Cow Breaking

[TexasHogDogs]

If you shock a dog on full power number 1 its shows your lack of knowledge in training, and number 2 you will never have anything to move up to if further trashbreaking is nessecary.

Number 1 I dont know if you meant that as a insult are what you are thinking.  But I can tell ya one thing it sure as hell dont show lack of knowledge because once my dogs are broke off cattle in about 20 mins one time you never ever have to worry again about them were ever they go and what ever they are doing.  Number 2 if you do it right the first time you will never have to move up to do it again .  Why put a dog threw a repeated thing when you can get it over and done with in just one short lesson.

Do you think a young kid would rather try his dad after his dad gave him a good ole fashion ass whipping are if his daddy said now go to your room for the rest of the day.  I dont know about you but I know plenty of people that have kids they cannot control just because they refused to give them a good ole fashion ass whipping when they were young and now its turned around on the parents and bit them in the behind their kids are in and out of jail always in trouble in school and everything else.

A dog is like a kid .  Also it is not about if the collar is on high are low its your knowledge of how to use it and what is enuff and what is not !

[TexasHogDogs]

Correction

A dog is like a kid .  Also it is not about if the collar is on high its your knowledge of how to use it and what is enuff and what is not !

[hogdog05]

TexasHogDog dont take anything i say as an insult, i refuse to do such.  More of my personal opinion.  All trainers will make mistakes its human nature.  With the kid analogy we can look at it two ways.  First If the parents just haul off and give an ole fashion whoopin for the child doing something wrong.  And Secondly, first the parents scold the child then progress from there to spanking.  In the first analogy and the one you gave, the child does not know what he is doing is wrong because he has never been told.  The second analogy the child was told something was wrong and punishment progressed from there.  In my opinion the first analogy is BAD parenting, with the second being my prefered method.  This all tranlates to dogs or any kinda livestock.  I believe in being a trainer and haveing a dog understand what i want from him and not to be just scared of something.   So if i am using an e-collar, 1. i scold first  2. scould with low setting correction   3.  might have to give minor correction on a dog with a switch.(carefull not to get outta control)  In this number three you can progress levels.  This method is just what i use many have their own ways of training, but this one i have better results with.  Something i know to be a fact is in livestock.  Put them in a hot wire fence, when they get a zap it scares the devil out of them.  Don't believe me just watch their reaction.  But when the powers off and they have figured it out they will be leaning all over that fence.  My reason for saying this is dogs will revert back to something if they were just scared off of it, just like cattle and horses. I don't want to have to run an e-collar on my dogs forever.  One month maybe two depending on how you hunt is all i want an extra collar hanging on my dog.  Like i said this method works for me.  I'll give you an example.  Keep in mind I said ALL trainers make MISTAKES.  Several months ago i had a pup run right up to about 200 head of cattle that were bunched tight.  This pup was kinda boogering at the cattle so i gave a scold and light correction.  The pup backed up but wanted to get in those cattle.  So i caught myself and put the shock collar down and watched that dog.  Finally he made his way through the cattle and bayed a 200# sow 15 yards on the other side of the cattle.  Thats why i want my dogs to be able to understand what i want and go through cattle to find hogs, and not be so scared they won't go near them.  This dog knew he was not supposed to bark at cattle but knew there was a hog on the other side, hence the booger barking. When his confidence built up he went and did his job.  Now that same pup i can turn him out off my truck with 250 head of momma cows running over my truck trying to get feed, and that dog not say a word or even bother looking at the cattle.

[TexasHogDogs]

Its all good man . 

[muleman]

If you shock a dog on full power number 1 its shows your lack of knowledge in training, and number 2 you will never have anything to move up to if further trashbreaking is nessecary

I guess I have no knowledge either.....I use a dummy collar and just let them wear it, then after they are already baying hogs, I give them the opportunity to bay cattle....as soon as they bark at a cow, I see if I can make sparks fly out of their arse! they think its caused by barking at a cow. problem solved.

Also, there is always something to move up to.....in Glock we trust.....just sayin

[TexasHogDogs]

LOL.

[circleb54]

I turned a loose my blue dog at the house with cows and eased close so he did not know I was around and only took twice on max and he will get as far away as he can even on a leash he would yank yOu to the far side

[mod93dirt]

I apologize. I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest here. I know I am new to hog hunting, but with the little knowledge I have as far as hunting dogs go(I have a background with other forms of dog training) I know that I, or anyone that has been kind enough to help me get started hog hunting has no room for a dog wanting to disturb cattle or any other livestock. The hog population here in NE OK, while growing every day, isn't what it is in TX. So there are not as many landowners willing to open their property for hunting to strangers. Almost every land owner i have talked to in order in to get hog hunting rights has said OK, with the caveat of "dont mess with my cattle."So once again I thank everyone for their opinions as I was just wondering what it takes to get my pups to leave the cows alone.

[makenbeans]

I agree with Waylon the young dog is showing positive traits.  Work him or her on hogs and then correct the cow trashing.

