... some thoughts about comparing dogs

[cward]

Noah let me try and dumb it down. Want be hard. I have seen supper long range dogs hot the ground running and past hogs up and go a mile and bay. When dogs that take there time and cover the area they are in then range out are better.

[Noah]

Spot on Reuben, Chance, thanks for translating so as I could understand haha, like you said... no sense in runnin' past hogs to find hogs!  Excellent point that I also agree with gentlemen!

[T-Bob Parker]

Yup chance translated it fer me.

Noah the dog you describe isn't what iwas talkin bout, it's basically what I have and continue to shoot for.

What I mean when I say that bout long dogs is some people mistake a dog who in a hurry to get gone for one who's hunting. Combine that with the fact that in a world of shrinking properties you as the hunter need to be more intelligent about where you cast your dogs FROM and that's my opinion in a nutshell.

I am smarter than most of my dogs even if only by a lil bit and I decide what wallow/rootin or track I wanna start the hunt in.

[Noah]

Allow me to give example of what "annoys" a "typical" Florida hunter 

.... invite a new person to hunt... supposed to have good dogs...

... allow person to drop dogs on good property and dogs take track and goes...... and goes........... and.... gooooooooes..........................

... for all you long range cur folk... imagine inviting somebody to hunt with you that runs a pack of cold ass slow trailing hounds lol...   you can pretty much guarantee you gonna be chasin' dogs for the majority of the day... valuable time that might've been spent CATCHING hogs with faster, harder stopping, shorter ranged dogs...

[brad s]

I think its dang near impossible to compare dogs based on one hunt alone or one property. I think they need to be hunted together several times to have a true comparison to one another. Its consistency that what makes a good dog to me

[Purebreedcolt]

Here are my thoughts I don't think it is fair to compare breeds or more specifically type of dogs.  I think it boils down to more of the owner and what they like in a dog.  To me there are too many "types" of dogs to accurately compare.  Jmo

[Reuben]

Allow me to give example of what "annoys" a "typical" Florida hunter 

.... invite a new person to hunt... supposed to have good dogs...

... allow person to drop dogs on good property and dogs take track and goes...... and goes........... and.... gooooooooes..........................

... for all you long range cur folk... imagine inviting somebody to hunt with you that runs a pack of cold ass slow trailing hounds lol...   you can pretty much guarantee you gonna be chasin' dogs for the majority of the day... valuable time that might've been spent CATCHING hogs with faster, harder stopping, shorter ranged dogs...


Noah,

the dogs I had in the 1990's up to 2007 were good about stopping one pretty quick in the semi open country and from around Dec. to mid April when the weeds were down...usually in less than a mile...but in the hot summer and when it was very thick the dogs would loose some because it was too thick and they couldn't get close enough to the bad runners...they would over heat and get outran some times...but lots of times they would catch up in another ranch or 2 further in...so I would just have to wait them out or get close enough to call them out...

but this time around I will sacrifice a little on the nose and hunting style to get rough dogs that will need a running vest...right now I have a gritty mtn cur female bred to an extremely rough parker dog...I want to shorten the races some...the ranches are getting smaller and the neighborhoods are moving closer to these ranches...I don't need my dogs shot or stolen so I think that strike dogs that borderline on running catch dogs are going to become the type of dog sought after in the future...silent trailers and not much bark to them...my vision is to have these type of dogs but do not want quit in them...I want the dogs to give it a good try...but to stop the hog at the first opportune time...

[Noah]

Ahhh... never underestimate the value of "quit" in a dog... hard to comprehend for many people lol.... but there does exist hard hunting, hard stopping dogs that know when to quit a hog...  sometimes I even cuss myself for giving some of them away 

[koyote76]

Ahhh... never underestimate the value of "quit" in a dog... hard to comprehend for many people lol.... but there does exist hard hunting, hard stopping dogs that know when to quit a hog...  sometimes I even cuss myself for giving some of them away 

noah from past conversations i understand the "quit" your looking and breeding for. but dont forget that quit can be trained under the conditions of handle and its easier to train that in a dog with bottom and brains then without. i like to control when the dogs quit the hog.

[Noah]

True... rather have it than not have it for sure...   but some of mine have way too much and I aim to breed it out over time... 

[koyote76]

True... rather have it than not have it for sure...   but some of mine have way too much and I aim to breed it out over time... 

what consequences of breeding bottom out could you see happening over time.

