Cow Breaking

[mod93dirt]

I took my little 11 mo old pup who is just getting started in the woods for a little walk today. It was on my in laws neighbors land which is bout 150ac of woods surrounded by pasture. I have killed a few hogs off this place.

Anyways she is hunting out good 200 yds or so. Then she makes a beeline to 500 yds and I hear her hammering away. Look at the Birdseye on the garmin and it shows her in the pasture. I am thinking there is no way she stopped her first hog in the middle of open pasture. And I was right. Unknown to me I guess the neighbor put some cows on his land. Get to where I can see her and she is doing a fine job of keeping 5 cows. circled up. Unfortunately I want a hog dog, not a cow dog. These are the first ones she has seen.

Was thinking bout taking her back out tomorrow for a little electro therapy. What's the best way to go about this. Walk her right to the cows and light her up? Or let her hunt them out on her own then light her up. She has chased a few deer but I have been able to call her off them easily. It took a whole lot more time and effort to get her off those cows today. I am pretty new to hog dogging and was just lookin for some experienced opinions on how to get her off cows without doing any damage to her want to get out and hunt. Thanks

[PEEWEE]

Use the shock collar but be where she don't know your there bump her a little if she won't quit let her have it works for me

[biseral]

My buddies told me not to provoke it. If hunting and starts trashing then deal with it. Also told me not to say anything. Let the collar do talking.

[BIG BEN]

 The dog has to know what the shock collar is for, work with her at home on basic stuff using the collar so she gets familar with the purpose of the collar, pretty quick she'll learn when that thing gets me its a no no. Then take her to the woods on a "hunt" but set her up for disaster, make sure there are cows in the woods your gonna run her in. Im not quiet, when I zap em I hollar "get out", pretty soon they get the point. Watch the dog closely, when it even gets a thought of getting after a cow give em a lil zap. Small steps at first and dont run the collar in full power either, fastest way to ruin a dog is with a shock collar. I dont start trash breaking till the dog kinda knows that we are after hogs, after so many hogs in the woods Ill start doing my lil "hunts" with the collar, Another thing while trash breaking when you do get on hogs, pet them up as much as possible and let them know that a hog is good.

[BarrNinja]

The dog has to know what the shock collar is for, work with her at home on basic stuff using the collar so she gets familar with the purpose of the collar, pretty quick she'll learn when that thing gets me its a no no. Then take her to the woods on a "hunt" but set her up for disaster, make sure there are cows in the woods your gonna run her in. Im not quiet, when I zap em I hollar "get out", pretty soon they get the point. Watch the dog closely, when it even gets a thought of getting after a cow give em a lil zap. Small steps at first and dont run the collar in full power either, fastest way to ruin a dog is with a shock collar. I dont start trash breaking till the dog kinda knows that we are after hogs, after so many hogs in the woods Ill start doing my lil "hunts" with the collar, Another thing while trash breaking when you do get on hogs, pet them up as much as possible and let them know that a hog is good.

x 2!

[Bryant]

Put the collar off and on the dog a while before you actually start using it.  Put it on and let the dog wear it in the kennel for a day or so, take it off and repeat in a couple days.

It doesn't take a real smart dog but about one time of strapping a collar on and going straight to work with it and they will figure out if they have it on or not.

[Wmwendler]

Does she know what a hog is yet?  I always like for them to know what sort of livestock they are supposed to be after before I do try to break them off of something.  While baying cows is not what you want her to do it is definately not a bad thing.  Actually I see it as a good sign.  If she locates 5 cows and bays them rather than just chaseing them, then thats positive.  In my opinion it shows allot of things, Drive, Hunt, and stock baying ability which will naturally translate into hogs.  I would not worry too much about the cattle right now.  Get her on plenty of hogs behind dogs that dont mess with cattle, then worry about breaking her off the cattle after that.  Just my 2 cents.

