Religion...

[rdjustham]

My belief is this, and Noah if you didnt get stoned Im sure i will but here goes:

I belief there is an element beyond our control.  I personally believe in God, however I have my doubts about the bible.  For no other reason than this.  Did you ever play "the telephone game" as a kid?  The bible is a bunch of books written by different people all who wrote stories heard from someone else, in languages that needed to be translated and for the most part are no longer in existance.  Now fast forwarded a few hundred years and look at the King James version.  Written for a king so he could divorce his wife, so yet another version as someone interpreted it.  I try to live my life by this poem:

The Policeman stood and faced his God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining as brightly as his brass.
"Step forward now, officer. How shall I deal with You?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To my Church have you been true?"
The officer squared his shoulders and said,
"No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
Cause those of us who carry badges can't always be a saint.
But I never took a penny that wasn't mine to keep,
Though I worked a lot of overtime when the bills just got too steep.
And I never passed a cry for help, though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God forgive me, I wept unmanly tears.
I know I don't deserve a place among the people here.
They never wanted me around except to calm their fear.
If you've a place for me here, Lord, it needn't be so grand.
I've never expected or had too much.
But if you don't, I'll understand."
There was silence all around the throne where the saints had often trod.
As the officer waited quietly for the answer of his God.
"Step forward now, Officer, you've borne your burdens well.
Come walk  a beat on Heaven's Streets. You've done your time in Hell."

-Author Unknown

 

[Noah]

Good stuff men... enjoying the thoughts

[hogaholicswife]

I will expand hopefully when I get home but the 'telephone' analogy is the way I see it.....there are so many different religions IMO because some where along the line 'some one' didnt agree with a particular way the Good Book was being followed / spoke and formed their own Religion with their beliefs and ways.

I have enjoyed what little I have been able to thumb through....its a heated topic in our family and most of the time I am the one stirring the pot if you will with my beliefs and what was instilled on me as a child.



....to be continued

[-JB-]

To me religion has just turned into something else for people to argue about. My whole life depends on faith...but I've always wondered how Jesus would feel about these big lavish churches that cost more than most will make there entire life.  I feel that if you believe Jesus died and rose  for our sins and "that who so ever believes in him shall not parish and will have everlasting life" then you are my brother.  I believe Jesus said it best " you are either with me or you are against me" (Luke 11:23).  That's just how I feel.

i totally agree with u Jared H 110 % and the only one that is 100% perfect is Jesus Christ and we are all sinners that come short of the glory of God and we need to repent of our sins!!! God created every thing and will end every thing in his perfect timing

[dub]

For me personally it's foolish to follow something so blindly that was put into print by men/women who are just as flawed as you or i.  one of the of the most profound statements i've ever heard came from my h.s. anatomy and physiology teacher "Question Everything"....nothing is "just" what it seems.  that's how i go about my religious beliefs and daily life in general. 

It is not following a book. Follow God not a book. God's law is in every person's heart no matter if we deny it. The book is useless to anyone that does not follow God. That is not an accident. Follow flawed men? I follow Jesus and Jesus was not flawed.

While I respect other religions I look at it this way. The major religions fellow the teachings of a person. I will pick two but I bet any other religion you will see follows the same guidelines.

Jews follow the teachings of Abraham you can visit the burial place in the Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank where Abraham is burried. It is considered Holy also by Christians and Muslims.

Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. The Islamic prophet Muhammad is buried in the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi (Mosque of the Prophet) in the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia.

However unlike all of the other religions Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You don't need to go to the tomb because it is empty. I follow a living Savior not a book, a grave, or anything else.

[tnhillbilly]

AMEN!!!!!

