Another assessment of catch dog style....

[raider54]

raider54 you are referring to me and i take no disrespect to your statement as i have hog hunt long enough to know that just because i see it doesn't mean that we will catch it...i'm not that naive. you obviously didn't read the sentences previous to that...i stated that the dogs hauled butt down the road and never FOUND a hog. i'm sorry maybe i'm expecting to much of my dogs, but if i see a hog my dogs should be able to wind the hog and at least run the track to that hog. the hog may break and run and my dogs may not be able to stop it i understand that...so when you go on a traing hunt with some of your well started dogs..say the hog is like i said 30yds from the truck, do you keep the dogs that can straight to that hog and get to baying or do you keep the ones that are running 100yds down the road "searching" for a hog? i think we would all keep those dogs that went straight to the hog and went to hammering away...again i didn't say to catch that hog i said the dog never found the hog nor tracked the hog...THAT is what i said...

I understand what you are saying! Point taken, but in that scenario, it is possible they may not strike the hog! I have seen on many ocassions a coon cross the road you stop turn the dogs out and they never strike it! Im talking about FINISHED dogs! I dont know why? its just happens sometimes. But you are right, what do you keep? You keep the ones that are doing the best. There are so many opinions among hunters on this site, that other catch dog opinion thread has just gotten so rediculous. I just cant read it anymore. I believe in culling dogs but honestly if we followed some of the standards some claim here dogs would be on the endangered species list.

[duece24]

you make great points...on the other thread he just asked two questions and most only deal with the first..no one really responded to his second question..no one really flat out stated if his standards were below most people or equal...i know you have recently been in a similar situation so you have first hand knowledge...

as far as the culling part to each his own, but the only way to get top notch locked in traits is to cull hard. the pit bull is what it is today because they culled VERY hard. any bad signs at any age and they were culled, it was just that simple. when i say they culled hard, i personally know of people that had to cull a dog then go and cull half his yard because he based his yard on this dog. when the dog quit he had to take his breeding in a new direction he didn't want any quitters in his line..THAT is the only way to truly have top notch dogs...not everyone is willing to do that, i understand that. but like i said the pit bull is what it is today because people culled dogs hard because they new it was for the betterment of the breed...i was schooled in breeding by the older timers in the pit bull world so when it comes to culling i was taught to cull hard...VERY hard...hunting dogs is a little different so my opinions aren't always supported..lol..

[BarrNinja]

One thing I have noticed over the years with "catch dogs" in general is more hog hunters actually "trying" to breed catch dog.
Quite a few are trying to breed better ones.  
Nobody I knew of 20 years was breeding dogs for the sole purpose of catching hogs much less trying to breed better ones! Im sure there were a few out there but not many and I sure didn’t know of them.
All the focus was on good hog dogs. Curs mostly with a few cur/hound crosses.  Bulldogs were literally a dime a dozen 20 years ago. Hell! They still wonder up in my yard!

If a bull would just catch a hog 25 years ago he was a keeper as long as it didn’t try to catch your horse or one of your kids. A good catch dog, meeting any of the standards being debated on this board, were pretty dang rare 20 - 25 years ago in my opinion!
Kudos to the catch dog breeders and I mean it!

Now since yall are breeding better catch dogs these days I,ll take one with a dash of brains please! I got money and kids for trade!

Nothing but "good" comes out of these “catch dog” debates as fair as I’m concerned! No matter what your opinion is, everybody is thinking about catch dogs standards. Even me!

[duece24]

i love sports as you can tell with most of my analogies..lol...but this game is like football...20-25yrs ago there were only a couple of kids coming out of high school running a 4.3 -4.4 40yd dash. now a days each state is loaded with them..the game changes and anty is upped. the hogs get smarter, faster, and rougher. so the catchdog/baydog has to evolve with the hogs...

[uglydog]

Now everybody think about everybody else perception and definitions here.

You all can think you are on the same page sitting behind a keyboard, but when you see the same dog in action you might all think yall were talking about alot different dogs.

I have watched these links videos and seen other peoples dogs work and come away with a totally different opinions, as I am sure that  my Smoochy walks on water, and the rest of you may think I would be better off with one of those poodles. I like what I like, and you don't have to feed it, vice-versa

in the end who cares what everybody else feeds and brags about on the internet, as long as you are doing right, not harming anybody else, and can look yourself in the mirror.

I was asked by someone today, since I am one that advocates a thinking dog, what I thought about some of these discussion about catch dogs as of recent. thinking about some of the events from the past two years, if I don't know a dog or its background, and someone tells me its caught hundreds of hogs, instead of taking the word on it, I am gonna ask a few more detailed questions. One being are you counting the fetus' in the sows belly? How many of those hogs were over two hundred pounds? how many dogs were also caught on the hog? How many hogs has the dog caught all by itself without any help, over 150lbs, and did you see it hit the hog, or when you got to there hog your dog was hanging off it?
Big difference to me these days when some one tells me the dog hits/catch hard, ect, ect, ect, I almost need to see it to believe it, cause too mjany times my definitions of  caught hard and the next guys are two totally different things . Think About It

[uglydog]

Almost forgot - "Don't call it a catchdog until you have seen it ride"

[cantexduck]

I agree with ugly dog. Good post .

[make-em-squeel]

A few points: 1. good post ugly dog, 2. For deusc24's... if you see a hog and the dogs dont bay it up...not often but happens what do you think about when a bay breaks and the hog puts the slip on them never to get bayed again?? cant get a hotter track than that and it happens to everyone sometimes.