Waylon

[Jonathan Barth]

Does she know what a hog is yet?  I always like for them to know what sort of livestock they are supposed to be after before I do try to break them off of something.  While baying cows is not what you want her to do it is definately not a bad thing.  Actually I see it as a good sign.  If she locates 5 cows and bays them rather than just chaseing them, then thats positive.  In my opinion it shows allot of things, Drive, Hunt, and stock baying ability which will naturally translate into hogs.  I would not worry too much about the cattle right now.  Get her on plenty of hogs behind dogs that dont mess with cattle, then worry about breaking her off the cattle after that.  Just my 2 cents.

Waylon

Yeah I agree with you, I may not know a whole lot about starting dogs and all yet, but the guys I`ve talked to have told me to make sure they know what a hog is and have gotten on hogs several times before trying to break them off anything.

[TexasHogDogs]

I take mine to the cow lot put a 30 foot rope lead on them and we walk threw the cows first lunge he gets burned  second lunge gets burned again we walk all the way threw the cattle then turn around and come back threw the cattle if any going for the cattle I lightem up then we walk back threw the cattle again by then the dog is on my heels as close as they can get if they even look at a cow going back thew i lightem up and now we turn around and go back threw the cattle the dog will be trying to climb up your butt begging you not to go back threw the cows and never look are glance at one going threw and that is when you know your dog is cattle broke for good this is all on high maximum shock why play with the dog with a bump here and a bump there if you gonna do it let them know there is no doubt what is coming it has never failed me  .  Been doing it this way for years and years and let me tell you my dogs will go a quater mile out of the way to get around cattle are if we are riding the roads and cattle are in the way they will dang near climb up on the wheeler with me , now if they are chasing hogs and the hogs go threw the cattle they will stay right on the hog never look at the cattle other than that they are taking the long way around .

[halfbreed]

hopefully it takes a dog a [ WHILE to figure out ] what that shock collars is all about . and i don't want my dog to figure out that it's me causing them pain and not the cattle. goats and deer . i don't want the dog acting good when in site of me and then playing games with a nother trashy dog if it figures out  i'm not around to holler get out . when you punch that button on off game YOU say NOTHING. your dog should allready know what get out meens before hitting the woods .now me everybody i've talked to profesional trainers , and tritronics reps believe in this . once a dog figures that collar and you out they like angels with it on and devils without . just what the rest the dog world does . just be careful , been as many dogs set back with e-collars as got ahead

[Randy_P]

Quote from Texashogdogs- "if we are riding the roads and cattle are in the way they will dang near climb up on the wheeler with"

Why in the world do you want a dog to do this??  Wouldnt it be better if they just by-passed the cows and continued hunting??  This is way toooooo extreme in my opinion.  To each his own I guess

[TexasHogDogs]

Not for me it aint.  You hunt these ranches around here you better be dang dang dang sure you dog aint screwing up when you are not there,  I dont know about you but I dont have 5000 - 10,000 bucks extra to spend on somebody prize bull calf are cow and I sure dont want my name being throwed around dont let this guy hunt your place those dogs will get on your cows.

You are right to each his own.

[skunkhounds]

i have never used a shock collar . i take them out in the cow pasture and let them run if they mess with the cows i take the dog leash and whip that ass and turn them loose again it dont take many times they will learn .it just takes alittle more time and effort then pushing a button

[TexasHogDogs]

I have seen people that swear their dogs will not mess with cows you take them hunting and the whole hunt is screwed up because of it and if the land owner see it you are threw no excuses.  Number one the hunter is a liar number two he wont hunt with me again.  Also I was doing some work on a ranch out here one time years ago somebody was hunting around the area  some were we heard them a few times on wheelers and then heard dogs barking on this mans property we went to the bay expecting to see dogs baying a hog and there is two dogs mauling and killing a calf with day glow collars on and one with a cut vest  no name tags and nobody ever came to claim the dogs wonder why ?  Na man made me sick to my stomach and I am a hog hunter with dogs how you think that made me look in front of him.  I could see why land owners get so mad.  The way I see it I don't feel a bit sorry for a hunter when his dogs get on some body's live stock cows, calf's, horses , chickens it don't matter that person deserves what he gets from the land owner. A dog just crossing land that is a different story.   Its the dog hunters responsibility to make damn sure his dogs are livestock broke !  Thats why I go to the extremes to make sure it never happens to me are my Buddy's I hunt with .  

If I cant control my dogs then I don't need to be hunting with them.

