Religion...

[Reuben]

Your bring up an interesting point miss Ashley... "how to start a kid" 

... I have a 5yo daughter that goes to church most every Sunday(unless she's out hunting/fishing with daddy), and goes to a Christian school... I cannot deny the model of a "christian upbringing" provides a good platform to shape a moral mind...

... of course, I remind her that there are many, many different beliefs about it.... but until the end, I will encourage her to come to an understanding of it for herself, not just because one way has been pushed upon her....

smart thinking Mr. Noah...it is called laying down a good foundation...

[Reuben]

For the record, all most "religious folks" have to go by(and base their entire existence from) is that which has been recorded in the BRIEF history of humankind's ability to "record" said knowledge in writing...   all of about 5000yrs...  writing, and quickly thereafter, the description of religion occured somewhere around the 2500-3000BC period in the area that our known Bible comes from....

Archeological evidence supports the FACT that there were obvious religious establishments 40-50 THOUSAND years prior to the Egyptian's/Mesopatamian's invention of written record...

The abitity to record, read, and distribute the notions of religion spread the idea like wildfire.... allowing the masses immediate access to something that others had been privy to think about extensively... most of which(uneducated average humans) took immediately as fact and continued to teach each consecutive generation the same.... regardless if it was Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew....etc....

"Does this mean that what was described was the one and only truth?"

If you say yes, then, had you been born in a Muslim country you would be routing for Hezbollah right now and you would smile every time a christian was killed... you would have never questioned the possibility that you might have been taught wrong....

Close minded(the mind of a child) people accept what is apparent, not necessarily what is.

THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD...

I want to explain my interpretation of the pen and sword with an example...

There once was a mighter warrior that was famous in his era. He was the mightiest of the mighty but no one documented with pen and paper. After a few years he will be forgotten...

Another warrior comes along and he is a great warrior but only half as good as the other warrior but someone writes about him along with his great feats...so who will be remembered?

Those that write usually are biased and we are getting their perception or side of the story...

[leonriverboy]

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23, 

None is righteous, no, not one, no one understands; no one seeks for God.  All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery and the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3: 10-18, 

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23, 

For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died fornthe ungodly. For one wil scarcely die for a righteous person--though perhaps for a good person one would even to die--but God shows his love for us.
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the
wrath of God.  For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much
more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by, his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God
through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. Romans 5:6-11

If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1


There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8:1-8

Thank you so much Lord Jesus for saving me, the chief of all sinners, You and I know the horrible acts I committed against you all those years.  I know I only deserve death and hell for what I've done.  But through your Grace alone, certainly not anything I've done you saved me.  I am so grateful that You died and took what I deserved on that horrible cross, I know it should have been me there Lord, I know I should have been me! Thank you Lord Jesus!

[cwhite_25]

"Do you think hog dogs go to heaven? If not I want to go where they go" Anonymous

[dub]

Don't worry about hurting my feelings.  Im just playing devil's advocate here.  discussion isn't much fun when everyone pretty much has the same views.  i'm semi-religious as in i have faith, i pray, and i live my life by a set rules outlined in the bible.  NOW, i've always steered clear of christianity in the sense of education.  I'm not well read on this subject but Hinduism and Buddhism (which is a philosophy and not an actual religion) I am.  I don't believe in seperation of church and state nor do i believe they should withhold the ability of students to pray together at school.  Freedom of religion should swing both ways, not just abolish it because a few people don't believe or worship another deity. Let them remove themselves for that short period of time or gather in the gym together.  BUT, that's a whole other subject.

No worries Dub.

I learned about Buddhism and Hinduism as well as others. I really wanted nothing to do with Christianity. That was because of the judgemental hypocrytes I met at church. I just went looking to find out for myself what was right. I found it through prayer and meditation. I learned meditation while studying Kung Fu. I took what I learned from so many different sources. People want to say all religions are the same but I found something missing from all of them. They all required me to act in a certain manner. I knew there had to be a God that could do it for me.