3. A smart cd that wont drown in water to stay caught or stay caught in hot weather for an hour while you get there if the bay breaks...does not mean it isnt HARD! A small dose of self preservation in a hard bulldog is Great to have

4. In 4 yrs of using catch dogs the first 2.5 i only had/used hard core short big headed pits, manuevering for a clean catch and then holding clean or not fighting a hog was not in there vocabularly. The past yr and a half i have been behind some quality AB's and Dogos (not saying a pit cant do it I just never owned one) that side step grab the ear and then get body to body with the hog and relax down on thier elbows, they rarely get cut and even though they wont drown under water or wont heat stroke out there is no question that you can leg any hog behind them and will not let go when your about to get there, even though they may fall out after the hog quits moving due to exhaustion from the heat etc. So I am saying i had the til death attitude until recently that i have seen a touch of sence (not to much) my experience has made me wiser  And i listen to guys like Silverton Boar dogs, that would due us all some good 

[Purebreedcolt]

A lot of people would cull my ridgeback he don't run in and catch he runs in and when the opertunity arises or the pig tries to run he catches and is on for good.  I don't mind that and even like that I don't like stitching up dogs lol know it happens but dtill don't like it when it is my dog

[Scott]

These threads just keep going round and round...bottom line...feed what you like. It is evident that folks have different standards...some more rigid than others. As long as you can live with your standards that's all that matters.

[River Ridge]

I also prefer brains in my bulldogs, and they seem to have it in the woods. The only problem is that I honestly couldnt tell you the last time that I saw a bay that i turned my CD on.  If the hogs around here see us or hear us they head for TX. I would like to see how my dogs approach a bay, because I would like to be as careful as possible.

[chainrated]

I love a smart dog. I have always said a smart cur dog will bay you a lot of hogs. I like a smart bulldog also and have had the pleasure of owning and hunting with some my buddy's have owned that were as smart as they come in my opinion. They would listen like a kid, never have any problem with dog or human agression, sit back and be calm after they were broke off the hog and the hog was tied. And even ride the 4-wheeler right beside a caught hog and not act stupid. And yet I have never seen one of them quit a hog or bay. Once a bulldog bays he's no longer a catchdog to me.
It would be nice to be able to send your catchdog in to and ideal bay in the open everytime but it's just not possible. Noah I completely understand about busting the hog out and getting him in a better place to catch if that's what you wanna do. But around here  you would only get to catch a hog about 1 out of a hundred trips because if you bust him out of the briar patch or thicket he's bayed in he's not gonna stop till he gets to the next one, if he ever stops again at all, which is highly unlikely most of the time. A lot of times you only get one shot at a hog and you better have a dog that you can depend on to catch when he gets there. I don't have a problem with how anybody wants to hunt or what they want to feed and if it works for you that's all that matters. It's just that around here you won't catch many hogs if you have a bulldog that bays or if you started busting hogs and waiting till he got to an ideal spot to send your catchdog. Trust me if it was I would never send another bulldog in to a briar patch or thicket or a deep creek. 
And really I mean how smart could any dog be that will catch something that weighs 5 times more and has knives hanging out of it's mouth? Anything that will do that has got be pretty stupid .

[raider54]

Chainrated, you bring up a great point, we dont have palmetto groves here in north tx, We have alot of people come to hunt with us from south or west Tx. It seems all of them want to walk in with thier catch dog close enought to see the bay and that just doesnt work here. You will blow out 90% of the bays if you even try. We cut our CD's loose before the hog gets a chance to see or hear us comming

[NThoghunter]

Well I guess I am fortunate to have 2 of the best and smartest cd's around.  When Pedro and Chief hear a bay they set up a job briefing and risk assessment.  Hell I have even seen them dig a tunnel to a boar bayed in a washout, just to sneak up from behind!  I love my wonder dogs!

[Mike]

Well I guess I am fortunate to have 2 of the best and smartest cd's around.  When Pedro and Chief hear a bay they set up a job briefing and risk assessment.  Hell I have even seen them dig a tunnel to a boar bayed in a washout, just to sneak up from behind!  I love my wonder dogs!

 ... put me down for two pups.

[chainrated]

Well I guess I am fortunate to have 2 of the best and smartest cd's around.  When Pedro and Chief hear a bay they set up a job briefing and risk assessment.  Hell I have even seen them dig a tunnel to a boar bayed in a washout, just to sneak up from behind!  I love my wonder dogs!

   
I'd never take them dogs hunting again. I'd cut thier hair , give them a bath and send them to work..

[chainrated]

It seems all of them want to walk in with thier catch dog close enought to see the bay and that just doesnt work here. You will blow out 90% of the bays if you even try. We cut our CD's loose before the hog gets a chance to see or hear us comming

Around here walking in close enough to see a bay is not even a thought. If you got that close you might as well be ready to piggy back the hog because you would be right on top of him.  Every now and then you will get lucky and get to see a bay..

[BarrNinja]

Well I guess I am fortunate to have 2 of the best and smartest cd's around.  When Pedro and Chief hear a bay they set up a job briefing and risk assessment.  Hell I have even seen them dig a tunnel to a boar bayed in a washout, just to sneak up from behind!  I love my wonder dogs!

  If they are efficient in Microsoft Office programming (primarily Word and Excel) I want to hire them right now!!!!

[NThoghunter]

Sorry guys, they have a full load of work right now.  Cleaning kennels, watering, feeding, etc...  Earning their keep