Working Border Collies / Australian Shepherds ?

[Circle C]

Looking for info on where to find a working "collie" type dog, to be used on cattle.

I know where to find trial dogs and show dogs, but I am interested in where to find working dogs.   Any thoughts on where to begin this search?   

I've worked some of our aussies on the cows, but the only one that has enough grit happens to be Mandi's trial dog, and she's off limits to me. Our other dogs do fine on sheep, but lack the grit to work the cows.

Any info will be greatly appreciated.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

http://www.orinbarnesbordercollies.com/bio.html

http://www.orinbarnesbordercollies.com/litters.htm

Orin has top BC's for cattle, as good as there are anywhere. I have a BC from his lines. He will have started dogs from time to time.

[Circle C]

Thanks for the info Paul, my only hesitation is this...  4 litters on the ground in just over 30 days.    Looking at the most recent website, it appears that he has another two litters about 10 days apart.  He may have the best BC's out there, but the volume scares me, with regards to purchasing a pup.


I might give him a call about a started dog, and see if he has anything that might fit what I am looking for.

[Hawkins]

I know absolutely nothing about these dogs, except watching them on Youtube.

But Len Dalton uses Border Collies crossed with a little bulldog. Said the Waggoner Ranch has 20 of his dogs.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtNBX2qP8Wg

Pictures taken at the Waggoner Ranch in Vernon, Texas. Waggoner has twenty of my started dogs that they bought through the years. They maintain approximately 15,000 mama cows and graze 15,000 to 20,000 yearlings every year. Lance Green is in charge of the steers and Chris Henry the heiffers See more @ www.daltonscowdogs.com.

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

Those litters were in 2007, old page.

I have worked cattle with quite a few of his dogs, to say they are outstanding would be an understatement. His training and breeding knowledge is also top rate. A cull from his program would be more dog than most men would ever need.

 

[Circle C]

I am aware that those litters were from 2007,  then there are two more litters 10 days apart in 2011. Heck, he may have only had 6 litters in 4 years, but it sure gives the impression that there's a bit of volume... It just popped out as a red flag to me, but I have zero experience with his dogs, and they may well be some of the best BC's out there.


A cull from his program might be right up my alley, as I am looking for something between a hard cow dog and a soft sheep dog.

[matt_aggie04]

While on that subject does anyone have any experience with a kelpie?  I see quite a few Kelpie x BC dogs for sale and from what I have been able to read the kelpie adds leg, shortens the coat, and adds stamina and heat tolerance to the BC. 

[Silverton Boar Dogs]

They are really better cattle dogs than the BC's as a group.

[aladatrot]

I have always known kelpies to be rougher than border collies. That is one of the ingredients in a hangin tree cowdog.

Cheers
M

[lonewolf]

In my opion having raised and trained Border Collies for about fifteen years. If you want a good BC cattle dog you have to have Hank blood lines! The old hank dog is dead but there are still a lot of his blood out there.Thre are alot of BC's out there that will work cattle but the hank dogs just seem to be tougher and last longer then any other blood lines I've seen or tried. Once again this is just my opion!

[C L]

I have heard of some good dogs which came from Orin Barnes' kennel. There are several other breeders of Border Collies for working cattle. Len Dalton raises, trains and sells good cowdogs but I don't think he sells puppies. I have seen several Kelpies in the U.S. that were good cowdogs, but I have seen more Border Collies that were good cowdogs. There are Border Collie lines that are more suited for working sheep but there are also Border Collie lines that are well suited for working cattle. Also, there a number of smooth-coated, leggy Border Collies in use. Glenn Guttridge had Kelpies before he bought Hank; there are a lot of good Border Collie cowdogs that have Hank in their pedigree. I don't know where you are located but there are good Border Collie cowdog-bred pups available all over Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana.

[Circle C]

C L,

I am located near Houston.  I don't mind travelling for the right dog, but would really like to find one within a few hundred miles.  The dogs I've seen that I liked most could work sheep without chewing them up, but they could also move some stubborn cattle. Seemed like their moves were very calculated, using eyes first, and when that didn't work, they'd use their teeth. No unnecessary roughness. I don't need some deep showy outrun, just a chore dog that I.can use in pastures 100 acres or less and some pen work moving roping steers up a return.

Having been around so many neurotic bc's, I would prefer a started dog over taking the.gamble with a pup

smooth coated is fine too.

If anyone runs across something similar to what I described, I would sure appreciate you letting me know.

[BOBDOG]

Hey, this guy is in Australia, but I know there are some of his dogs in the states. Super nice guy and loves to talk dogs.


http://www.youtube.com/user/mck9#p/u/14/TRPe6xQTRFk

[C L]

Circle C, there is a cattle trial at Hillsboro on Saturday, March 26 listed on the Tx Sheepdog website, below:

     http://texassheepdogassoc.org/06%20-%20upcoming%20trials.htm

The dogs will likely be working yearlings (I was told Jersey steers), and many of the dogs will not have enough bite to fit your deal, but some may fit your needs. The contestants will be mostly trial handlers; sometimes you can find a dog that doesn't do well in a trial because of one reason or another, and you can buy a well-trained young dog for a reasonable price. You may find a breeder or handler there that can give you a lead on a suitable dog for you. Your description of a dog using eye then bite as needed is pretty much my ideal dog, if the bite when needed is sufficient. There are fewer of those dogs around than I would like. At a cattle trial with the dogs used only on cattle (and not sheep), many of the dogs bite more readily than you described in your specifications. But there are also some dogs like you described at those trials.

[Circle C]

C L,

    Thanks for the link and info about the cattle trial.  I'll be tied up that Saturday attending a Texas Parks and Wildlife event in Conroe, TX for Lone Star Working Dog Association.  I'll see if I can find another one in the near future, and start asking around about some "culls"

  There's a dog owned by a man in the Oklahoma panhandle that might fit my bill, he's a grower, and has been using him strictly on cattle. We've worked with a littermate to this dog, and she's my ideal dog, but I don't think the OK dog is quite as far along. Add to that a lot of miles between us.... I've been trying to look for at options before I pull the trigger on him.

[tobyb2007]

Randy white has some sure nuf good dogs. They had an article about his dogs a while back in the land and livestock post. He runs el camino ranch a stocker operation between wheelock and normangee. My dad got one from him a while back and she was real smart and knew how to work a cow at a young age but she got run over and he got another one that was out of his dogs and she is the same way. If you want his number send me a pm and I will try to dig it up for ya. 

[jdt]

miklescowdogs.net , has a forum and somebody should be able to help you .

[SLacowboy]

Check out cowdogworld.com. Have several dogs for sale on there. Some have youtube vids with the ads. There are many border collie blood lines out there that are bred strictly for cows. Some very though dogs. I have one dog that will work with alot of eye like a sheep dog but will grab a cow on the nose and get rough. Find a decent started dog and find someone with a couple to go and break your cattle. Pretty soon you can move them anywhere without any trouble. It actually gets to where its no fun. I have been grazing pairs on rye for a few hours a day and sending the dog to fetch them off. Now when they hear the cummins comming down the road they just start heading for the gate.

[nothing]

dont know how long ago this was posted but my advice . kelpie should do the trick border collies are good on sheep but over here everyone uses kelpies now on sheep and cattle . or try a blue heeler there good dogs too

[Circle C]

Talked to a number of people the past week. Including Len Dalton, who currently has a one year waiting list for a started dog. Matt Aggie located some BC x Kelpie pups, he picked up a male for him and a female for me. It will give me something to mess with for the next 6 months or so, though I am still looking for a started dog.