Shut em down!

[Hog Dog Mike]

I am going to go with roughdog on this one. Marquez, Tx. is the area I hunt all the time and we probably know some of the same hunters.

The hogs in this area have been run so much that you will be chasing them next week if you do not get them shut down.  You are not going to get them all shut down either. If they hear a car door slam they head out of the country.

My last hunt we got three. Two of the long range dogs were off to the races and had run completely off the ranch, across hwy 79, and God knows where. They finally got them rounded up but it took a long time.

It seems to me that the hogs are getting worse about running as time goes along.

[make-em-squeel]

My opinion is that you read about these breedings alot more often this time of yr b/c everyone gets out run more in the summer..PERIOD! EX: Sounders in the corn scatter the dogs and they are harder to stop in the dence vegetation, harder to track, etc. etc. So in come the guys who want dogs geared to hunting summer crops effeciantly, or guys who dont have the patiance/hunting experience to know the seasonal ropes...ie in come the catdo, pit/cur whatever topics and dogs. I wish i had the chain space and time to hunt enough to really care that much 

And I am not saying this is always true... but i have notied on this forum through the past a lot of guys want to run a pack of pits to catch everything etc...they are mostly young guys who havent been around much or hunted behind good curs.

[daisydog]

why when having a disscussion about an intresting topic. one that may or may not ever becompletely understood, does one individual have to make it personal.its almost like small man syndrome. or whos@#$!@# is bigger. i think a couple of the comments made on here were idiodic. im even wondering if at 65mph does he even slow down or do these rough "curs" just fly to the pigs and surprise them from above with an arial attack. i got some good laughs reading this and picturing nepolian leading a pack of super dogs (red capes,and a big "S" on there chest ) down the highway with total hog anialation on the brain. can i get a witness

[Txhoghunter]

Thanks for the input guys...I can see some of you still dont understand what Im getting at....

[cward]

I understand what you were saying and think it was a respectful question!!But is it a question that can be answered well I'm not real sure!!Would I run rough dogs no have I yes!!Hunt with some guy's who still do! I own my on place and those dog our not allowed on it!!If I get a rally than I sure want to watch them dogs work'em not bust'em!! I run loose dogs and catch lots of runners!!Like Bryant  said bottom he is correct!! I am a loose cur man!!But if someone wants to hunt rough dogs then that is there choice if I do not agree with it then I just don't hunt with them on my place's!!!
But with me running behind ruff pit cross's I have seen them tear a hogs ass off one day and the hog never fight just pull loose and never stop!! I have seen another group that did get out run in a thicket!! Seen loose dogs get out run!! But you really don't know if the hog would have stopped with loose bay dogs or rough dogs unless you ask the hog!!
In 2000 I had a hog called number 6 that is how many times it took me to catch him!! one bark the race was on!!
He laid in the wrong spot one day were he had aways to get to another section of woods he bayed like a champ with the same dogs he out ran 5 times!! Who knows!! Good question though!!

[cward]

That might be the word for casterated dog!Foul
Like
Barr
Steer
Gelding!!

I can't knock the spelling I can't spell for crap!!

[raider54]

WELL WHEN YOU GOT A DOG THAT GRABS THEM NUTS WHEN HES ON THE RUN AND MAKES HIM SIT DOWN AND FIGHT THEN THE DOG STOPED THE HOG

A dog cant keep up with a hog in the thickette, or heavy brush so therefore he cant Grab Them Nuts as you put it! So the only way for him to do that is if the hog stops on his own and the dog catches back up to it, and as Michael says alot of dogs dont have the bottom to stay with one that long.

[raider54]

How many times do "rough" bay dogs cause a hog to run that otherwise would have stayed put?

In my opinion its more than some people want to admit.  Some times it takes 10 years for guys to see the've been in denial about this subject all allong.  Some will always swear by rough dogs no matter what.  Its easy to get sucked into the "rough" dog frame of mind when you hop on the internet as a bigginner and start reading things that should be taken with a grain of salt.   I've seen it time and time again. I've hunted with all kinds of dogs since I was a kid.  And I see the same thing in cow dogs as well.  Some rough dogs will make more livestock run, so they do more harm than good in those cases.

