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Noah
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It's simple, If you could "train" any old dog to be a hogdog someone would already be doing it and capitalizing on all the money to be made. NOBODY is doin it..
Why in the world are yall not scooping up every dog you can get your hands on and training it to be a hogdog and selling it? Can someone please answer that?
I can train most animals to do what they shouldn't do... but with a hog dog, to TRAIN a hog dog, takes a MASSIVE amount of effort... even with superior genetics as you know.... couple that with the amount of property it takes to provide said "prospect" with sufficient opportunity... .... a few thousand acres of unpressured, hog supporting land... that each dog can have access to year round... Can anyone really put a price on that? Land, HOGS, make training possible... without it, you got nothin. So, if someone wants to lease me out JP's back yard & pay me for my time... I'll make all the hog dogs out of whatever you want  |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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noelle
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So which is is? Natural or training............................................................ Make your mind up.
Still waiting.............. In the past two years have you gone from a solid line of dogs with natural drive to having to train them to hunt. First off your demandig is startin to piss me off... Reread on here and see where I disputed that genetics are no part of a dog... I stated over and over that genetics raise the percentages and that it takes both to make great dogs, that either training or genetics alone can produce good dogs... But the combination makes great dogs... Are all my dogs great? No their not, but some of them are good enough to get the job done consistently... Never claimed genetics didn't play a role and never claimed training alone made a great dog consistently either and if it came off that I did I misworded it... Like I said it's my opinion and you don't have to like it I'm not tellin nobody how to do anything just discussing different aspects of it |
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chainrated
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hogtied
Strike Dog
Offline
Posts: 330
Re: training vs. natural instinct
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 10:44:21 pm » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic
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your rite, you cant train the hunt into them... just the fine tuning
Report to moderator 74.193.1.224 (?)
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may your life be free from trouble, like a slick catch and a double!!!
Ha ha ha ha ha... it's amazing ain't it.
Uh Oh,, lmao.... |
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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noelle
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Nose and hunt are hard to put in a dog mike but desire drive and range are not that hard... What is lettin your pups run with older dogs or Sendin pups to the bay if that's not part of a training experience to some extent? It's not independence or natural if their Bein guided to it
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cantexduck
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So which is is? Natural or training............................................................ Make your mind up.
Still waiting.............. In the past two years have you gone from a solid line of dogs with natural drive to having to train them to hunt. First off your demandig is startin to piss me off... Reread on here and see where I disputed that genetics are no part of a dog... I stated over and over that genetics raise the percentages and that it takes both to make great dogs, that either training or genetics alone can produce good dogs... But the combination makes great dogs... Are all my dogs great? No their not, but some of them are good enough to get the job done consistently... Never claimed genetics didn't play a role and never claimed training alone made a great dog consistently either and if it came off that I did I misworded it... Like I said it's my opinion and you don't have to like it I'm not tellin nobody how to do anything just discussing different aspects of it Dont take it personal, I piss off everyone it seems. When it gets too deep, stop digging. |
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There's a coon, nevermind, thats Buster.
"So I pawned my lacy off to my girlfriend. That should teach her to meet men off match.com"
Rich.
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noelle
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Lol was fun while it lasted no more opinion battles for me... I'm a peace lovin man from here on out. And I wasn't that pissed cantex  where there's opinions there's differences y'all carry on I'm on the sidelines on this one lol |
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Mike
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It's simple, If you could "train" any old dog to be a hogdog someone would already be doing it and capitalizing on all the money to be made. NOBODY is doin it..
Why in the world are yall not scooping up every dog you can get your hands on and training it to be a hogdog and selling it? Can someone please answer that?
I can train most animals to do what they shouldn't do... but with a hog dog, to TRAIN a hog dog, takes a MASSIVE amount of effort... even with superior genetics as you know.... couple that with the amount of property it takes to provide said "prospect" with sufficient opportunity... .... a few thousand acres of unpressured, hog supporting land... that each dog can have access to year round... Can anyone really put a price on that? Land, HOGS, make training possible... without it, you got nothin. So, if someone wants to lease me out JP's back yard & pay me for my time... I'll make all the hog dogs out of whatever you want How much do you want Noah? We'll take up a collection and I'm sure Jesse can put you up on one of them big ranches out there. |
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chainrated
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It's simple, If you could "train" any old dog to be a hogdog someone would already be doing it and capitalizing on all the money to be made. NOBODY is doin it..
Why in the world are yall not scooping up every dog you can get your hands on and training it to be a hogdog and selling it? Can someone please answer that?
