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Noah
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« on: April 28, 2011, 05:56:34 pm » |
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From day one of deciding this is what I wanted to do I've had my eyes open.... watching for any dog that is better than what I got to do things the way I like to do...
Having said that, I've collected what I feel are the best genetics that I've been around... not that there aren't dogs out there that make what I'm workin' with look like chit... but... the best that I've had access to....
I love these dogs I have now... but every day I'm lookin' for that "better" dog, be it a old line bred dog or a wild dog runnin' loose in the woods... I will hunt and incorporate into my program any dog I feel brings something to the table... not unlike who I choose to hunt with...
Having said that ... the longer I've been huntin', the more I'm startin' to wonder if it's not simply more experience(when dealing with a competent dog) that makes the difference... Seen some awful good dogs that weren't bred to the hilt... but they'd been on a LOT of hogs... and it showed...
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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BarrNinja
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 07:17:58 pm » |
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I can't speak for everyone but experience has been everything for me. I like to think I have a good eye for stock in general but I'm not a natural. I know a few though. I wouldn't trade my time at the school of hard knocks for the finest bred dogs in the world. If I did, by the time I was through with them, they would be just a bunch of watered down pot lickers!  |
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"No man should be allowed to be President who does not understand hogs." - President Harry Truman
“I like hogs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Hogs treat us as equals” - Sir Winston Churchill
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Noah
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2011, 07:22:16 pm » |
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When it's all said and done, I can't help but notice the best dogs I've been around were those with massive amounts of time put into them... maybe as important, if not more, than the breeding of the dog?
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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M Bennet
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2011, 07:54:57 pm » |
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yur right time in woods and lots of catching hogs not dry runs,and letting pups chew on hogs,some times my buddys ty all dogs up and let the hog and pups run it or hobble 2 legs and let them hold and bay it, but your right lots of woods time
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Monty Bennet
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BarrNinja
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2011, 08:04:43 pm » |
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When it's all said and done, I can't help but notice the best dogs I've been around were those with massive amounts of time put into them... maybe as important, if not more, than the breeding of the dog?
Two breeders that I truly respect told me that it helps. That's it...........it helps. Lol. No more elaboration on the subject. Like you say, they put a massive amount of time in behind their dogs though. I think that's the difference between folks like that and me. They know what they have when they have it. I have to spend time to figure it out. |
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"No man should be allowed to be President who does not understand hogs." - President Harry Truman
“I like hogs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Hogs treat us as equals” - Sir Winston Churchill
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chainrated
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« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2011, 08:06:21 pm » |
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I agree that woods time will definitely make a dog better IF you have a dog that has the want to. But I don't think it's the main thing that makes a dog , I think it's more important to linebreed on dogs you like and produce dogs with that want to and then the woods time will make them better and better..
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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shankem
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« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 08:14:15 pm » |
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Glad you posted this; been wondering that myself. Actually just purchased a finished mt. curr almost solely because of her experience and tendency to try and train younger dogs. The seller was given this dog by a guy who was given this dog by another guy who said she was a cull and probably wouldn't make even a yard dog. So he (the seller) spent the last three years hunting the crap out of this little dog and now at five years old I feel lucky to have her. Supposably she is a juke box??? IDK what that is. So IDK if she's well bred or not, but I think given the right chance at the right time anything's possible.
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Reuben
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« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2011, 08:14:52 pm » |
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Well, hunting time is important but I got a dog back from my brother that was 2 years old and he was a back yard dog since he was 10 weeks old. I already had him baying shoats and trailing short drags as a pup. My Brother was going to make a blood trailing dog out of him but never started training.
At 2 years of age I put him in a bay pen twice in one week and took him to the woods and he was striking hogs from then on. He was as good as my other dogs within a month or two.
My opinion is that we can't train long range winding ability or cold trailing if the dog is not inclined to do so. We can't train hunting range or the ability to strike and find hogs. I believe that thru repetition and training we can bring out the best in a dog and his ability is dependant mostly by genetics.
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2011, 08:18:13 pm » |
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Glad you posted this; been wondering that myself. Actually just purchased a finished mt. curr almost solely because of her experience and tendency to try and train younger dogs. The seller was given this dog by a guy who was given this dog by another guy who said she was a cull and probably wouldn't make even a yard dog. So he (the seller) spent the last three years hunting the crap out of this little dog and now at five years old I feel lucky to have her. Supposably she is a juke box??? IDK what that is. So IDK if she's well bred or not, but I think given the right chance at the right time anything's possible.