It was when I prayed "If there is a God out there then do something with my life!" I was lost and angery. I was mad that God could let so many bad things happen. I was on the edge of giving up because in all my searching I figured there was no God but I sure wanted God. It was just a shot into darkness. Then I ended up living in a cow pasture within a week of my challenge to God. I had lost my car and my place to live. I was even angerier so I looked up and prayed, "What else can happen?" The next day it rained and flooded my storage room and I lost everything. All of my pictures from around he world, everything. I was so angery and I started to meditate. I realized that I had asked God to do something with my life and God did. I asked what else could happen and God answered. I decided to stop challenging God and start listening. It would take a book to go through what I learned in that cow pasture but I learned there was a God that heard my prayers and answered if I listened. But God did not have a name. I reviewed all I had learned from religions and people but did not know anything that knew the God I knew. I went to what I call fringe churches. The churches that said they knew God the the most and would tell me. But they did not know the God I know. So I decided that my worship should be to serve people. Do things for other people without getting anything for myself. I was still homeless but started serving others to serve my God. Today I see people serving others that are in need. They only help people "lower" than them and do not help the rise above them. I helped people that had more than me. I have never found any church that does that.

But someone had given me a Bible so I decided to just open the Bible and read a little bit. I started reading words that described how I knew to serve God. I kept finding what I knew about God in red letters. So I asked someone why some words were in red. I was told the red letters are what Jesus said. So then I knew that Jesus knew the same God I knew. I kept hearing people say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." So I found that story in the Bible and read it. I pointed that jesus then said to "go and sin no more." So I knew people were getting it wrong by the way they used. But for some reason that story kept bugging me. I have learned that God teaches me with things that just keep bugging me so I find out more. But I kept looking at the fact that the woman was brought out to be stoned to death for adultery. I started reading more of the Bible but that Old Testament was hard to read. Finally I came across the laws in the Old Testament about adultery and knew God had been trying to teach me. Because the law says if there is adultery both the man and the woman must be put to death. In the story about Jesus there was only the woman so where was the man? I learned that Jesus was trying to teach people that we can't enforce God's law because we change things to do what we think is right. I also started verifying the New Testament with the Old Testament. Then it started to make more sense.

So many people want to pull a verse out and start preaching without refering to what is before and after it. They also fail to understand where it came from in the Old Testament. I get upset when I see the New Testament handed out. Because it is useless with the Old Testament. I do not follow the Bible but I take what people say and filter it through the Bible. I was at a church when some man started trying to enlighten people. I knew he was off when he said that love was not the most important thing because I have read the Bible. I knew love was important but Jesus explained why it was the most important. When the man started saying stuff I knew they were things the devil had said in the Bible. Oh they sound real good and pull you just off the path a little. So I believe the Bible helps me to defend what I know in my heart. But even without the Bible I know what God wants. God wants me to love my neighbor as myself and do everything in love.

Just to be clear I do not care who I offend. Because I those that follow God should not be offended. But the man that was teaching the wrong things kept looking at me like he knew that I knew what he was saying was wrong. Instead of taking questions he left out of the back of the stage area. I think when God is in your heart it is scarry to those that don't know God. That is why Christianity is attacked.

[Noah]

"I think when God is in your heart it is scary to those that don't know God."   .... well said Dub....

I've met a lot of high fallootin' people(even pastors) at church that ran like a whipped dog when I start ta askin' questions...  

.... may sound silly, but I can usually see it in the eye...

[Noah]

.... Many cultures trying to describe similar stories... and each, individually, thinking theirs is the only true account...

... Food for thought...  I present to you, "The Epic of Gilgamesh"... or should I say, a comparison of "flood stories" between it and the Bible... interesting similarities to say the least...


Here's an excellent site that illustrates all perspectives on the subject.... 
http://www.religioustolerance.org/noah_com.htm

[TColt]

Haven't had a chance to read this whole thread yet, got a late start and am only only page two, about to hit the sack for the night but wanted to throw something out there.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but for people who have a hard time believing the bible, since it was put on paper by man ( gods inspired word ). Read the book of revelations. Talks about the end times, might as well be a timeline for what is going on in the world these days. Very interesting to read also, believer or not. Tell me what other religions lay it out so accurately?

Noah, I remember reading in another thread that you started "cowboying around ;a lasting impression", I really think you should pick it up and finish it.

Its all about faith, it's not something you sit down and explain. That's why it's called fsith. you are saved by faith and not knowledge. In my opinion from what I have gotten from scripture, if you don't believe all of it, there ain't much of a point to believe any of it. It's an all or nothing deal, you either have faith and give your life into gods hands or you don't.

I'm done for the night, I'm going to keep reading the thread and hopefully touch on the subject some more when I'm done.

[TColt]

Dub, you really have a way with words and a great testimony! I don't think I could say anything about this subject better than you already have.