Training vs Genetics.

[Mike]

Every now and then I hear someone say that training is the most important factor in making a hog dog over genetics.

What are yall's thoughts?

How do you train a dog to go out 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, a mile, looking for a hog?

How do you train a dog to take a track and stay with it until the hog is found?

How do you train a dog to stay with a running hog for many miles and many hours until it's bayed?

That's all genetics to me, you can't train the hunt, drive and bottom into a dog.

Putting a handle on your dog and trash breaking is the only training involved in my opinion.

[TShelly]

I totally agree Mike.!!!! Being a novice and not understanding how genetics played a role when I began hunting about about 6 years ago, it was all about color and looks for me. Blue eyed cats and pretty color!! I felt that with enough time and experience you could train them to be hog dogs. Well I'll tell you right now my first 3 catahoulas were culls do to their genetic lacking. We used to hunt even more than we do now and I put those dogs on 100's and 100's of hogs with big E's and other peoples fiinished dogs. All they ever amounted to were good bay or help dogs..

Fast Forward 5 years: I have now immersed myself into a proven bloodline and have pups that are finding hogs under a year old, 9 month old pups that will run a track for 2 hours with the old dogs. Ive found the hard way that genetics play a superior roll in the make up of hog dog. Plain and simple...

Dont get me wrong though, I believe that LOTS of hogs and "training" can make a dog better.. but only if the genetic make up and want to are bred into that dog

[txhogsanddogs]

That's my opinion as well.  I hunt one finshed dog, and what i mean by finished is not a coon dog, bird dog, cat dog, or any kind of TRASH dog on the ground and hunt usually 2 pups with just one finished.  Mine have always followed in the foot steps of the father running and hunting and the ones that dog go back to Wal-Mart!    JMO

[ric.o]

Genetics first,proper exposure second.

[cajunl]

My opinion is

average genetics + exceptional training = a good dog

exceptional genetics + marginal training = good dog

Exceptional genetics + Exceptional training= exceptional dog


By training I think it is more than sit and stay, But trips to the woods and exposure more than anything.

[BobbyB]

My opinion is any one or anything can be trained and learn the mechanics of how to do something.  But to take that training and have people talk about how great that something is being done requires a God given ability deep down inside,  that applies to animals and people. Just look at great ball players, race horses, painters, champion bird dogs and on and on.

[noelle]

this topic is prone for some differences of opinion... so no offense meant here...any dog that is exposed to a hog enough and taught to want a hog bad enough or ran with a dog with bottom and range and such will pick it up. Its not very hard to teach a dog range and bottom and to find hogs, if you have the skills to do it you can take a young dog that wont even leave your side and pen it up with a long range dog for a couple weeks and the young dog will roll out with that dog 9 out of 10 times and pick up that range, same with the bottom and drive and all that. ask yourself out of all the dogs with so called great genetics how many young dogs just naturally do it on their own, without puttin them with another dog? Are they put all by theirself till they are old enough to hunt then just turn them loose all by theirself and they have the range and bottom and go bay hogs and from then on they just have to be taught not to run trash and to handle right? thatll actually do it and prove it instead just posting that they will?  its a mindset that just cuz it has good blood it has to b the blood makin it such a great dog and not the training or other dogs its huntin with rubbin off on them...I been raisin dogs a long time and i like breedin for genetics and traits within a bloodline, but the fact of the matter is you can go spend alot of money on a finished dog and hunt a total $h!t eater with that dog and make a top dog out it if you had the desire to do it. breedin one or two dogs that you happen to get that are decent dogs is not breeding genetics or desired traits, 2 or 3 generations of dogs are not gonna b (line bred) and a top breeding program where you have natural talent every time with little or no culls, more luck than anything although there are some older lines that have far higher percentages... 20-30+ yr old lines, too many people luck up on a decent dog these days and start their own (line) of dogs and have no idea what they are doin or if that decent dog was the only decent dog from the litter or anything else. theres a few good guys on here that know what they are doin and talkin about, and alot of people that base their opinion on the popular opinion or what a certain person thinks to get brownie points, im sure my opinion is not the popular opinion and if it was then nobody would say so but a real dog man can make a top notch dog out of nothing as well as breed one to have it in his blood...genetics can raise percentages, bring pride to your pack, and make you proud of them, its a great theory and hobby, and i been breedin genetics a long time, but a good dog is born, a great dog is made JMO

