Another assessment of catch dog style....

[Noah]

So... most of the experienced hunters I deal with prefer a catch dog with a bit of brains...

The "camacazi" style is fun to watch,  but misses often and usually gets a good face shot in the process....

Add just a touch of "sense"... and that dog suddenly thinks about the best angle to properly hit a hog, minimizing personal risk, and optomizing grip placement for best control of hog... 

Who wouldn't want that??

Why would I want a dog with the mindset to run hisself into a brick wall... over and over again... "just because he's bred to do it"??

Sure he's tough, sure he'll die right there tryin'... but does it really help me catch more hogs?   No.

Dogs like this get their teeth knocked out, cut to pieces, and just generally don't last too long...

I'll take a catch dog that has the ability to learn...."think" .... and "listen" when instructed.  Doesn't mean they're any less hard... just with a little added intelligence...

To each his own,  but that's what I appreciate... along with most other dog men I know with way more experience than myself....

[hoghunterdfw]

  Amen to that! Preach it loud brother!

[roughdog]

well as long as they catch its all good lol

[duece24]

i'm still learning(i do have my likes and dislikes and i do have my opionions), but when you say kamikazi style do you mean grab the hog anywhere?

i personally don't need a dog to roll a hog when they catch. i actually like a dog that kinda lopes in and about 1-2 steps out loads it's hips and punches the hog(kinda like tackling..if you just run up out of control you normally miss...but if you come in under control and load at the right time you make a good solid tackle). long as the catchdog hits the head of the hog i'm good. i prefer ear, but i've seen a snout cd that basically shuts off air through the nose of the hog by burying it in the ground and their biting strength.

if a hog breaks as the cd is comin in i definantly like for that cd to hit another gear and grab an ear to shut it down...although if the hog breaks bay i really would like for my baydogs to hit that ass end to make that joker spin enough to let that cd get there and get to the ear...

[Noah]

To continue with the NFL theme...

What's the best hit you ever remember seeing?  Was it a ball carrier trying to avoid an oncoming defensive player?....

OR, was it a ball carrier that was "completely blindsided" by a suprise tackle??

When a hog sees a CD coming in on him hard and heavy, he's gonna be prepaired for that hit... a dog with the sense to loop and come in from behind is much more effective statistically.

This dogo I've been working with is straight, head on, "K"amikazi.... sure is fun to watch him steam roll a hog.... always seems to hit a hog skull to skull....makes a hell of a "crack"  ....but I fear he's gonna lose his teeth if he doesn't get a little smarter....

[ETHHunters]

I could understand where your coming from more if you were talking about one out dogs. I expect my baydogs to hold the hogs attention. Its not a one on one thing. I know with our baydogs most of them are not rough but they hit most hogs about the same time as a catchdog. Plus where we hunt there is not much line of sight. Its so thick all the dogs and hogs are in close quarters.

[duece24]

if you know you dog will make a b-line to the hog, is it possible to ease up to the hog from the side so as to help the cd out?

[Scott]

I could care less how the dog gets to the hog, we don't catch too many out in the open anyway...seems to always be in the thick stuff. Their job is to catch and stay caught until removed. The essence of a bull breed (AB, APBT, Dogo, etc.) is heart....quitting or backing off and baying is not an option and unacceptable in a bulldog. The dog doesn't have to be a kamakazi style dog to be a bulldog...it just has to have heart!



I do have a question about those catchdogs you described with sense...what do they do when the hog is bayed up in a washout or blown over tree when they have to go through the hogs wheelhouse to get him caught?

[raider54]

So... most of the experienced hunters I deal with prefer a catch dog with a bit of brains...

The "camacazi" style is fun to watch,  but misses often and usually gets a good face shot in the process....

Add just a touch of "sense"... and that dog suddenly thinks about the best angle to properly hit a hog, minimizing personal risk, and optomizing grip placement for best control of hog...  

Who wouldn't want that??

Why would I want a dog with the mindset to run hisself into a brick wall... over and over again... "just because he's bred to do it"??

Sure he's tough, sure he'll die right there tryin'... but does it really help me catch more hogs?   No.

Dogs like this get their teeth knocked out, cut to pieces, and just generally don't last too long...

I'll take a catch dog that has the ability to learn...."think" .... and "listen" when instructed.  Doesn't mean they're any less hard... just with a little added intelligence...

To each his own,  but that's what I appreciate... along with most other dog men I know with way more experience than myself....

Noah, I couldnt agree with you more! BUT!!!! I believe you are asking for the Hoards to turn Thier catch dogs loose on you for making statements like this.....lol I have good friends that pride themselves in having a catch dog that will hit a hog on a dead run! I have a friend that tells the same story every time he has a new audience, that story is, his pit gyp was the best CD ever! Because!!! get a load of this, she went out in a tank and drowned locked on a big hog, but she never let go!!! this is his finest hog hunting accomplishment. I have watched this dog catch dozens of hogs, she hit them like a freight train, the first time, the second time, and sometimes she actualy caught them on the third try!!! but once she did get hold of them, she wasnt coming off! and once you and your friends finally got her loose it took the whole crew to drag her all the way back to the truck, the entire time she was trying to get loose so she could go back and eat the hog......This was the best catch dog HE! ever saw......NO THANKS!!!