There are dogs that will be hard on a hog that runs and pretty much convince the hog its better for them to stand at bay than it is to run.  THAT is the ideal that rough dogs are based upon.  But its not just that simple.  The second part to that equation is backing off when the hog actually does stand at bay.  And thats were most "rough" dogs ive seen fall short.  They stay rough and the hog starts off running all over again.  Then you have that "rough dog" that will "catch anything under 200 lbs".  OK thats all fine and dandy but the first time I see that dog catch a 60lb shoat out of a group of hogs thats standing at bay will be the last time I care to hunt with that dog again.  Just my 2 cents.  

In my opinion it takes a well bred dog that comes from a livestock background and a good bit of luck to consistantly produce dogs that can pull off the "rough dog" thing and do it the right way.  There is a whole lot more to it than "just add a little of this and a little of that to put some gritt in there"  It may work for some people but it don't work for me.

Waylon

Good Post

[raider54]

Here's an idea...

Instead of trying to breed those rough, catchy, super dogs to stop all those runners why not breed some dogs with a little bottom to stay with one.  Lack of bottom is what has educated all these "supposed" runners in the first place...

X3

[djhogdogger]

Ok, now I know this is going to be about a 5 page topic and get heated. But, I just have to ask because I don't understand.  I was reading along on another thread talking about crossing a pit with a cur.  While I want no part of a dog that's too rough to be a strike dog and might cur out on a big hog, that's beside the point.  When reading this I see folks saying things like, "breed them, they'll be rough enough to shut down a runner"  I see this ALL the time on here.  I DON'T GET IT.  First off, when those hogs that run a lot take off, I havent seen a whole lot of dogs that can hang with one in the brush to be able to "pull some hair", or "put some teeth on them".  Those of you that hunt rough dogs, how do you know your dogs are shutting down the hog and he's not just stopping when he wants to?  Are you catching every hog you start? Do they often stop them in the wide open? That would make sense if they did, because that would be the best chance they would have to run one down to make a hog spin and fight, right?

 After re-reading the original question, I have to first say that i think that most pit x cur dogs would be strictly catch dogs without a lot of bottom. However this is an assumption because i don't own any of these crosses. We do however own a rough cur. He is rough and will put teeth on a hog. If it is a small hog he will grab it by the ear. If it is a big hog he will bay it. He also has lots of bottom and will stick with a hog until he  stops it or until we cut him off because he got to close to the boarder of our hunting property, unless he gets too hot and then he will break off of it. One time he was on a large boar and it was a runner, we didn't get a chance to cut him off and he stuck with it for 5 miles. We had to make some phone calls to go and get him off of another property and when we got there, he was still with the boar. Both of them were wore out but he had him by the ear. The whole chase was thru the thicket. So whetther the hog stops or he wears it out, this rough dog does stop hogs and that is why we feed and hunt him. Does this help any?

[ETHHunters]

Ok, now I know this is going to be about a 5 page topic and get heated. But, I just have to ask because I don't understand.  I was reading along on another thread talking about crossing a pit with a cur.  While I want no part of a dog that's too rough to be a strike dog and might cur out on a big hog, that's beside the point.  When reading this I see folks saying things like, "breed them, they'll be rough enough to shut down a runner"  I see this ALL the time on here.  I DON'T GET IT.  First off, when those hogs that run a lot take off, I havent seen a whole lot of dogs that can hang with one in the brush to be able to "pull some hair", or "put some teeth on them".  Those of you that hunt rough dogs, how do you know your dogs are shutting down the hog and he's not just stopping when he wants to?  Are you catching every hog you start? Do they often stop them in the wide open? That would make sense if they did, because that would be the best chance they would have to run one down to make a hog spin and fight, right?

