Dilemma...

[Noah]

I've always had a young horse or two in the field, I train a bit here and there when I have time because I enjoy it... after a year or two, I sell it and use the money to buy another colt... never like letting go, but you can't keep them all...

As I have begun to raise my own dogs, I am running into the same dilemma....  As new generations come along, I find myself more interested in the training aspect of things than just overall numbers of hogs caught...  With this, my more mature dogs become more of a hinderance to me than a help...

... I cannot, as much as I'd like to, keep all the animals I train.  Quite simply, I just don't have the time to hunt them all... as much as I wish I did.

The thought of selling any of them makes me want to puke... and although I've toyed with the idea, I have not yet.  The thought of one of my products being sent on down the line has always made my stomach turn.... I have people contact me still, that have tracked me down to tell me how much they enjoy the handful of horses that I have sold... sometimes a half dozen owners later...

... when you turn loose of an animal you've put that much time into, a piece of yourself goes with it... putting a price on that can cause mixed emotions to say the least...

As I continue down the path that I am on, I can see the need to do something with the "finished dogs"(and I use that term loosely) that I produce, to make room(more importantly time) for my next generation...

...Recently I made room by giving some dogs to some of my closest friends... people that appreciate what I'm after....

... but what to do when their kennel is full... I do not know.

[djhogdogger]

 That is a tough one. I could never turn loose of the older dogs that we have trained. I have only bred one litter to keep and train (kept 3, got one back, so 4 pups) I have no more room so I have decided to only breed when I need more dogs.

 Since you enjoy training your own dogs, that is a delima. I will be watching this thread to see what ideas people come up with.

[Mike]

Build more kennels... I learned the hard way that you can't have to many dogs.

[jdt]

noah i know what your saying . people are always wanting me to" just price"the horse that i use draggin bulls at the bullridings . i just ca'nt , he aint worth what it would cost to replace him .

     just like most of my dogs , they aint worth what blood and sweat iv'e got in them , and they probably wouldnt suit most folks anyway . but if i ever do get more than i need to use then they will be sold for what they are worth ... or given too folks that i know can appreciate them .

[Reuben]

Well, this is how I did it...I knew that if not turning over the dogs often enough I would wind up with 3 generations in 15 years and I really couldn't call that my line of dogs. I knew to turn them over and not make mistakes when doing it. The cream rises to the top with a higher turn over rate if done properly.

I bred to get 4 generations of males and hunted at least 3 generations at the same time and then settled on breeding the #3 and #4 generation male dogs. But the females I turned over faster... and I tested hard and selected for nose, hunt, stick, and the ability to find a hog. Each breeder had to be of the best quality. I did not attach myself to the females as I did with the males. Sometimes I bred the females on their first heat cycle and then moved them and sometimes the second. Once I had so many generations I only bred when I needed a few pups.

I guess I really didn't answer your question. Sometimes the dogs die from heat exhaustion or by a bad hog and that makes the decision for us.

[Noah]

For some reason I have an easier time putting a price on a horse than a dog...

I got one horse left that will never be sold...

Wrapping my head around excess dogs is bothering me though..

[TColt]

Man, I was in the same delimma as you not long ago (and still somewhat am). I had someone make an offer on my Lacy dog that is more than I think she is worth, more than I have ever heard of a woods dog be sold for, and more than I got in her (including vet bills and food). I never in my wildest dreams thought someone would offer somthing like that and I tossed and turned nights thinking about what to do. I ended up keeping her, and still stay up thinkng about calling the guy.

My advice is that if you are going to second guess yourself I would keep her. The thought of someone driving off with my dog makes me sick, but then again its alot of money upfront and I could buy an entire pack with it. But I still got her and imagine I will till she dies in the yard of old age (since one vet trip she aint been cut, shes never on the IL). Dont know if Ill ever get another dog like her.