[preacher1]

There is no doubt that religion is rotten. I am a christian. I believe all of the Bible. I do not understand it all,nor can I explain it all. Anyone who says they can explain it all is just arrogant. I believe there are some things that we could not handle. I believe there are people who will ride a church pew straight into the flames of hell.I am a Baptist preacher, but that is not why I'm a christian. I do believe Jesus is the way,and the only way to heaven. I know most dont want to hear the Bible . How do you talk about spiritual things without going to the Word? I believe it answers the most pertinent questions we as people should know. Where did we and all this creation come from? What are we doing here? and Where are we going? Most all who have commented here believe in God. The Bible says "the devils believe and tremble ".They won't be in heaven. You cannot rationalize spiritual matters. How do you rationalize the Red Sea crossing? Some have said it was the Reed Sea only ankle deep. That takes more faith to believe because then you have to believe that the entire Egyptian army drowned in ankle deep water.To believe God created the heavens and the earth with nothing more than His words. Or that Jesus was born of a virgin? It takes faith. Withou it we cannot please God. Believing in things we cannot see or touch ? No logic can be applied to that. But the Bible has been proven. Even here much reference has been given to nature and God. That doesn't surprise me ,"the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament sheweth his handiwork." Why go to the Bible for answers? Fulfilled prophecies past and present.archaeological proofs have been and are discovered regularly. It has been preserved for us because it is profitable.
  Noah , you asked about Gen 6:4. You said "the Bible states that ANGELS had children with HUMANS" Well it doesn't say that it says "the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and the bare children to them". That is the descendants of Seth intermarrying and having children with the descendants of Cain. Dont change what God says ,that's what Satan did in the garden to deceive Eve "Ye shalt not surely die".No where does the Bible say that sons of God are angels. That's those religious people you were talking. My beliefs are based on the Bible not on my ability to rationalize or blindly accept what some teacher has passed on as so much religious jibberish. I don't blame people for not wanting to go to church or believe the Bible.Look at what man has done to what is supposed to be good. Religion makes me sick and for the most part what we see today is making God sick.There isFaith , Hope,and Love and the greatest of these is love.Prayerfully submitted.



   

[TexasHogDogs]

There is no doubt that religion is rotten. I am a christian. I believe all of the Bible. I do not understand it all,nor can I explain it all. Anyone who says they can explain it all is just arrogant. I believe there are some things that we could not handle. I believe there are people who will ride a church pew straight into the flames of hell.I am a Baptist preacher, but that is not why I'm a christian. I do believe Jesus is the way,and the only way to heaven. I know most dont want to hear the Bible . How do you talk about spiritual things without going to the Word? I believe it answers the most pertinent questions we as people should know. Where did we and all this creation come from? What are we doing here? and Where are we going? Most all who have commented here believe in God. The Bible says "the devils believe and tremble ".They won't be in heaven. You cannot rationalize spiritual matters. How do you rationalize the Red Sea crossing? Some have said it was the Reed Sea only ankle deep. That takes more faith to believe because then you have to believe that the entire Egyptian army drowned in ankle deep water.To believe God created the heavens and the earth with nothing more than His words. Or that Jesus was born of a virgin? It takes faith. Withou it we cannot please God. Believing in things we cannot see or touch ? No logic can be applied to that. But the Bible has been proven. Even here much reference has been given to nature and God. That doesn't surprise me ,"the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament sheweth his handiwork." Why go to the Bible for answers? Fulfilled prophecies past and present.archaeological proofs have been and are discovered regularly. It has been preserved for us because it is profitable.
  Noah , you asked about Gen 6:4. You said "the Bible states that ANGELS had children with HUMANS" Well it doesn't say that it says "the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and the bare children to them". That is the descendants of Seth intermarrying and having children with the descendants of Cain. Dont change what God says ,that's what Satan did in the garden to deceive Eve "Ye shalt not surely die".No where does the Bible say that sons of God are angels. That's those religious people you were talking. My beliefs are based on the Bible not on my ability to rationalize or blindly accept what some teacher has passed on as so much religious jibberish. I don't blame people for not wanting to go to church or believe the Bible.Look at what man has done to what is supposed to be good. Religion makes me sick and for the most part what we see today is making God sick.There isFaith , Hope,and Love and the greatest of these is love.Prayerfully submitted.



   

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee now thats some real truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Noah]

Ahhh, thankyou preacher1... excellent dissertation of what you believe, and I agree with much of it.

