For discussion's sake: Antique Horse Tack

[aladatrot]

I made a little purchase this weekend of some bits that were removed from an old ghost town. The town started around the 1860's and if it is the town I have narrowed it down to, it was defunct by the late 1890's. IF these bits were from the falling down blacksmith shop where they were purported to be, I would guess they were from the mid to late 1800's. The one bit I was really interested in appears to have the rein attachment rings worn pretty good to the point that I'd say they were worn out. The other two bits look to be in perfect old condition and I really question their authenticity.

So here's a question for ya. With horses being the primary mode of transportation during the "cattle boom" of the late 1800's, why can't I find as many old west horse tack relics around? I understand that leather deteriorates, but the bits should still be around. Also, does anyone here collect old west memorabilia? How can you tell within reason whether a piece is authentic?

Cheers
M

[matt_aggie04]

They are out there but hard to located I think because those that have them like owning them and don't want to get rid of it.  I know a man with nearly 25-30 unbelievably pristine OLD saddles and western tack to go with em but all he does is buy, never sales any of it.  I get on ebay and look around now and then and you can find a few, I think there are even message boards for the old collectors.

[RockinW]

aladatrot, i trade and collect bits and spurs some, and  have a lot of friends that are serious collectors. i also  do some restoration and such on antique saddles and tack for collectors, (i'm a saddlemaker by trade) although i dont claim to be an expert on antiques, i have a fair amount of knowledge in both antique and contemporary bits, spurs, saddles etc.  i may be able to identify them  for you, and give you an  idea of what they might be worth, or  i will probably know someone that can. 

as for finding them, good luck. people have been scouring the country for them for a long time. and often when we do find something still "out in the country",  the owners  dont really know what its worth, so they ask irrational prices for it.  example: i found an old saddle last week that was worth maybe $800, the owner asked $3500.

and  DO YOUR HOMEWORK!  before spending much on "antiques."  theres lots of reproductions out there nowadays, and lots of people get skinned on them. 

send me some pics if you want and i'll try to help or maybe i can steer you in the right direction.

[aladatrot]

Rockin w, I can't copy/paste the photo. The eBay item number is 220629767661. I'm using my phone for the internet and I haven't figured out how to post links. The person who sold me the bits also gave me some history on them as well as the lady's name who owns the ranch the ghost town is located on. It is privately owned. I will post up good photos as soon as the bits arrive. I really was interested in the one with long shanks.

What is your initial thoughts on these?
Cheers
M

[aladatrot]

Matt, I happened upon this one on eBay and got all three bits for $15 something plus $5 shipping. I thought I got a deal, and the owner of the bits also retrieved them from the old blacksmith shop in the ghost town. They gave me the history of the ghost town as it was told to them, and are super excited that I care about the historical element of them.

They look neat to me but I have no idea about value or authenticity... I saw plenty of other old bits on eBay that didn't have a cool backstory for $125 and up.

Cheers
M

[RockinW]

alaldatrot, they looked like buermann's or anchor's (north & judd) to me, but i only got a quick look before the page was redirected as the bidding had ended. even though they were supposed to have been found in a blacksmith shop, they dont look blacksmith made to me. either way, they do look origional. my guess would be that they were made pre  1930's.

buermann began in the 1860's, anchor in th 1870's. north & judd (anchor), bought out buermann in 1926. not sure how long they stayed in buisiness, but probabaly into the 60's or longer. both companies were huge foundries back east ( new jersey and connecticut) and made those types of bits by the thousands, and sold them by the keg i am told. they not only made bits and spurs, but all kinds of various hardware.

as far as i could tell, they were all plain, (no silver) so they are not particularly valuable,  usually from $5-$50 each, but, how can you go wrong buying an interesting piece of history for $20 ?

look for a small star or anchor stamp on them when you get them.

[Circle C]

Rockinw,

   Here is some of the story on the bits, true or false, I don't guess we'll ever know, but the people sound sincere.

"The bits were found in a ghost town in Colorado, 12 miles north of Masonville. There once was a hotel, blacksmith shop, and 5 log cabins near an old abandoned gold mine. The bits were found in the blacksmith shop falling down. We do not recall name of ghost town but it was founded approx in 1868."