[TShelly]

Insert Quote
this topic is prone for some differences of opinion... so no offense meant here...any dog that is exposed to a hog enough and taught to want a hog bad enough or ran with a dog with bottom and range and such will pick it up. Its not very hard to teach a dog range and bottom and to find hogs, if you have the skills to do it  you can take a young dog that wont even leave your side and pen it up with a long range dog for a couple weeks and the young dog will roll out with that dog 9 out of 10 times and pick up that range, same with the bottom and drive and all that. ask yourself out of all the dogs with so called great genetics how many young dogs just naturally do it on their own, without puttin them with another dog? Are they put all by theirself till they are old enough to hunt then just turn them loose all by theirself and they have the range and bottom and go bay hogs and from then on they just have to be taught not to run trash and to handle right? thatll actually do it and prove it instead just posting that they will?  its a mindset that just cuz it has good blood it has to b the blood makin it such a great dog and not the training or other dogs its huntin with rubbin off on them...I been raisin dogs a long time and i like breedin for genetics and traits within a bloodline, but the fact of the matter is you can go spend alot of money on a finished dog and hunt a total $h!t eater with that dog and make a top dog out it if you had the desire to do it. breedin one or two dogs that you happen to get that are decent dogs is not breeding genetics or desired traits, 2 or 3 generations of dogs are not gonna b (line bred) and a top breeding program where you have natural talent every time with little or no culls, more luck than anything although there are some older lines that have far higher percentages... 20-30+ yr old lines, too many people luck up on a decent dog these days and start their own (line) of dogs and have no idea what they are doin or if that decent dog was the only decent dog from the litter or anything else. theres a few good guys on here that know what they are doin and talkin about, and alot of people that base their opinion on the popular opinion or what a certain person thinks to get brownie points, im sure my opinion is not the popular opinion and if it was then nobody would say so but a real dog man can make a top notch dog out of nothing as well as breed one to have it in his blood...genetics can raise percentages, bring pride to your pack, and make you proud of them, its a great theory and hobby, and i been breedin genetics a long time, but a good dog is born, a great dog is made  JMO

we may have to send you a few of our lower tiered cull dogs for you to finish out for us the ones that cant hang with our long range, long bottomed dogs because of their lack of want or genetically bred characteristics

[halfbreed]

you can train any dog to do any thing well but genetics makes the training easyer and faster . i can get ya grannys 13 year old half blind poodle to run a line and bay .

[Centexhogdogger]

I totally agree Mike.!!!! Being a novice and not understanding how genetics played a role when I began hunting about about 6 years ago, it was all about color and looks for me. Blue eyed cats and pretty color!! I felt that with enough time and experience you could train them to be hog dogs. Well I'll tell you right now my first 3 catahoulas were culls do to their genetic lacking. We used to hunt even more than we do now and I put those dogs on 100's and 100's of hogs with big E's and other peoples fiinished dogs. All they ever amounted to were good bay or help dogs..

Fast Forward 5 years: I have now immersed myself into a proven bloodline and have pups that are finding hogs under a year old, 9 month old pups that will run a track for 2 hours with the old dogs. Ive found the hard way that genetics play a superior roll in the make up of hog dog. Plain and simple...

Dont get me wrong though, I believe that LOTS of hogs and "training" can make a dog better.. but only if the genetic make up and want to are bred into that dog

X2... Btw all the pups died.. HEAT got em i tried everything

[noelle]

im by no means sayin there arent culls... if the time and effort has been put into them for a decent time then they oughta b culled. just depends how much time ur willin to put into one before u give up on it.