[Bar R Ranch]

I apologize. I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest here. I know I am new to hog hunting, but with the little knowledge I have as far as hunting dogs go(I have a background with other forms of dog training) I know that I, or anyone that has been kind enough to help me get started hog hunting has no room for a dog wanting to disturb cattle or any other livestock. The hog population here in NE OK, while growing every day, isn't what it is in TX. So there are not as many landowners willing to open their property for hunting to strangers. Almost every land owner i have talked to in order in to get hog hunting rights has said OK, with the caveat of "dont mess with my cattle."So once again I thank everyone for their opinions as I was just wondering what it takes to get my pups to leave the cows alone.

Dont let them bother you Brandon. I know what you mean about landowners and cows. The problem is that most of them only have experience with dogs chasing cows. They have never seen dogs that can bunch cows like your pup did(and like every good hog dog should do). If you have already had success breaking her off of horses, then I say do what has already worked for you.

[TexasHogDogs]

Just different ways man no big deal noting wrong with the way you do it as long as we all get the good end results then its all good.

[Randy_P]

Not for me it aint.  You hunt these ranches around here you better be dang dang dang sure you dog aint screwing up when you are not there,  I dont know about you but I dont have 5000 - 10,000 bucks extra to spend on somebody prize bull calf are cow and I sure dont want my name being throwed around dont let this guy hunt your place those dogs will get on your cows.

You are right to each his own.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make...  If the dog is broke off cows it would be advantageous to the hunter for the dog to continue HOG hunting and not pay attention to the cows.  Like you say, your dogs will try and load up when in proximity of cattle.  Whatever way the dog reacts they are still cattle broke so it would be better for the dog to continue hunting rather than have to move away from the cattle before the dog feels comfortable to being hog hunting again.  Has nothing to do with who has 5-10K for a "prize" bull.

[TexasHogDogs]

Why should every good hog dog be good at herding cattle?  Is every cow dog good at finding and catching hogs?  If he aint does that make him a bad cow dog?

[Randy_P]

Why should every good hog dog be good at herding cattle?  Is every cow dog good at finding and catching hogs?  If he aint does that make him a bad cow dog?

[TexasHogDogs]

ahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahha

Am stopping right there if I dont we gonna be here for a while ahhaahahhaahahahahah.

Its all good man

 I knew what you meant Randy_P  I do it the way I do it cause I have to have know in my mind with out any doubt my dogs are not off screwing up with as many cattle as we hunt around it does not seem to effect my dogs when they are hunting and its not to often they are in front of my wheeler are around it when we are hunting anyway but if they were and cattle were infront of us they would all most likly jump single file behind the wheeler till we were clear of the cattle if not they shoot off into the woods and continue hunting , its no big effect on the dogs only if they are with me when we are around cattle which is not very often .

[Bar R Ranch]

Why should every good hog dog be good at herding cattle?  Is every cow dog good at finding and catching hogs?  If he aint does that make him a bad cow dog?

Im sorry I should have said MY opinion of a good hog dog is one that can bunch a herd of cows. 

[circleP]

  I have cow and hog dogs some are straight one way or the other and some i use on both. I take pups for straight hogs when they are 6 months old turn them in my cow patch and burn  up everyone that that wants to cow and they usually all do. I dont say anything to them just him them a few times wait a couple of weeks and do it again and only a few take more than two times

[tomtom]

 Just get a sack of cubes and feed them with your dog in the back of the truck/wheeler/whatever. Just cube em and then take your dog out. Every gamed-up hound pup I deal with goes and feeds cows before they get turned loose.

[mod93dirt]

Just thought I would throw out a little update on my pup. Today was the first  day that I was able to get her back out there. I walked her into the woods on the opposite side of the property downwind from where I knew the cows were at. She was doing real good making 200yd loops then checking back in, all the while I am walking toward the cows. Finally got to the north side of the property where the cows are at.  I able to see them before she winded them, or saw them, but sure enough once she does, she beelines it to the cows. Thankfully I was in a position to see it all. She gets about two barks in on a cow and I nick her, about 1/2 power. She looked up like "what the heck" and goes back to barking. So I nick her again and get the same what the heck reaction. Once again she goes back to barking so I hit the "constant" button for a few seconds and she comes running back to me. I never said a word to her while hitting the button. So I stand at the edge of the woods looking at about 30 cows for a while to see if she wants to go back out, but she never does. Headed back into the woods, and she hung close for a few minutes, then she was back to making her loops. After that I came across some fresh small tracks and she was gone for about 20 minutes trying to work something out at 2-400yds, but never did. So I am thinking shocking her didnt have too much of a negative effect. Gonna try to get her back out in the next couple of days to set her up again and see if it made an impression. Hopefully she is a quick learner, but more hopefully I hope I can get her on a pig.

[Corey]

That is good to hear, I have found with cur types positive re-efforcement is the best way. These dogs are not livestock(stupid), they live to hunt and please. She is just running on instinct, very good thing, its our job to guide that to our liking. Some of the dogs I have, I can look at sideways and they know they f@$%&d up, some take a good bit more dicouragemment. Do what works for you some long as your able to show her the positive outlet for her instinct .