 After re-reading the original question, I have to first say that i think that most pit x cur dogs would be strictly catch dogs without a lot of bottom. However this is an assumption because i don't own any of these crosses. We do however own a rough cur. He is rough and will put teeth on a hog. If it is a small hog he will grab it by the ear. If it is a big hog he will bay it. He also has lots of bottom and will stick with a hog until he  stops it or until we cut him off because he got to close to the boarder of our hunting property, unless he gets too hot and then he will break off of it. One time he was on a large boar and it was a runner, we didn't get a chance to cut him off and he stuck with it for 5 miles. We had to make some phone calls to go and get him off of another property and when we got there, he was still with the boar. Both of them were wore out but he had him by the ear. The whole chase was thru the thicket. So whetther the hog stops or he wears it out, this rough dog does stop hogs and that is why we feed and hunt him. Does this help any?

Sounds like you caught that hog because of the dogs bottom not his roughness.

[chainrated]

I've said for a long time and made a post on here just a few days ago about this topic that A lot of people THINK their dogs are "stopping" hogs when in reality most of the time the hog just decided to stop and fight.. A good way to get your feelings hurt is to take your rough stop dogs to a thick 100 to 300 acre pen with one or 2 hogs in it that run. You will learn a lot about your dogs and hogs.. A guy not far from me has a 300 acre pen with 2 marathon runnin hogs in it that he used to let people run their dogs in. I can't tell you how many people came over there with a dog they said would shut them runnin @$#%&%$#@ down and after about 2 hours swore up and down the hogs must have gotten out of his pen because there was no way Ol Blue or Ol red or Ol killer would not have already caught a hog if there was any there.. He would then go get his yard dog off the porch and turn him loose in the pen and in 5 minutes he would have the hogs up and runnin and they were still runnin after them guys loaded ol so and so back up and headed home..
A lot of people just want to think their dogs are out there "running down" and "shuttin down" and "stoppin" hogs and there is nothin wrong with that, I've been guilty of saying it a few times myself  . But in REALITY  you can take the roughest, toughest, fastest, hog hatin dog that ever was born and throw him in one of these 100 acre cutovers or briar patches around here and he will look like an idiot on a hog that does not DECIDE to stop..

[djhogdogger]

Ok, now I know this is going to be about a 5 page topic and get heated. But, I just have to ask because I don't understand.  I was reading along on another thread talking about crossing a pit with a cur.  While I want no part of a dog that's too rough to be a strike dog and might cur out on a big hog, that's beside the point.  When reading this I see folks saying things like, "breed them, they'll be rough enough to shut down a runner"  I see this ALL the time on here.  I DON'T GET IT.  First off, when those hogs that run a lot take off, I havent seen a whole lot of dogs that can hang with one in the brush to be able to "pull some hair", or "put some teeth on them".  Those of you that hunt rough dogs, how do you know your dogs are shutting down the hog and he's not just stopping when he wants to?  Are you catching every hog you start? Do they often stop them in the wide open? That would make sense if they did, because that would be the best chance they would have to run one down to make a hog spin and fight, right?

 After re-reading the original question, I have to first say that i think that most pit x cur dogs would be strictly catch dogs without a lot of bottom. However this is an assumption because i don't own any of these crosses. We do however own a rough cur. He is rough and will put teeth on a hog. If it is a small hog he will grab it by the ear. If it is a big hog he will bay it. He also has lots of bottom and will stick with a hog until he  stops it or until we cut him off because he got to close to the boarder of our hunting property, unless he gets too hot and then he will break off of it. One time he was on a large boar and it was a runner, we didn't get a chance to cut him off and he stuck with it for 5 miles. We had to make some phone calls to go and get him off of another property and when we got there, he was still with the boar. Both of them were wore out but he had him by the ear. The whole chase was thru the thicket. So whetther the hog stops or he wears it out, this rough dog does stop hogs and that is why we feed and hunt him. Does this help any?

Sounds like you caught that hog because of the dogs bottom not his roughness.

Either way, he produces hogs and Im not going to cull him just because he is rough. I don;t think that he gets hogs because he is rough, I think that he gets hogs because he is good. Rough dogs tend to get a bad rap and i dont think that its always a bad thing. I agree that bottom is very important. A loose baying dog without bottom is a cull in my opinion.

