at the right angle and bump them off balance. As the bull starts to fall one or two blokes from the cut down vehicle jump on the bull to hit him as he hits the deck on his side. Tailman will grab the bulls tail and pulls it between his legs and up over his flank and back around toward the back end. This keeps his top back leg from getting to the ground. Without that one movement he can't get up. Second bloke has a strap like a long belt and wraps it around the back legs a few times above the hock before buckling it tight. Same thing on the front legs. Then one bloke will go to the head from the back and tip the horns with a saw, just the tip, no blood but the bulls don't like it anyway. When theres a couple on the ground out of the mob gathered by the chopper, a little truck appears out of the bush with a lay down ramp leading up to a thick rubber flap that leads into the stock crate. They get one of the 4wds on one side of the truck and run a wire rope from the front of the 4wd through the truck, down the ramp and onto the bulls horns. The 4wd reverses and pulls the bull up the ramp. When the head is about to go in through the rubber flap, the men whip off the leg straps so the bull is loose. At that moment the 4wd reverse further and the bull slides into the stock crate on its side. The horns are tipped because when you get a couple of bulls on the truck they cab try to kill one another. I saw nine bulls on the truck when I was there. They caught 24 for the day.
The fight in a scrub bull and its willingness to engage is unreal. So is the absolute sense of power you get when you are close to a live one. It just looks like hatred in their eyes...  The bloke who ran the show (it was his 640,000 acres and catching bulls was most of their cattle income for the year) seemed relaxed about the whole process. I said this all looked like a serious business. He looked me in the eye and said  "it's deadly serious mate..."
Among bush people the fewer the words the bigger the message. I took him at his word and stayed on my toes.



Now that sounds pretty wild! i love to be in on that! We do some stuff similar to that but its off horses... That bailing off the trucks and hittin the bulls on foot and tyin em sounds pretty wild!  Grin You have any pics of that stuff? and by the way welcome to the board!
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2010, 10:00:57 am »

first of , welcome!
 
   man id love to get down there and catch some hogs and cattle one day in that bush country , its always been my dream to see australia. iread about catching cattle like that in the western horseman years ago . ned does nobody use bay dogs on cattle ? ive heard ya'll dont do any roping down under , is that true ?
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Ned Makim
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2010, 02:38:42 pm »

No roping, only in the rodeo ring. You would have to have a good man working with you because these things will gut a horse at the slightest provocation.
I have video of everything but I've had no luck with you tube etc...anyone got any suggestions??
Cheers.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 02:58:44 pm by Ned Makim » Logged
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