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txhogsanddogs
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Real simple.
You can make a pot of soup with great ingredence like beef ,chicken,etc... and fine tune it with all the spices in the world and you will have yourself a great pot of soup this is genetics.
Or you can put a turd in the pot and pour all the same great ingredence in it and stir your arms off and at the end of the day you still have a Turd.
That's awesome......  |
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Proud TDHA Member!
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noelle
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Quote from another post...perfect example... We turned out Hunter, Striker and some young dogs out about a 1/2 mile from the feeder and roaded them in that direction. I watched Hunter and Striker on the the Garmin as soon as they jumped him, right at the feeder... the race was on. Lost them at about 1.2 miles and headed that way. Got to within 600 yards of where they fell off the radar and they popped back up at .92 headed back this direction... but moving slow. They crossed way up ahead of us and came bayed in a pond that was about dried up about 800 yards out. We started driving that way and all the young dogs headed to the bay as we got closer .... the young dogs reffered to were with older dogs, and sending them to a bay is not 100% natural talent that is training with older dogs. |
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UNDERDOG
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Quote from another post...perfect example... We turned out Hunter, Striker and some young dogs out about a 1/2 mile from the feeder and roaded them in that direction. I watched Hunter and Striker on the the Garmin as soon as they jumped him, right at the feeder... the race was on. Lost them at about 1.2 miles and headed that way. Got to within 600 yards of where they fell off the radar and they popped back up at .92 headed back this direction... but moving slow. They crossed way up ahead of us and came bayed in a pond that was about dried up about 800 yards out. We started driving that way and all the young dogs headed to the bay as we got closer .... the young dogs reffered to were with older dogs, and sending them to a bay is not 100% natural talent that is training with older dogs.
Never said them young dogs were exeptional either  |
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noelle
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exceptional or not they were relying on older dogs... thats training my friend.
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UNDERDOG
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exceptional or not they were relying on older dogs... thats training my friend.
Fair enough....but if you take a buch of pound dogs in this same scenario will you acheive the same result with junk vs good genetics? What about dropping a shy, never been messed with much,2 nd time being hauled 2nd time in the woods well bred 8 month old pup on the ground with a few older dogs and he roll out 850 -1000 yds with old dog,did he do it cause of traing or genetics? he has olny seen the other dog twice as the dog he rolled with does not belong to me. |
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ric.o
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If training is the key to have consistant good dogs. Many of breeders before me has wasted their lifes:
I just cant believe it! Why dont some of u pound trainers call and tell them:
Here is a list by breed of line breeders that give us the dogs we all have today:
(plotts) danny sanders, mike cauley,terry blanchard,marty scelfo,orval roberts
(curs) joey denison,jim ward,larry parker
I could go on and on.
genetics first, proper exposure second. If u believe anything else. Nothing I can say will help u.
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Kessling Kennels
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If training is the key to have consistant good dogs. Many of breeders before me has wasted their lifes:
I just cant believe it! Why dont some of u pound trainers call and tell them:
Here is a list by breed of line breeders that give us the dogs we all have today:
(plotts) danny sanders, mike cauley,terry blanchard,marty scelfo,orval roberts
(curs) joey denison,jim ward,larry parker
I could go on and on.
genetics first, proper exposure second. If u believe anything else. Nothing I can say will help u.
We have a winner! If you dont understand genetics you will never understand anyone who does. |
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noelle
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dogs dont have to b familiar with another dog to go with it... thats using a dog to start the pups which is training in its best form. dogs are like certain people, some dont wanna hunt alone cuz their scared of the dark or afraid of the hogs, but they will man up when their with another feller even if they dont know each other very well. same as with a dog, a pup dont wanna hunt alone sometimes...and most truely great young dogs are bein ran with another dog, that is training even tho your not hands on training him yourself. And the pups that are in question are not goin 1000 yds and bayin hogs on their own... better yet runnin with the older dogs, and goin to a bay and most any pup thatll bark at a hog a few times will figure out to go to a bay... either way you wanna word it, they are bein trained, its not all natural talent, their not doin it alone off strictly genetics... no offence but if you dont apply your own theories to your own dogs then its nothin more than just b/s on the net according to your theory underdog the pups in reference are culls cuz they dont genetically do it all alone? im confused here |
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 04:39:59 pm by noelle »
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Noah
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If you dont understand genetics you will never understand anyone who does.