[NThoghunter]

Ok guys and gals "play" nice.  Let's try to stick with the topic and not stray off with "drama". If you need to vent get in the woods and catch hog;)

[djhogdogger]

Ok guys and gals "play" nice.  Let's try to stick with the topic and not stray off with "drama". If you need to vent get in the woods and catch hog;)

Sorry if i got out of hand. I could type for days on this subject.

[uglydog]

Okay what about thye piggie that ran so fast he "had to slow down" to catch his breath, and then the rough dogs caught him, and shut him down. Them rough dogs were so scary that the pig ran out of breath sooner that he would have from any of those loose baying dogs, therefore them rough dogs through a series of unfortunate circumstances, Did really shut him down, right?






  Go head figure that one out!

[djhogdogger]

Okay what about thye piggie that ran so fast he "had to slow down" to catch his breath, and then the rough dogs caught him, and shut him down. Them rough dogs were so scary that the pig ran out of breath sooner that he would have from any of those loose baying dogs, therefore them rough dogs through a series of unfortunate circumstances, Did really shut him down, right?






  Go head figure that one out!

  A caught hog is a caught hog! No matter if your dog stands on his head to get a hog to stop and look.

[chainrated]

Okay what about thye piggie that ran so fast he "had to slow down" to catch his breath, and then the rough dogs caught him, and shut him down. Them rough dogs were so scary that the pig ran out of breath sooner that he would have from any of those loose baying dogs, therefore them rough dogs through a series of unfortunate circumstances, Did really shut him down, right?






  Go head figure that one out!

In a perfect hunting situation like a wide open field where a fast dog could stretch his legs and use his speed I would agree with you a dog could put a lot of pressure on a hog. But in thick woods it's a whole new ballgame, the hog has all the advantage and can stay ahead of  a dog for as long as he chooses to in my opinion.. Think about it like this if you were chasing someone of equal speed through the woods and they knew exactly where they were goin and you didn't and they had been all through those woods no telling how many times and they never had slow down to try and look for you, all they had to do was keep running with their head up and lookin straight ahead, do you think you could "shut them down".
 Not too hard to figure out I don't think.

[scdogman]

Rough dogs might not shut down runners any better that a loose dog.  They just prevent them from running.

How many times have "runners" bay and then break bay.  Go and read the stories.   It happens all the time.  


 I see the value in rough dogs as preventinge hog from leaving the first bay. In my eyes true rough dogs need to be hunted together and be short to medium range to live long.

There are some areas that hogs just run way worst than others, but if they make the mistake of baying for too long they will need to cut there way out.

[djhogdogger]

Okay what about thye piggie that ran so fast he "had to slow down" to catch his breath, and then the rough dogs caught him, and shut him down. Them rough dogs were so scary that the pig ran out of breath sooner that he would have from any of those loose baying dogs, therefore them rough dogs through a series of unfortunate circumstances, Did really shut him down, right?






  Go head figure that one out!

In a perfect hunting situation like a wide open field where a fast dog could stretch his legs and use his speed I would agree with you a dog could put a lot of pressure on a hog. But in thick woods it's a whole new ballgame, the hog has all the advantage and can stay ahead of  a dog for as long as he chooses to in my opinion.. Think about it like this if you were chasing someone of equal speed through the woods and they knew exactly where they were goin and you didn't and they had been all through those woods no telling how many times and they never had slow down to try and look for you, all they had to do was keep running with their head up and lookin straight ahead, do you think you could "shut them down".
 Not too hard to figure out I don't think.

A runner is going to run no matter what. A dog, will need bottom and drive to run a hog down in the thicket, loose or rough. The reason that i am so passionate about this is because our two best dogs are both curs and one is loose and the other one is rough. My favorite one is the rough one. He has sooo much drive and determination, he keeps the loose dog going when he would otherwise give up. I know this because we have hunted them separately and together. We get outrun every now and then just like everyone else but we have a good catch rate also. We catch them in the open and in the thicket. I think there are sorry dogs loose or rough, but just because someone has a bad experience with a rough dog doesn't make them all bad.