Religion...

[SCHitemHard]

that was deep, i think we need to have a bible study here

[djhogdogger]

 Its too deep at this end of the pool. So I will simplify..... if we live right, we will die right. 

[Reuben]

Noah,

First off, let me ask, and meaning no offense.  With your daring, bring out your best, almost taunting approach is it the truth you seek or perhaps just a good argument?

I can give you my personal interpretation and the way I believe Genesis 6:4 is to be understood, but it would be just that.  I don't care the level of understanding of any theologian...there is not currently nor will there ever be any human being who can completely comprehend and understand all that is taught in God's Word.  Looking at it from a scientific approach the same can be said for even the world's most achieved scientists and renowned thinkers (including those who study merely in attempt to disprove).  I believe this to be God's intent.

Faith to me is much like the air I breathe.  I can't see it, but I can take a deep breath, blow in the palm of my hand and feel it's presence and know it's there.  I also know that without it, I cannot live.

Noah, in many ways you remind me much of myself.  A very strong willed person, who forms your own opinions not simply based on what someone says, but rather what you can prove or disprove.  You believe you are in control...you call your own shots and you have life by the horns.  Well let me just tell you from personal experience that God has a way of breaking people like you and I.  Maybe not now, maybe not tomorrow or even in the near future but there will come a time that you will realize that you're not in as much control as you believe you are and you do need the guidance that only God can give.  (Very hard concept for me personally, because I am a control freak who tends to believe that no one knows best for me except for me).  Interesting that this topic comes up at the same time I made the post about being frustrated.  When I really think it through, you know why I'm really frustrated? Because I had a plan...I had things all worked out the way I think they should have been and things just continue it seems to go to heck and it just isn't working out the way I think it should have.

You can take me for my word, or you can choose to blow me off....you're choice, but I speak from personal experience here man!

I'll leave you with one of my favorite verses and one I reflect on often.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths" (Proverbs 3:5,6)

As much as I like research...and as much as I like to prove or disprove an idea or theory there just sometimes comes a time when you have to take something at face value and simply believe....that's called faith.

Let me also say that often people say they don't hear God, or that God doesn't speak to them.  I question if they ever really take the time to listen.  When I refer to God speaking, I'm not necessarily refering to speaking in an audible sense.  I believe God speaks and shows us things all the time...perhaps through someone else, maybe by nature or even by something we see or hear.  Now if we choose to listen or not, that's our decision.  God will never force himself on you, but I believe he will definately get your attention!

Bryant...that's exactly how I see it...yes indeed, and you were describing me...and you have a beautiful way of explaining it.

and from reading your previous posts I venture to say we see eye to eye when it comes to breeding better dogs as well as training and guiding/exposing the dogs to what we hunt...

[Reuben]

I love this song...Hank Williams wrote it and sang it but alcohol and drugs still got him...His promoters cared more about making the money than trying to save him...

http://youtu.be/AZsO5_CL6DQ

[shankem]

I love this song...Hank Williams wrote it and sang it but alcohol and drugs still got him...His promoters cared more about making the money than trying to save him...

http://youtu.be/AZsO5_CL6DQ

I was raised on that song and I'll fly away. Amazing grace was my Daddy Joe's favorite; I cried when I listened. Been along time!

[Heaven Sent Kennel]

http://doctor.claudemariottini.com/2006/03/rereading-genesis-64-were-they-really.html

Hey Noah here is a little bit on Genesis 6:4 for ya. It also talks about translations. I'm still studying up on this and another Good ol' boy I know is looking deeper. You can't really go deep with just one verse. You often have to look in front of and behind of to make the middle verses make any sence.

Here's a lil more.