However, you know(or maybe you should know) that there is much dissagreement with Gen 6:4....  As stated before, I have gone to a pre-eminent student of Hebrew translation about this.

Just so you realize, I am not out to "disprove" anything, he concurred with the AMAZING accuracy of even our late translations of the Bible... somehow, many would attribute "divine" intervention, the original stone/parchment texts have been PRECISELY translated and recorded for a LONG time.... TRULY amazing.

The aformentioned script is one of said accurately translated and described. 

As you said, no one understands, nor most likely ever will, what "really" happened between God and man over the course of human history...

The Bible is meant to give "a mental picture" of what that might be... but I do not believe it(the Bible) is the end all and be all of the understanding of our God.

Thankyou for your thoughts preacher

[Noah]

Noah I can explain how all those fallen angel offspring were killed in the flood, I can explain where Cain got his wife,I can explain how there were other peoples outside the garden of Eden all the while Adam and Eve where in it. I can explain 100 different technical issues about Biblical history. But that's stuff for the theologians to argue over, not unlike the Pharisees and Sadducees did back then and wouldn't bring you one tenth of step closer, The bible is a spiritual book, hidden from some as it says. I have no ambitions to try and convert you, the way I honestly believe either you are bound for salvation and God will see it come to pass or you are not. I believe in the doctrine of election in so much as to say what I said here. I know unless God begins to draw your heart no words from my mouth would do any good.

God Bless, Waylon

preacher1, Mr. Waylon seems like a pretty hard boiled egg on this subject, if you know what I mean.... How do you 'spose he came to this understanding of how to "explain away" highlighted text above?

[dabutcher]

For me personally it's foolish to follow something so blindly that was put into print by men/women who are just as flawed as you or i.  one of the of the most profound statements i've ever heard came from my h.s. anatomy and physiology teacher "Question Everything"....nothing is "just" what it seems.  that's how i go about my religious beliefs and daily life in general. 

It is not following a book. Follow God not a book. God's law is in every person's heart no matter if we deny it. The book is useless to anyone that does not follow God. That is not an accident. Follow flawed men? I follow Jesus and Jesus was not flawed.

While I respect other religions I look at it this way. The major religions fellow the teachings of a person. I will pick two but I bet any other religion you will see follows the same guidelines.

Jews follow the teachings of Abraham you can visit the burial place in the Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank where Abraham is burried. It is considered Holy also by Christians and Muslims.

Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. The Islamic prophet Muhammad is buried in the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi (Mosque of the Prophet) in the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia.

However unlike all of the other religions Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You don't need to go to the tomb because it is empty. I follow a living Savior not a book, a grave, or anything else.

correct me if i'm wrong here but isn't the christian religion based off the bible which in essence just a book....

[Noah]

For the record, all most "religious folks" have to go by(and base their entire existence from) is that which has been recorded in the BRIEF history of humankind's ability to "record" said knowledge in writing...   all of about 5000yrs...  writing, and quickly thereafter, the description of religion occured somewhere around the 2500-3000BC period in the area that our known Bible comes from....

Archeological evidence supports the FACT that there were obvious religious establishments 40-50 THOUSAND years prior to the Egyptian's/Mesopatamian's invention of written record...

The abitity to record, read, and distribute the notions of religion spread the idea like wildfire.... allowing the masses immediate access to something that others had been privy to think about extensively... most of which(uneducated average humans) took immediately as fact and continued to teach each consecutive generation the same.... regardless if it was Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew....etc....

"Does this mean that what was described was the one and only truth?"

If you say yes, then, had you been born in a Muslim country you would be routing for Hezbollah right now and you would smile every time a christian was killed... you would have never questioned the possibility that you might have been taught wrong....

Close minded(the mind of a child) people accept what is apparent, not necessarily what is.

[Reuben]

For the record, all most "religious folks" have to go by(and base their entire existence from) is that which has been recorded in the BRIEF history of humankind's ability to "record" said knowledge in writing...   all of about 5000yrs...  writing, and quickly thereafter, the description of religion occured somewhere around the 2500-3000BC period in the area that our known Bible comes from....