"A lot of old ghosttowns were never recorded way back, but the ghosttown is now on a ranch that is privately owned east of Buckhorn Canyon outside of Lory State Park in Larimer County. We are trying to locate the lady's name that owns the ranch (can't remember but her first name was *****). We have a call in to someone who can remember better from when we owned a ranch located below her ranch in 1991. The story was that it was settled by prospectors in 1868, then it was abandoned after the goldrush. Three families moved to the town after it was abandoned and discovered gold perhaps a hundred yards out of town. The men of the three families worked the mine while the women grew gardens for their food, the mine played out and flooded with water. They then abandoned the town. In 1991 you could still see the top of the hole of their mine. The owners of the ranch made a stock pond for watering cattle. In the summer you could still see better than half of the entrance of the mine. The three families hauled their gold ore to Masonville, CO where there was a stamp mill...12 miles away from the mine. If I find out more info I will let you know."


In a later message, the lady said she did find out the woman's full name and provided it, and  said that the  ghosttown was called Happy Hollow.

[RockinW]

thats a cool story. try to get copies of all the info you can, names, dates, location etc.  its a shame when the history gets lost.

[Circle C]

its a shame when the history gets lost.

Funny you should mention that, as Mandi and I were just discussing this topic at lunch.

We have some interesting items at the house, that without the history behind them would not mean much.

One item is a silver and crystal pickle jar that was a wedding gift to my great grandmother in the late 1800's. Without the history behind it, it's just another antique.

 Then we also have a copy of my great great great uncles first pay stub from when he was in the Texas Rangers, it shows where they deducted his pay for a winchester rifle and scabbard.


In this photo, he is the one standing in the rear without a rifle. Seems that when they were hired on, they had to wait until there were enough orders for rifles to place the order with Winchester. In the meantime, they just had a pistol. At least that is the story I was told.



 Also have some ledger cards from when he retired to the Paint Rock area and was sheriff, then retired and opened a general store.

   Aside from those 19th century items, I also collect items from my great grandfather's old company, Brown Oil Tool.  BOT saddle, BOT Case knives, BOT Zippo lighters, etc.  Pretty much junk to anyone else, but they have some value to me, as they are part of my family history.

[aladatrot]

Rockinw,

Funny how most real collectors was all the intricate silver inlays, and I'm looking for plain old horse bits like the old outlaws and the regular working joes would have used. Do you have any photos of your collection? Is your own personal preference leaning toward the silver or the plain? How about you, Matt?

Furthermore (Rockinw), in having an interest in old tack do you find yourself incorporating the old styles into your present day work?

Cheers
M

[Russ]

Head over to Cascity.com and they're forums have some folks that post period pics. Its a big Cowboy Action Shooting site and the NCOWS forum has a guy that posts regularly pics he finds

[RockinW]

circle  c,  thats some cool stuff. i have a copy of the minutes from a meeting of the "anti horsetheif associaton" that my great grandpa was a member of. worthless  trash to most, priceless to me.

we had some neighbors who had a few really nice old bits and spurs, a buffalo rifle, some prison made hitched horsehair stuff, and some amazing indian artifacts. all of it had been from their families or given to them. it wasnt a lot of stuff, but all of it was great stuff, and  they knew every detail of the history.

we asked if they would sell any of it and of course they said they wanted it to stay in the family. i told them if they ever changed their mind, i would give them what it was worth, (even if i had to take out a second morgage) and would want all the history wrote down, and would keep it and display it.


i ran into one of their kids sometime after they had passed away, told her of them showing us that stuff, asked if she would ever part with it, she said she wasnt sure what we were talkin about, but  a friend of hers said she had got rid of a bunch of "junk" after the funeral.
 i have never found out what happened to it.

aladatrot,  i have an assortment of junk, a few nice contemporary handmade bits and spurs, and other odds and ends. at one time i had a modest collection of contemporary spurs, by makers such as pollard, jayson jones, pat vaugn, kevin burns, etc. but have traded off or sold most of them. i got most of them as trade ins on saddles and tack that i had made. they didnt really have sentimental value to me and i realized i was about to go broke getting paid for stuff with stuff and not money. lol.  i have to admit liking fancy stuff, but if it has a good story, or sentimental value, it makes no difference whether its plain or fancy.  i have a friend that is a BIG TIME bit and spur trader. he has owned thousands of handmade contemporary bits and spurs, and thousands of antiques. some super high dollar stuff. he may have hundreds at any given time for sale or trade. all he collects and keeps himself is the plain stuff that is either unique or has unique history.

and yes, i do take a lot from the old stuff  when making things.