Genesis 6:4



"Giants" is the Hebrew word nephilim, which has little or nothing to do with being tall and muscular but refers to cultural leadership. God is describing the culture immediately before the Flood. Nephilim has to be seen in that context. These Nephilim—giants not in size but in influence—were establishing evil, deceitful, violent, and enslaving leadership. They were "men of renown," which literally means they were men of name. In other words, they had a reputation, but that term is used in a derogatory sense. These were not good characters



Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/142/eVerseID/142#ixzz1Y2p56nLY

[Wmwendler]

I agree with others.  It does not matter so much about where you go to church as it does how you live your life on a day to day basis.  God does not wait only for those that congregate.  Shoot a good ole cowboy church under a tent or in a small town rodeo arena is just a good to me as anywhere else.  Sure beats the heck out of those big mega churches that cost millions.

Waylon 

[Noah]

Thankyou for the reply Bryant, well thought out.

For the record, this is not brought up for the sake of argument.... it is brought up to help myself and others understand better what is REAL in our religious life. 


HeavenSent, thankyou for looking into it, I look forward to your thoughts on the subject... the literal translation of what "nephilim" was is beside the point however... the fact is, the bible states that ANGELS had children with HUMANS.... a subject that most "representatives of religion" chose to talk circles around(as I was taught to...) or ignore it alltogether...

The FACT remains however.... especially if you subscribe to the notion that every last fiber of your faith is based on said book... 

It is my opinion that the reason for the "avoidance behaviour" demonstrated to me over and over again throughout the yrs, is the result of men trying like hell no to admit the similarities between many of the Bible's stories and those of humanity.... most of which were documented WAAAAY before the Jews showed up... 

Does that make the Jews/Christians wrong?  Of course not.   But I feel it is infinitely arrogant to believe that we are the first to "figure it out"... and even more, that "our way is the only way".... Pull your head out of the sand and open your eyes....



I have many more thoughts on this subject, unfortunately, I see those who might have real insight on such subjects prefer to avoid educated, respectful discussion....   So I guess I will just continue to say what so many are afraid to...



 

[dub]

Noah. Just to be clear. I did not rely on any book to find God. Just the opposite. I also did not find God in a church. First I just did a lot praying and God answered. I found God in a cow pasture. It was not until I found God that the Bible made any sense. The Bible is not one book it is sixty six books. Thirty nine books are called the Old Testament and those are Jewish not Christian. They give an understanding of the books in the New Testament that contains twenty seven books. After I found God I could not get enough of the Bible. I do not like to use the Bible when talking to most people because I do not believe God is found in the Bible I believe the Bible is where you learn to understand God.

I do not believe you have to read the Bible to go to Heaven. I do not believe you have to get Baptized. I do not think you have to be a good person or live a good life. Why because it says so in the Bible. Where? When Jesus was hung on the cross. There were three men on crosses that day. Two of them went to Heaven. One was Jesus. The other was a thief. But he accepted Jesus as his Savior. The words are in the Bible. But it is the actions I look at. The thief in his darkest hour asked for Jesus to let him go to Heaven. There more to it if you want to really think. The only problem with asking Jesus to be your Savior at the last moment is that you don't know when that will be.

The words of Jesus in John 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Church is for sinners not saints. If you want to find God then look inside your heart. You find God with your spirit. It is not magic but it sure feels like a miracle. I can't type on here what you need. but if you PM me your number I will call you and we can talk as long as you want on my dime. I am always happy to tell people how God changed me and how I found God. I love to tell people how they can do it too. I don't tell people to go to church to find God. but find a church that worshios how you do. But really just shoot me a PM and I will call. Just tell me a good time and I will share the God I know with anyone.

[Noah]

Thanks dub, I appreciate the sentiment... but you are still missing my point... I am not asking to be saved.... again.   I have a VERY clear understanding of what God is to me...

I am past that point.  I am on to the deeper understanding of how the Bible fits into the true religion of the entire history of human kind.

[dub]

I am not talking about being saved. The thief on the cross was saved. I am talking about how to know God. How do you live for God? I spent lots of time thinking about those things. God gave me the time and place because I was seeking God with all my heart. It sounds like that is what you are doing. I do not have the answers. I just have the questions. I think the right questions get the right answers. But what God wants from me and what God wants from you can be completely different. That is why I like to talk about it. It helps me as much as anyone.