[uglydog]

Once you sell the dog it belongs to them to do as they please. treat it as they please, feed if they want to, or not. Usually U will find the good people you know are already got there hands full of there own dogs. I am attached to many of my dogs after putting so many valuable hours into them, its real hard to just send them down the road with somebody that may sale them them or neglect them. I have given away many more dogs than I have sold. Some finished dogs to people so they could hunt into their (dogs) senior years which they would not get to do for me while I am working young dogs, and training.  I have had many dogs go into old age, my old Dodge dog is going blind now, but I have never quit hunting him only semi retired him. When I get the oppertunity some of the younger fellas that have hunted with us for awhile, and I know that they have picked up on how I like my dogs cared for, what I expect and and comfortable that they will go through the trouble and take care of th dogs like I will or know that they atleast Man enough to call me and admit they can't take care of them and will get the dog to me, Then I will place dogs with them, its hard decision, but makes me happy when I see the dogs being care for and hunting well for others. I don't give dogs to people looking for handouts or that I don't know how they take care of their dogs. Sometimes I sell a dog and that has helped me to get to know folks and I am happy to fix them up with dogs from there on out, because I get valuable feed back for breeding/raising that line in the future. There is not a right answer as this is the deal you wil run into if you breed and keep any pups, AND CARE ABOUT THEM DEEPLY,  its a catch 22 unless you always selling dogs and if thats the case guess we shall see you on the dog trade  

[halfbreed]

noah the most enjoyment i have is watching my young dogs starting out and becoming hog or cow dogs it is a passion of mine for many years now ,with that said the second most enjoyment i have is being able to do what i love and have it support it's self with out becoming a burden to me my only asvise is to think about what you want to do , you want to raise and train puppys on a regular basis you gonna have to sell . me i've never made money on dogs but i do break even [sometimes ] at the end of the year.

[Scott]

I've always had a young horse or two in the field, I train a bit here and there when I have time because I enjoy it... after a year or two, I sell it and use the money to buy another colt... never like letting go, but you can't keep them all...

As I have begun to raise my own dogs, I am running into the same dilemma....  As new generations come along, I find myself more interested in the training aspect of things than just overall numbers of hogs caught...  With this, my more mature dogs become more of a hinderance to me than a help...

... I cannot, as much as I'd like to, keep all the animals I train.  Quite simply, I just don't have the time to hunt them all... as much as I wish I did.

While you didn't specify...it would seem that it is not the exact same dilemma. Are those colts that you are training and then moving along ones that you have produced?

Either way, you have to make the decision as to what is best for you. It may mean that you have to space your breedings a little further apart, or doing some serious screening when you decide to move a dog....

[Noah]

One of the dogs I gave away, Chub, is one of the more productive dogs I have produced... she's with one of my rancher's grandsons... he calls me from time to time to tell me about another good hog she's bayed up for them... makes me feel good thinking about that dog being there to teach them how to hunt, and take care of them.. almost like a piece of me is in the woods with them, even when I can't actually be there....

I guess I feel better about givin' a dog to a kid that just wants to hunt than about anything else... sure would be nice to make some money back, but the type of person that would give that kind of money is most likely not the type of person I'd want the dog to go to...

... I don't know...

Thanks for the thoughts...

[ironheadknls21]

 Noah, you could get references from some people on who to send dogs to and sell them at a discount if they will sign a contract to your specifications......just a thought.......

[Noah]

Yeah I thought about that.... in this sport though.. it's easy for a dog to "disappear"

[ironheadknls21]

 Yeah i hear ya, if was gonna do something like that i would at least have to know the person giving the reference pretty well........

[zachW]

Noah i have only been hunting for two years but when i first started i spent alot of money on useless dogs, and almost quit hunting.  But a man i hardly knew gave me a catch dog that was amazing, and later on a mt curr that is young but is good.  The catch dog is great still got him gave me a vest to go with him.  That's why i still hunt because that guy helped me out when i was about ready to quit.  U know there's bunch of young guys getting I'n that want still be I'n at new years, but the ones that are struggling trying to get started the right guy giving them a hand sure makes a difference.

[Reuben]

... when you turn loose of an animal you've put that much time into, a piece of yourself goes with it... putting a price on that can cause mixed emotions to say the least...