Archeological evidence supports the FACT that there were obvious religious establishments 40-50 THOUSAND years prior to the Egyptian's/Mesopatamian's invention of written record...

The abitity to record, read, and distribute the notions of religion spread the idea like wildfire.... allowing the masses immediate access to something that others had been privy to think about extensively... most of which(uneducated average humans) took immediately as fact and continued to teach each consecutive generation the same.... regardless if it was Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew....etc....

"Does this mean that what was described was the one and only truth?"

If you say yes, then, had you been born in a Muslim country you would be routing for Hezbollah right now and you would smile every time a christian was killed... you would have never questioned the possibility that you might have been taught wrong....

Close minded(the mind of a child) people accept what is apparent, not necessarily what is.

THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD...

[hogaholicswife]

Growing up I spent a lot of time with my grandmother, who was a Baptist.  I was in Sunday School and a Church Pew every single weekend as a young child, I loved it and begged to go with her.  I do not remember a bad sermon ever spoke.

My grandparents went through a nasty divorce and my grandmother suffered many strokes that took a toll on her ability to read and speak but the one book she never put down was her Bible.  I can remember her singing hymns to me while swinging outside underneath the shade of a huge ear tree.  I remember reciting some verses and reading my children’s Bible Books.

I am so thankful that my brother and I were exposed to such a caring God fearing Baptist woman.
Now, as I got older I eventually quit going to Church due to the divorce taking its toll on my grandmother but before she quit going I remember her saying the Church was going in a direction she didn’t like…..but she never put down her Bible. 

My grandmother told me two things in life that I hold dear to my heart:
1.  You hate NO ONE – you can hate the actions they take but you NEVER hate anyone
2.   You do not have to go to Church to be a good person or get into Heaven, all you have to do is have God in your heart and try your hardest to live by his rules….he understands you can make mistakes but you have to learn from them in order to be forgiven.

I didn’t return until I was around 16, again to a Baptist Church.  This Church was different from the one frequented with my grandmother, they didn’t care how you dressed.  The preacher said as long as you was there listening to God’s word he didn’t care if you drug in barefoot and dirty.

I remember once, I had a boyfriend that we were at a friend’s house talking about Religion….he professed that he never knew God and could never believe in an imaginary being, I was shocked as this was the first time I had ever heard someone say that…needless to say we parted ways shortly after that as I couldn’t stand the thought of someone not having God in their heart.

I enjoyed that Church, but I was in my teenage years and had other ‘things’ occupying my Sundays….but I never had a time without God in my heart and there were many Sundays spent on horseback in the middle of a cow pasture  taking in God’s work.

A few years later, I attended a Church in Arcadia with my parents.  It is what some would call a ‘Backwoods Baptist’ Church.    The pastor was young and we had actually grew up with his brother but didn’t know it at the time.  He told of how God didn’t mind if you were in Church every weekend, he understood and you weren’t damned to hell so long as you had him in your heart. 

He spoke of how he came to know God after his older brother had killed himself and he had become a drunk….he said basically God came down and thumped him on the head to wake him up to not living right and he wanted to pass on his testimony.  It was crazy powerful and simply amazing.

Again, years went by and I went to work in the Everglades (literally) where I had nothing but alligators and my dogs to converse with.  I did a whole lot of searching and pondering about life in general….God was never far from my heart.

A few years later I was blessed to meet the Rooks family here in Okeechobee, my husband hunted with their sons.  Again, they are an AMAZING God loving family but they were not without strife and God ‘thumping’ them on the head to make them realize  they needed to change their lives around.