The part that bothered me was after God had changed me so much I was still aggressive and confrontational. I am still rough around the edges. But I think God wants me that way. I spent time talking with many people. I had some good conversations at Pat Robertson's house. I did not get much from him but the other people around him. I did not think him or any of his people knew God better than me. In fact many people were impressed by my understanding. My friends did not know how I got invited to meet so many people. But I hope that in some way they are better for it. But talking and asking each other questions I know helped me. We do have different definitions for what BBQ is

[POTTER]

Noah,
 You are definitely a thinker, I  was once a thinker like you, now let me tell you how I became a believer. I will try to make this short as possible. I grew up in church, it was crammed down my throat, at 15 years old I rebeled, I was going to do it my way, i was calling the shots. Five years ago I was partying and I was in a gas fire, I burned for about fifteen seconds they said, I had third degree burns on forty percent of my body, they gave me thirty percent chance to live. If you dont believe in heaven or hell there is, I was in a drug induced coma to ease the pain. The way i was living my life caught up to me, i was laying in my death bed looking at three demons floating on the wall looking down at me ready to take me to hell, they were freaky looking and ugly as hell.Thank God for prayer warriors, My family and friends prayed for God to save my sorry butt, (thats what separates faith from religion) and God answered there prayers. I was in the burn unit for three months recovering learning how to walk and eat again. And yes sir, their are definitely angels too, when I was recovering and overwhelmed by pain I had this peaceful, calming presence that would be by my bedside that I called my chilling angel that would give me comfort. thats when I turned back to God, he saved my butt and I thank him everyday for it. So my point I am trying to make is, yes, religion is manmade, you made your point,  faith in God is from the heart, its indescribable, but i know what i saw and know what I believe. Brother, I had to go through hell to get to heaven, when its your time to go theirs no second chance, know him. God Bless!

[tnhillbilly]

Great testimony potter,

Dub, you were blessed with having a way with words.

[ked]

Who says the term "sons of God" must be defined or translated as angels?

[ked]

Also the idea that mythology and the like was written before the OT is not truth though represented as truth. A great debate for historians which I am not. I have heard the apologists from both sides.

[jimco]

Here you go Noah, another place I frequent that gives me a feeling of God's presence. I don't go to church but every time I visit these
places I feel God's presence and the presence of my Cajun [Acadien] ancestors who hunted , fished, and worked in these swamps since the mid 1700's. My faith is strengthened every time I visit these places. As I said earlier I don't believe in organize religion but I just have to believe in God after visiting these magnificent  places.   

[dub]

Just today I said I was a missionary and the place I go to save people is church. It is the staff that needs the help. I work so hard to reach them. I tell anybody that I found God in a cow pasture. I found judgmental hypocrites in church and figured they needed saving. When I need time with God I prefer to avoid people.

But what did Jesus say? Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

If you want to find God go away from people and pray. I like to pray in the shower. It is the only place I don't hear the kids. There is no place you can't find God. But you need to be doing it for you not for people to see how good you are. Good people don't go to heaven saved people do. Three crosses two people went to heaven.

[Noah]

Jimco, I feel you.   Excellent description of what is, not what you've been taught...

So many people get so caught up in details they forget to look at the big picture... not to mention what is smacking them in the head.... 

Forget what you have been taught, be open to understand what is.

[dabutcher]

For me personally it's foolish to follow something so blindly that was put into print by men/women who are just as flawed as you or i.  one of the of the most profound statements i've ever heard came from my h.s. anatomy and physiology teacher "Question Everything"....nothing is "just" what it seems.  that's how i go about my religious beliefs and daily life in general. 

[Reuben]

For me personally it's foolish to follow something so blindly that was put into print by men/women who are just as flawed as you or i.  one of the of the most profound statements i've ever heard came from my h.s. anatomy and physiology teacher "Question Everything"....nothing is "just" what it seems.  that's how i go about my religious beliefs and daily life in general. 

I was born questioning everything...sometimes that kept me in trouble..

I do know that the older I get the more I realize how brilliant those writers were...Those writers understood human nature and wrote accordingly...