The number one Cardinal sin in dog hunting is for dogs to get on Livestock .

[Wmwendler]

Not for me it aint.  You hunt these ranches around here you better be dang dang dang sure you dog aint screwing up when you are not there,  I dont know about you but I dont have 5000 - 10,000 bucks extra to spend on somebody prize bull calf are cow and I sure dont want my name being throwed around dont let this guy hunt your place those dogs will get on your cows.

You are right to each his own.

If my dogs screw up.....worst case cenario is they will bay they cows up.  As long as I don't run a bunch of shoat/calf catchers then I'll be allright.

Waylon

[halfbreed]

and there in lays the problem . even baying cows will not be tollerated by me . i ain't cow huntin or goat huntin or deer huntin when i'm out and the dogs better damn well not be either . but i guess that falls under training a dog what is acceptable behavior in the woods

[DoGgONit]

I have seen people that swear their dogs will not mess with cows you take them hunting and the whole hunt is screwed up because of it and if the land owner see it you are threw no excuses.  Number one the hunter is a liar number two he wont hunt with me again.  Also I was doing some work on a ranch out here one time years ago somebody was hunting around the area  some were we heard them a few times on wheelers and then heard dogs barking on this mans property we went to the bay expecting to see dogs baying a hog and there is two dogs mauling and killing a calf with day glow collars on and one with a cut vest  no name tags and nobody ever came to claim the dogs wonder why ?  Na man made me sick to my stomach and I am a hog hunter with dogs how you think that made me look in front of him.  I could see why land owners get so mad.  The way I see it I don't feel a bit sorry for a hunter when his dogs get on some body's live stock cows, calf's, horses , chickens it don't matter that person deserves what he gets from the land owner. A dog just crossing land that is a different story.   Its the dog hunters responsibility to make damn sure his dogs are livestock broke !  Thats why I go to the extremes to make sure it never happens to me are my Buddy's I hunt with .  

If I cant control my dogs then I don't need to be hunting with them.

The number one Cardinal sin in dog hunting is for dogs to get on Livestock .

very well said , and ya  make them do a back flip and wet them selves!!

[biseral]

Not to take away but a smart dog will learn wats ok and whats not right? I put a shock on mine but I try and make em think it's the cow hurting em. New to doggin but learnin this is just my opinion right or wrong thanks

[mod93dirt]

Thanks for the advice everyone, gave me some things to think about. The pup has been in the pen on a hog a few times and know how to get it done there. She found her own pig in the woods at 8 months old but didnt get it stopped. So she has never been on a caught hog in the woods. She has only chased a few deer, and like I said I was able to call her off, and she has had rabbits jump out right in front of her and she didnt give them a second thought. That is one reason I will halfway tolerate her going after other "game" at this point. Once she sees what she is after in the woods I will lose my tolerance for any trashing.  But I dont want her to have ANYTHING to do with livestock...at all!! Around here thats a sure fire way to lose a hunting spot. I broke her off horses and goats starting at day one that I got her since she was around them every day and wanted to chase them. Plus we hunt a lot off of horses. I did it almost like THD said with a 30ft lead. I would let her run the whole 30ft length of the lead then yank her self off the ground at the end of it and telling her "no horse".  Then progressively started shortening the length of lead she got to run. Took about a week of doing this and she got the idea. Every now and then she will look cross at a horse and I say "no horse" and she falls back in line. I am kind of thinking the same approach might work with a cow, without having to shock.

One good thing is I talked to the neighbor with the cows about using them for some training and he said he was fine with it as long as the dogs didnt do any chewing.

[hogdog05]

I have to agree with waylon.  Its shows what that dogs has.  I am pretty sure that pup hasn't seen enough to know that it is only supposed to be baying hogs.  Also i agree with Big Ben, little steps.  If you shock a dog on full power number 1 its shows your lack of knowledge in training, and number 2 you will never have anything to move up to if further trashbreaking is nessecary.  You got to set these dogs up for success or they will never figure things out.  Also i would never want my dogs to go around cattle.  Hogs like to run in groups of cattle.  Always progress with training never start at your maximum capability or you set yourself up for diaster.