I attended Sunday School every weekend to hear Mr. Rooks and all of those in the class talk / give their testimony.  It was almost like God was thumping me on my head.  I attended regularly but I never stayed for the actual Service as over the years I had drawn my own bias opinion of ‘most’ that attended Church and I didn’t like the ‘if you aren’t present every weekend then you are damned to hell’ that my cousins had drilled in their heads because I had known a different side that didn’t say that.   I finally gave in and attended the sermon, it was just as I had feared. …the one and only sermon I attended was the ‘if you are not here every weekend you shall be damned to hell’ speaking that I so feared.  Sadly, I never returned….I do however miss talking to Mrs. / Mr. Rooks and those in my Sunday School class.

Now, over the years I take the above experiences to the way I turned out and I was able to form my own opinion and interpretation.  I was never in any trouble as a young adult but I did have some ‘set backs’.  I try extremely hard not to be judgemental and to treat everyone with the respect they deserve but with that being said I do not take well to hypocrites.
I feel that most Churches in todays world (NOT ALL OF THEM) have money as an ulterior motive and some people use Religion as a crutch.   Anymore, to me it seems that a Church is run more like a fear mongering business and that is not what I was taught that it was about.

I will honestly say that I have a serious problem with those that only seem to have God in their hearts when it is convenient and will go out Saturday night to tie one on then sit in the Pew on Sunday morning followed up with how I should attend Church so I can go to Heaven….I always politely pass and say my Sunday morning services are most often being held in a cane field in my head.

When I had my son, I found that the older he got the more I found my mother in law using God / Jesus as a fear to keep him from acting a certain way…it always perturbed me that she did it and I always voiced my opinion on how I felt about using God / Jesus as a fear tactic because the God I grew up knowing was a loving forgiving God and I didn’t appreciate the scare tactic but rather explain to him that his behavior wasn’t acceptable in her eyes.

I am not a perfect person by any means, I can peel the paint off the wall and that is probably one of my biggest flaws but I have a love in my heart and a tolerance that I will hands down attribute to my upbringing with God in it.  I cannot quote anything out of the Bible but I absolutely enjoy listening to the Gospel from those who truly know it, live it and who are not out to speak on something they do not believe behind closed doors. 

I can only hope that I can expose my son to the same pure Religion that I had the chance of being exposed to so that he too can make his own decision on how to believe.  He went to a small private Baptist 'home school' that I adored but he is now in Public School and I have failed him in the religous aspects of life over the last two years.  I am hoping that I can get him re-exposed so  that if he can make his own choices about where to go with it as he grows and becomes an adult.  I think we all need God in our life and that is what is wrong with the Country today, we have lost the love and tolerance that alot of those on this board have.

[jdt]

its my beleif that the bible is inspired writing , in other words , god had a hand in putting pen to paper for it .
i don't think anybody understands it all ... in fact i'm sure of that , i think that is the way god planned it .

i don't have all the anwers - heck i don't even know the questions ... BUT I KNOW THE ONE THAT DOES  ,   and thats enough for me .

[Reuben]

its my beleif that the bible is inspired writing , in other words , god had a hand in putting pen to paper for it .
i don't think anybody understands it all ... in fact i'm sure of that , i think that is the way god planned it .

i don't have all the anwers - heck i don't even know the questions ... BUT I KNOW THE ONE THAT DOES  ,   and thats enough for me .

x2

[Noah]

Your bring up an interesting point miss Ashley... "how to start a kid" 

... I have a 5yo daughter that goes to church most every Sunday(unless she's out hunting/fishing with daddy), and goes to a Christian school... I cannot deny the model of a "christian upbringing" provides a good platform to shape a moral mind...

... of course, I remind her that there are many, many different beliefs about it.... but until the end, I will encourage her to come to an understanding of it for herself, not just because one way has been pushed upon her....

[TexasHogDogs]

It all Boils down to Faith !  Either you got it are you don't you will get it are you won't,

[dub]

For me personally it's foolish to follow something so blindly that was put into print by men/women who are just as flawed as you or i.  one of the of the most profound statements i've ever heard came from my h.s. anatomy and physiology teacher "Question Everything"....nothing is "just" what it seems.  that's how i go about my religious beliefs and daily life in general. 

It is not following a book. Follow God not a book. God's law is in every person's heart no matter if we deny it. The book is useless to anyone that does not follow God. That is not an accident. Follow flawed men? I follow Jesus and Jesus was not flawed.