I was in the same place where you are now some time ago...Once I made up my mind to breed a line of dogs I got real lucky and a once in a lifetime dog was born in my back yard right off the bat. Back in 1990 or so if someone laid down 5000 dollars or more in my hand for that dog I wouldn't have taken it because the way I saw it at that time was simple. I could sell the dog but the great pleasure of hunting behind that dog would be gone and no amount of money could replace that dog or feeling. The only way I could of sold him is if that 5000 dollars could of saved a childs life of paid a tuition for my child to finish his/her education. It would have to be something worth more than just money.

Even though this was the best dog I ever had I also knew he was open bred so instead of focusing on getting my program built around him I chose one of his sons to build the strain and still have some of that great dogs genes in the mix.


When replacing dogs you have to use sound reasoning as to what are the most valuable dogs to keep for the betterment of the strain and not just see the dog as a keeper because he is your best for hunting because that dog may not be the best for the breeding program.

Once you are somewhat satisfied with the dogs you have you can slow down the breeding and cull even harder when replacing a dog that is getting old, or, you can breed a litter every now and then for a just in case situation.

Another thing to do is to breed a litter of pups and give them away to a few good folks that appreciate a good pup with the understanding that if the said dog turns out that you have breeding rights for 1 or 2 litters...Just remember that just because you have a great line of dogs does not mean that others like that type of hunting dog. And be very careful as to who gets pups because some folks just don't value a good dog...

I can talk about it pretty easily now but it took many hours of thought just to come up with this way of thinking and doing things...

[Noah]

Zach, that's exactly the type of person I like giving a dog to... problem is, it's hard to find a young person that has focus these days... man I sound old 

Reuben, truth be told, I'd like to accelarate my breeding program big time... I LOVE pickin' dogs out to reproduce.... I just need to win the lottery to afford to do it .... 

[Amokabs]

I know Johnson bulldogs aint looked at by some as workers, but I was raising them before hogs moved onto my land. Luckily, I was able to call John D Johnson my best friend for the last 5 years of his life. 20 years ago, he had a fella offer him 10,000 dollars for his top stud dog , at the time. John D turned it down. A neighbor asked him if it was true, that he'd turned down 10,000$ for a dog. He further asked wat in the world was John D thinkin!!!
John D replied" i'd rather b known for owning a 10,000$ dog, as opposed to have been the guy that sold one for 10,000$"
When you posted your dilemma, it brought that story to my mind.

[Noah]

Very true 

[Chelcee]

Once you sell the dog it belongs to them to do as they please. treat it as they please, feed if they want to, or not. Usually U will find the good people you know are already got there hands full of there own dogs. I am attached to many of my dogs after putting so many valuable hours into them, its real hard to just send them down the road with somebody that may sale them them or neglect them. I have given away many more dogs than I have sold. Some finished dogs to people so they could hunt into their (dogs) senior years which they would not get to do for me while I am working young dogs, and training.  I have had many dogs go into old age, my old Dodge dog is going blind now, but I have never quit hunting him only semi retired him. When I get the oppertunity some of the younger fellas that have hunted with us for awhile, and I know that they have picked up on how I like my dogs cared for, what I expect and and comfortable that they will go through the trouble and take care of th dogs like I will or know that they atleast Man enough to call me and admit they can't take care of them and will get the dog to me, Then I will place dogs with them, its hard decision, but makes me happy when I see the dogs being care for and hunting well for others. I don't give dogs to people looking for handouts or that I don't know how they take care of their dogs. Sometimes I sell a dog and that has helped me to get to know folks and I am happy to fix them up with dogs from there on out, because I get valuable feed back for breeding/raising that line in the future. There is not a right answer as this is the deal you wil run into if you breed and keep any pups, AND CARE ABOUT THEM DEEPLY,  its a catch 22 unless you always selling dogs and if thats the case guess we shall see you on the dog trade  

i agree...man i thought I was getting to attached to mine since i feel this way..