As could be said for training... |
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Welcome to the Gun Show
Noah Metzger 352 316 8005
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chainrated
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well said, no doubt it raises percentages, but the topic is saying genetics alone make every aspect of a dog except the handling and trash breaking which is just not true and only someone new to raising pups could think it is in my opinion, yes there is a better chance of genetics making a outstanding dog opposed to just a good dog... but does anyone really believe that genetics alone can make, train, and finish an exceptional dog consistently without any training whatsoever besides trash breaking??? thats the point im tring to make and keep gettin off track I don't think the topic was saying genetics alone makes every aspect of a dog and I wasn't either.. The topic is training vs genetics and I'm not sure what you're trying to argue because you just said your dogs have been linebred for 40 years and that genetics will give you a higher percentage of good dogs. You are basically agreeing with and arguing the same thing at the same time.. I can't imagine someone hunting and breeding a line of dogs for 40 years if they thought they could just train a dog to have the same hunt and want to.. And yes I do think that you could take a dog with the right genetics and want to to the woods and do nothing but turn him loose and he would figure out how to hunt and run and bay hogs. Who is "training" all them coyotes and wolves to hunt , find, rundown and kill food? Wonder why they all look so much alike? Genetics. Mother Nature Culls HARD.. |
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Our houses are protected by the good lord and a gun, you might meet em both if you show up here unwelcome son..
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noelle
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Every now and then I hear someone say that training is the most important factor in making a hog dog over genetics.
What are yall's thoughts?
How do you train a dog to go out 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile, a mile, looking for a hog?
How do you train a dog to take a track and stay with it until the hog is found?
How do you train a dog to stay with a running hog for many miles and many hours until it's bayed?
That's all genetics to me, you can't train the hunt, drive and bottom into a dog.
Putting a handle on your dog and trash breaking is the only training involved in my opinion.
a refreshment of the original post |
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noelle
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We turned out Hunter, Striker and some young dogs out about a 1/2 mile from the feeder and roaded them in that direction. I watched Hunter and Striker on the the Garmin as soon as they jumped him, right at the feeder... the race was on. Lost them at about 1.2 miles and headed that way. Got to within 600 yards of where they fell off the radar and they popped back up at .92 headed back this direction... but moving slow. They crossed way up ahead of us and came bayed in a pond that was about dried up about 800 yards out. We started driving that way and all the young dogs headed to the bay as we got closer
that is saying one thing and doin another in my book chain rated
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Kessling Kennels
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Every now and then I hear someone say that training is the most important factor in making a hog dog over genetics.
Mikes Statement above asked If training was the most important over genetics.
If you start with good genetics its easier to achieve your goal to end up with a good dog.
Sure the best genetics in the world wont produce chit without the proper exposer (training).Pretty damn obvious.
Very few people have really good dogs and most come from genetics.
If you ever had the opertunity to have an edge over making a good dog than why would anyone settle for just a dog.
A chit eater eats,drinks as much as a super dog. |
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UNDERDOG
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im confused here
You are correct..... |
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noelle
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and yes i believe in genetics reread or something cuz ive said it over and over, doesnt mean im not sharp enough to separate theory from fact.. just because i do something dont make it right or the only way, guess u could say that i believe in training and genetics and nothin i read is gonna change that... but genetics alone wont do it same as training alone wont |
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Kessling Kennels
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Your exactly correct it takes both genetics and training to make a great dog.
I just believe genetics is the foundation.
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noelle
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im confused here
You are correct..... lol guess the contradiction speaks for itself well im bout to take these $h!% eaters to the woods and catch sume hogs... i type slower on my phone than the computer but ill try to keep up lol |
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UNDERDOG
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im confused here
You are correct..... lol guess the contradiction speaks for itself well im bout to take these $h!% eaters to the woods and catch sume hogs... i type slower on my phone than the computer but ill try to keep up lol Exposure and oportunity are not the same as trainig..... |
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noelle
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Your exactly correct it takes both genetics and training to make a great dog.
I just believe genetics is the foundation.
thats probably pretty accurate...just like the genetics can be good or bad lol all dogs have genetics... only a few have desirable genetics which is the important part to know about breeding dogs for genetics |
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Scott
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im confused here
You are correct..... lol guess the contradiction speaks for itself well im bout to take these $h!% eaters to the woods and catch sume hogs... i type slower on my phone than the computer but ill try to keep up lol Exposure and oportunity are not the same as trainig..... Exactly! |
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