While I respect other religions I look at it this way. The major religions fellow the teachings of a person. I will pick two but I bet any other religion you will see follows the same guidelines.

Jews follow the teachings of Abraham you can visit the burial place in the Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank where Abraham is burried. It is considered Holy also by Christians and Muslims.

Muslims follow the teachings of Muhammed. The Islamic prophet Muhammad is buried in the Al-Masjid al-Nabawi (Mosque of the Prophet) in the city of Medina in Saudi Arabia.

However unlike all of the other religions Christians follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. You don't need to go to the tomb because it is empty. I follow a living Savior not a book, a grave, or anything else.

correct me if i'm wrong here but isn't the christian religion based off the bible which in essence just a book....

The Bible is 64 books. But no Christianity is not based on the the Bible "Christ"ianity started before the Bible was ever put together. Christianity started with the Christ. Those that whitnessed what happened and wrote it down. The reward they got for being a Followere of Christ or a Christian was to be flogged, stonned, and executed. If someone is willing to be tortured and be put to death I think I believe them. Perhaps a Biblical scholar can list off the rewards each disciple recieved. But like I said I found God first all alone in a cow pasture not in the Bible or in a church. I had been to church I read part of the Bible and none of that did anything for me until I had found God.

How did Helen Keller know God before she learned to comunicate? When she was told about her response was "so that is His name." After finding God on my own I looked at many things and religions not just Christianity but none of them made sense. Because I had already looked at Christianity and the Bible it was the last place I looked. I decided to look at the Bible again and it was like a whole knew Bible. As I read I just wanted to read more. But I questioned it and looked for flaws. I found some too and they were quickly explained. Except one in the Book of Job it is in the part that says God spoke. God asks Job if he has jouyneyed to the springs at the bottom of the sea. Everyone knows the sees are filled from rivers, streams, and rain not springs. Oops people wrong again in the galapagos Islands they found freshwater springs too far down for people to reach but subs found them.

How do I know there is a God?

I was a wretched person that even my own family did not want around. I was a high school dropout, a homeless disabled veteran living in a cow pasture. People said I was crazy when I said I was going to law school. BUT NOW I have two college degress, a minor, a certificate and one year of law school. I found God and found happiness and peace inside. Not from around me but inside. Oh life is not honey and cream but inside it sure is. I live in pain everday of my life but do not need drugs to kill the pain. I do not say these things to change your mind because only you can do that. But I will say if you do then God will do the rest.

Do not think I am trying to be rude. But I know the truth and just want people to know that there is hope. I hope that this shows the love I want it to. I would not be a decent human if I did not share how I got joy for the first time ever.

If church does not fit, if the bible does not make sense then go into a room, shut the door and pray. I know for a fact that God will hear you. He heard my prayers even when I was drunk and living a life that made my family ashamed and never turned His back on me even when I turned my back on God. God had all the time in the world and will wait with love. Then the Bible will start to make sense it is not a rule book and you will learn to tolerate the people at church.

At church I look for the angry ones or the the ones that want to hide. I find that they are the ones that know they are being called and are fighting it. I make sure my children learn God's word they may stray but they will have that word in brains and when they search their hearts they will find it again.

I mean all of this in love and welcome the discussion.

[dabutcher]

Don't worry about hurting my feelings.  Im just playing devil's advocate here.  discussion isn't much fun when everyone pretty much has the same views.  i'm semi-religious as in i have faith, i pray, and i live my life by a set rules outlined in the bible.  NOW, i've always steered clear of christianity in the sense of education.  I'm not well read on this subject but Hinduism and Buddhism (which is a philosophy and not an actual religion) I am.  I don't believe in seperation of church and state nor do i believe they should withhold the ability of students to pray together at school.  Freedom of religion should swing both ways, not just abolish it because a few people don't believe or worship another deity. Let them remove themselves for that short period of time or gather in the gym together.  BUT, that's a whole other subject.

No worries Dub.