I can train most animals to do what they shouldn't do... but with a hog dog, to TRAIN a hog dog, takes a MASSIVE amount of effort... even with superior genetics as you know.... couple that with the amount of property it takes to provide said "prospect" with sufficient opportunity... .... a few thousand acres of unpressured, hog supporting land... that each dog can have access to year round... Can anyone really put a price on that? Land, HOGS, make training possible... without it, you got nothin. So, if someone wants to lease me out JP's back yard & pay me for my time... I'll make all the hog dogs out of whatever you want Noah you are right it would take a massive amount of time to try and train a dog to do something that he just didn't want to do. It would In my opinion be a complete waste of your time to try and "train" a dog to hunt for a hog, Trail a hog, run a hog for hours , try to stop it given the chance and then to stand and bay the hog for sometimes hours.. I don't think you or anyone else can do it but not only that, why would you even try? Why would you spend the years it would take to do that when you could get a dog that was bred to do it and has the genetic makeup in him to WANT To do it? Lets have a friendly wager and whoever wants in on it can ... I have a 2 year old dog thats been runnin loose in my yard for 2 years, He is bred pretty good, he is a half dennison dog that was born and raised here. He is a cull according to my standards.. The ONLY reason he is still alive is because my girl claimed him as her dog and I promised her I would not cull him.. I want to see you make a hogdog out of him and if you can I will get on here and say I was wrong and you will win the bet. I want you to train him to take a track, run for at least 2 hours silent and then bay the hog for at least 2 hours if need be. How long do you need ? |
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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Noah
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Haha, Mike, it'd take minimum a $100K/yr plus benefits for me to leave my beloved Florida... but I am open to the idea Chain, just because something CAN be done... doesn't mean it SHOULD be done... but that's how trainers make a livin'... trainin' animals to do what they shouldn't! I'd take a dog like that for no less than 3yrs... with a substantial deposit up front and no guarentees of course I do love it when someone's got more money than sense!!! |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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let-em-go-10
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It's simple, If you could "train" any old dog to be a hogdog someone would already be doing it and capitalizing on all the money to be made. NOBODY is doin it..
Why in the world are yall not scooping up every dog you can get your hands on and training it to be a hogdog and selling it? Can someone please answer that?
They do it on baydog.com lol. There's a lot of people picking up dogs off the side of the road and sale them as hogdogs, without training involved. Do they work probably not, for some people it's a business, go to the dog trade bet you find people on there saleing dogs that u have never seen post. Those are the guys doing it IMO. |
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cajunl
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To me I like to do things simple and not over think it. Take a well bred dog that the parents hunt the way I want and show it tons of hogs. Then just get out of the way and don't screw the dog up. It is not rocket science! |
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Kessling Kennels
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I want in I have a 1 yr old YBMC male thats been started and Is a cull to me. You buy him for $500 and keep him 1 yr at the end of the year If he will strike hogs,long range,stop a runner and bay a hog without trashing I will buy him back for $2500 cash money no BS. If he wont do those things in a yr you bought yourself a cull for $500. I will sign a written guarantee and have it notorized to make it official. Lets see some of those real dog trainers step up. |
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Mike
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To me I like to do things simple and not over think it. Take a well bred dog that the parents hunt the way I want and show it tons of hogs. Then just get out of the way and don't screw the dog up. It is not rocket science! Bingo... we have a winner!!! |
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UNDERDOG
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Lol was fun while it lasted no more opinion battles for me... I'm a peace lovin man from here on out. And I wasn't that pissed cantex where there's opinions there's differences y'all carry on I'm on the sidelines on this one lol In some dog training circles that's called "avoidance" behavior |
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chainrated
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Chain, just because something CAN be done... doesn't mean it SHOULD be done... but that's how trainers make a livin'... trainin' animals to do what they shouldn't! I'd take a dog like that for no less than 3yrs... with a substantial deposit up front and no guarentees of course I do love it when someone's got more money than sense!!! 3 years? LOL... Any trainer that needs 3 years to train a dog better pray to god he can find lots of people with more money than sense.. So you not up for the bet? You get paid when the dog is a guaranteed hogdog... It's just One dog. |
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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chainrated
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To me I like to do things simple and not over think it. It is not rocket science! That's too easy though cajun. lol |
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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noelle
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Lol was fun while it lasted no more opinion battles for me... I'm a peace lovin man from here on out. And I wasn't that pissed cantex where there's opinions there's differences y'all carry on I'm on the sidelines on this one lol In some dog training circles that's called "avoidance" behavior Lol no Bryant that's called been warned and don't want kicked off behavior |
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TexasHogDogs
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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chainrated
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Now that's a cocky lookin dog...
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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Reuben
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genetics is part of it...another important part is selecting the right pups for hunting and breeding...and only the very best should be used...throw away the rose colored glasses and cull hard.
I have seen breeders makes excuses on why a dog is good and why it has bad days etc...etc...when she comes in heat I will breed her to ole blue.
I also have seen breeders cull a pup because the pup was real trashy...that is the kind that usually make the best hunting dogs...
Ole spot finally turned on at 3 years, he is making a dog now. I will probably breed him to ole Sue because she started at 1 year old. Spot is a cull and shouldn't be bred.
another good one...I have 8 pups and I will sell any seven but I will keep one for myself. I guess this person is saying his line of dogs are so good that any pup will turn out...or...he is one heck of a trainer. Either way his strain of dogs is going by the wayside...
THE ABOVE MENTIONED ARE SOME OF THE REASONS WHY LINEBREEDING/INBREEDING CAN STILL FAIL. EVEN WHEN IT FAILS IT IS STILL GENETICS...
To me there is natural progression stages for certain age levels of a pup. If a pup is not on it I wouldn't keep it... some will call this hardnosed...I call it trying to breed better dogs...The cream rises to the top.
GENETICS AND PROPER SELECTION GO HAND IN HAND AND EXPOSURE AND TRAINING A CLOSE SECOND.Training should be minimal but proper socialization with man a must...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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