[Noah]

I do have a question about those catchdogs you described with sense...what do they do when the hog is bayed up in a washout or blown over tree when they have to go through the hogs wheelhouse to get him caught?

Good question, unfortunately, those "sensible" CD's will usually try that head on shot if it's the only one available.... it's my job as a handler to not force them to make that decision... i.e. bumping the hog out to a more desireable catch location...

[Scott]

10-4 Noah.

Just another quick point...just because the dog has no reverse or quit to 'em, doesn't mean it doesn't have handle.

[BarrNinja]

Amen to that! Preach it loud brother!

Ha ha! I’m going to sign up for the Choir!

[Noah]

if you know you dog will make a b-line to the hog, is it possible to ease up to the hog from the side so as to help the cd out?

Absolutely, work with what you got, as smartly as you can!

Not sayin' I haven't been around some jam-up Kamikazi CD's... because I have... and they done good.  Just have to be way more careful with them...

I remember getting several knocked out cold before I figured out why "not" to turn that type of dog in head on...

[Noah]

10-4 Noah.

Just another quick point...just because the dog has no reverse or quit to 'em, doesn't mean it doesn't have handle.

I completely agree!

[HIGHWATER KENNELS]

Noah, I am like you i would rather that cd to tip toe in there and get the job done ..My buddy has a gyp that does just that, kind of like a cat, but I tell you what boys I will leg a elephant that she is caught on and I aint seen her get shook off yet cuz it aint no guessin where she will be, she knows where she is going to catch at and she takes the right way to get there...

[raider54]

Noah, I am a dog guy. I dont care if its a rabbit, coon, squriel, or hog dog. I have owned them all at one time or another. I was a very serious coon hunter several years back and had the wins in the big hunts to prove I was a competative handler. After I read your last post I realize you are one of those rare "DOG MEN" You approach each situation with a strategy. I used to spend every weekend of my life competing against guys like you. I found out in those days I could have the best dog in the hunt and get smashed by a lesser dog with a great handler! I think with alot of hog hunters its ALL about catching the hog and not necessarily about the hunt. I just read a post on the Catch  Dog thread going around right now. One member asked another "If they see a hog on the side of the road, stop and cut thier dogs loose on it" he says if they do not bay that hog they should be considered CULLS!  I mean no disrespect to that ETHD member but! just because you Physically SEE a hog does not necessarily mean you are going to catch it! there are so many factors involved and I wont even get into them. I believe most here employ strategy to some point, I mean we all know to hunt into the wind (I think). but how far do we all take that strategy? Only a real Dog man would think to bump a bay to offer better situation for the Pack or the CD. I believe most would just send in thier "Bullet Proof and expendable CD" because "THATS HIS JOB"

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

I agree Noah, I like a dog that drops low and side steps the charge and hits the ear with out all the impact. The dog has got to be able to spread its front legs and elbows wide and get its elbows down near the ground and come up for the ear. Long neck helps quit a bit (my Dogo has a 7" neck). I do not want any hesitation, I just want the dog to adjust its body to give it the best cleanest line to the ear and miss the head to head impact if possible.

 I do believe that a tight  full cut vest does impede the maneuverability of some catch dogs. It might not let them do much more than run straight in and hit. Do y'all think that is true or not?

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

raider 54, great post

[Scott]

Anyone that thinks their dog is bullet proof has to be from a different planet. Anyone that considers a catchdog expendable doesn't have a clue and I have zero respect for those types.

Silverton, I'm with you on the vests...you've got to find the right one for the individual dog.

[duece24]

raider54 you are referring to me and i take no disrespect to your statement as i have hog hunt long enough to know that just because i see it doesn't mean that we will catch it...i'm not that naive. you obviously didn't read the sentences previous to that...i stated that the dogs hauled butt down the road and never FOUND a hog. i'm sorry maybe i'm expecting to much of my dogs, but if i see a hog my dogs should be able to wind the hog and at least run the track to that hog. the hog may break and run and my dogs may not be able to stop it i understand that...so when you go on a traing hunt with some of your well started dogs..say the hog is like i said 30yds from the truck, do you keep the dogs that can straight to that hog and get to baying or do you keep the ones that are running 100yds down the road "searching" for a hog? i think we would all keep those dogs that went straight to the hog and went to hammering away...again i didn't say to catch that hog i said the dog never found the hog nor tracked the hog...THAT is what i said...

and yes i am one of those people that will try to manuever my cd or the bay so that it is easier for the cd to get there. to me depending on the type of cd you have depends on how you release them to the bay. if it is an older experienced cd that does as we all said we like then i don't mind releasing further out as i know this dog will take the right track to catch the hog. if i have a younger cd or a bline cd i want to see the bay then move the cd into a position to where they can be successful in catching the hog...