[Centexhogdogger]

i have had dogs from ppl who culled them. she had the bloodline so i took her.
i train all my dogs in the woods.
i got here at 6 months. let her get use to me. now she is 1 1/2 and she hunts her a$$ off.
she is a red cur. she will stop a runner and will hunt out with the best of them.
alot of ppl dont give a dog a chance.
 i have seen ppl cull a dog after 10wks.

i have also had a lander/ weatherford ben cross dog  guy didnt like his look.

he had the lines but he turned on the first pig i put him on.
but got hit and he never bayed again.
he was 14months


its the dog not the line. its the heart and the desire

[johnie]

Centex, I've always heard one man's trash is anothers  treasure. My trash rarely makes it out of the yard.

[Centexhogdogger]

yea same here. i will give a dog i cull away to someone just wanting dogs to get started.
now if there culled completly then they dont leave yard.

[make-em-squeel]

I have to say you are spot on Mike. Genetics are the primary reason why dogs are what they are.

Take a step back and look on a bigger level and thats why bird dogs point, hounds track, heelers etc.

Of coarse training and socializing are needed but your not going to "train" a reproduceable dog!

[noelle]

Centex, I've always heard one man's trash is anothers  treasure. My trash rarely makes it out of the yard.

how true... i got sum dam good culls outta ur yard that made top $ dogs over the years lol. .. but without a doubt ur the hardest cullin man i ever known 

[chainrated]

The 2 main things a hogdog has to have is Want To and HUNT and unfortunately those are the 2 things you just can't train into a dog..  If you could train a dog to have drive and want to then the cops wouldn't buy
10,000 dollar malinois dogs from germany, bird hunters wouldn't pay ridiculous amounts of money for pointers and god knows we wouldn't pay 3-5,000 for hogdogs. We would all just pick up a free dog and "train" it to do whatever we wanted. There is a BIG difference in training a dog to load up or sit or jump and "training" a dog to hunt hogs..
Anybody that thinks they can train a dog to hunt, find, run and bay hogs I will drive to your house and stop on the way and pick up every stray I see and in one year I will pay you $2500 for every dog that you make a hogdog out of. Not only that, I will bring you the ones I cull off my yard that are linebred off hogdogs for 4 generations and will give you $3000 for every one you train into a hogdog.. No way you can lose..
Now with that being said there are definitely certain people who are just natural dogmen and can get more out of a hogdog...

[Centexhogdogger]

I'll take that deal

[noelle]

in theory, i think all true cur dogs had it way back in the day, its the cross breeding and tryin this with that and a touch of hound and a bit of bulldog and all the folks tryin to start lines and inbreeding cuz they gotta couple good dogs they think they can just breed and reproduce the same dog trying to make superdogs...this has bred out alot of the good traits in the true cur dog which is why today so many people have to cull so hard that know what their doin and its such a chore to have good cur dogs repetitively... shoulda just left them alone in my opinion... cuz the true 20-30+ year old lines that remain true cur dogs are a rare breed but also the ones that still have what it takes to make the cut. fact is boys they didnt need improving till people started trying to improve them the real dogs are capable of throwing the genetics for natural talent, but most of the dog breedin programs today are a daydream of makin a superdog... not singlin nobody out and the ones who understand what im saying wont be offended, the ones that are in search of superdogs mite get offended and thats not my intention at all so i apologize in advance for anyone that gets offended

[treeingratterrier]

The 2 main things a hogdog has to have is Want To and HUNT and unfortunately those are the 2 things you just can't train into a dog..  If you could train a dog to have drive and want to then the cops wouldn't buy
10,000 dollar malinois dogs from germany, bird hunters wouldn't pay ridiculous amounts of money for pointers and god knows we wouldn't pay 3-5,000 for hogdogs. We would all just pick up a free dog and "train" it to do whatever we wanted. There is a BIG difference in training a dog to load up or sit or jump and "training" a dog to hunt hogs..
Anybody that thinks they can train a dog to hunt, find, run and bay hogs I will drive to your house and stop on the way and pick up every stray I see and in one year I will pay you $2500 for every dog that you make a hogdog out of. Not only that, I will bring you the ones I cull off my yard that are linebred off hogdogs for 4 generations and will give you $3000 for every one you train into a hogdog.. No way you can lose..
Now with that being said there are definitely certain people who are just natural dogmen and can get more out of a hogdog...

I wish i had a dollar for every dog that was a stray or came out of a dog pound that was trained to be a hog dog in south texas before the web....be a huge pile.....