Juke box bred dogs are supposed to be real hard hunting coon and squirrel dogs. I bet she would put out some good pups if she is bred JB top and bottom. |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Noah
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« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2011, 08:27:21 pm » |
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Ahhhh.... but what if I said that I believe all dogs posess the same basic fundamental skills/instincts.... ... if one dog can smell one molecule out of a thousand and another can smell one in 1100... I say they can both smell a hog  I've personally seen more trained hog dogs than purposefully genetic hog dogs.... as far as dogs I consider true hog dogs... I believe we can tweak a dog through breeding to "start earlier", "hustle more", "take a colder track", etc... but I am really startin' to believe at some point you just got to pick one out and put the time in to make it great. |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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BarrNinja
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2011, 08:46:15 pm » |
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I agree that woods time will definitely make a dog better IF you have a dog that has the want to. But I don't think it's the main thing that makes a dog , I think it's more important to linebreed on dogs you like and produce dogs with that want to and then the woods time will make them better and better..
This is what the breeders I revered to were getting at. A lot of hunting time helps but they didn't put an emphasis on it. I happen to agree. I know of a few fine dogs that hardly ever get worked but when they do get hauled, you better have a good breakfast under your belt. They never miss a beat. |
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"No man should be allowed to be President who does not understand hogs." - President Harry Truman
“I like hogs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Hogs treat us as equals” - Sir Winston Churchill
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shankem
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2011, 08:54:42 pm » |
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Thanks Reuben. Noah, I think yer on to something here. So could having too many dogs keep one or two from being great due to lack of time? I mean younger dogs not finished and with very little experience on pigs. I only kept one pup out of my litter thinking along these lines.
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Noah
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 09:03:36 pm » |
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Bingo With more dogs than time to hunt I'm in that situation... Pen full of good dogs or a couple of great ones.... make a man second guess hisself |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Kessling Kennels
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2011, 09:05:58 pm » |
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You can't make a dog hunt!
If the dog has the drive and want too you can improve his abilities by keeping them in the woods.
I've went through the SUPER BREEDERS out there and have realized if you will do alittle homework and breed what your looking for and make your own dogs you will be alot happier in the long run.
If I can get 2 really good pups out of a litter of 6 or so,I feel like I've done good.
I look more in a young to have drive and sticking power than Bloodline.
Im always breeding my females and looking for the 1 super pup.
I've given away several complete litters that I did'nt think would make the cut.
I have a hand that works for me 6 days a week and his job every morning is to work the young dogs in my 5 acre bay pen.
This allows me to descide which ones will make the cut alot sooner than most.
This works for us.
If you don't cull real hard you will never get what your looking for.
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Noah
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 09:28:34 pm » |
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Gotta disagree(sorry Reuben ) .... Dogs are EXTREMELY intelligent and a good trainer can teach a dog to do about anything.... including hunt... |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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Silverton Boar Dogs
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 09:29:19 pm » |
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Noah, I believe that we breed style, drive, and consistency/uniformity. The work is what makes the dog. Experience in the field is the icing on the genetic cake so to speak. A good breeder spends alot of time training and hunting, if you have good genetics and a good eye for selecting, then you are going to produce consistently solid dogs.
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« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 09:39:13 pm by Silverton Boar Dogs »
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Kessling Kennels
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2011, 09:37:04 pm » |
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Noah, I have 2 pits Im going to send to ya. I would like for them both to bay and get them to range out a little farther, They are both alittle close range for me. |
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BarrNinja
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2011, 09:40:06 pm » |
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Gotta disagree(sorry Reuben ) .... Dogs are EXTREMELY intelligent and a good trainer can teach a dog to do about anything.... including hunt... Well, I guess that leaves me out of the "good trainer" category. In better than 25 years of hunting dogs, I have not figured out how to train a dog to hunt. |
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"No man should be allowed to be President who does not understand hogs." - President Harry Truman
“I like hogs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Hogs treat us as equals” - Sir Winston Churchill
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Noah
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 09:43:32 pm » |
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I agree... just trying to explain to myself how the nothing-bred dogs I've been around became hog dogs... cuz it dang sure wasn't genetics... Know an old outlaw that right now I could take a golden retriever to and in a couple yrs he'd be a top notch hog dog... some people can just make a dog... Noah, I have 2 pits Im going to send to ya. I would like for them both to bay and get them to range out a little farther, They are both alittle close range for me. Haha! ...You do realize I am an ex-horse trainer... For the right $$ I can train those pits to do anything you want |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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