[T-Bob Parker]

True... rather have it than not have it for sure...   but some of mine have way too much and I aim to breed it out over time... 

what consequences of breeding bottom out could you see happening over time.

Having the same crummy dogs as most of the population. Gettin outrun regularly and going thru a lot of 22LR's

[koyote76]

noah theres no doubt in my mind that you could breed for the trait of  smart quit. but it would be a very hard trait to completely line out. alter and set without hindering other traits, sometimes when one trait is hieghtened or dimmed other traits get altered in the process. one wrong turn and you could change the whole line for worse, but if you could alter it specifically then you could end up with your dream, its just very hard to just pick a single trait out and change the dynamic of it without the blowback of altering another trait. but im just talking here if you succeed then my hats off to you for doing some very fine breeding that is very "noah" specific.

[hillbilly]

Short range stoppers would be great if you got a good many hogs. But what if you have only a handful of hogs on a couple thousand acres or more? I would think you need dogs to go find them hogs.
I know what you mean about dogs blowing out of the country so to speak. I have hunted behind some of these dogs and found hogs that they went by. Like someone else said I want a dog that will start out hunting beside me and move out to where ever it takes to bay a hog.

[rdjustham]

Short range stoppers would be great if you got a good many hogs. But what if you have only a handful of hogs on a couple thousand acres or more?

Tom you have to be blessed around here to have that much property to hunt.  Most of the places left here are couple hundred acres.

[magnuml]

Allow me to give example of what "annoys" a "typical" Florida hunter 

.... invite a new person to hunt... supposed to have good dogs...

... allow person to drop dogs on good property and dogs take track and goes...... and goes........... and.... gooooooooes..........................

... for all you long range cur folk... imagine inviting somebody to hunt with you that runs a pack of cold ass slow trailing hounds lol...   you can pretty much guarantee you gonna be chasin' dogs for the majority of the day... valuable time that might've been spent CATCHING hogs with faster, harder stopping, shorter ranged dogs...

You must have hunted with some of the same people i have! lmao! Or they ask , How many dogs do you want me to dump and you say 2, and later your picking up the 5th dog and ask how many more. Had that happen few months back, we chased/hunted 1 dog for 4 HOURS! Or they have dogs that will get close and when they go to catch them they take off. 
 

[TShelly]

Noah I think you have the wrong impression on the dogs we hunt. They are long range but they hunt feet out... If they went a mile before they found hogs it was bc the first mile didn't have any it. They thoroughly will cover the area and rarely miss a hog close to find one further. They do have bottom though, they won't just quit one right off, but they arnt the insane bottom for days some hounds possess.. I think what makes the ones we hunt behind so good is their speed while running track, their ability to process what's going on and natural find ability( brains, brains, brains!), and bottom. We don't have quite as many hogs around home as some places in Texas and Florida. If they strike one, we want them to finish it out. No matter what

[Noah]

Noah I think you have the wrong impression on the dogs we hunt. They are long range but they hunt feet out... If they went a mile before they found hogs it was bc the first mile didn't have any it. They thoroughly will cover the area and rarely miss a hog close to find one further. They do have bottom though, they won't just quit one right off, but they arnt the insane bottom for days some hounds possess.. I think what makes the ones we hunt behind so good is their speed while running track, their ability to process what's going on and natural find ability( brains, brains, brains!), and bottom. We don't have quite as many hogs around home as some places in Texas and Florida. If they strike one, we want them to finish it out. No matter what

Nope...  my impression was spot on 

Your dogs sound very similar to mine, minus that annoying "bottom" thing lol

[Noah]

True... rather have it than not have it for sure...   but some of mine have way too much and I aim to breed it out over time... 

what consequences of breeding bottom out could you see happening over time.

We are talking about a dog, SPECIFICALLY designed to hunt small properties effectively...  as long as you don't change the expectations for this sort of dog, I see no consequences in breeding for it... I have first hand experience in this as this is the type of dog most of my stock is out of

[Noah]

Short range stoppers would be great if you got a good many hogs. But what if you have only a handful of hogs on a couple thousand acres or more? I would think you need dogs to go find them hogs.
I know what you mean about dogs blowing out of the country so to speak. I have hunted behind some of these dogs and found hogs that they went by. Like someone else said I want a dog that will start out hunting beside me and move out to where ever it takes to bay a hog.

No bottom does not necessarily imply no hunt    I have dogs that don't miss many hogs, but don't run more than a thousand yds after they jump...  if a dog can find a hog, run a track FAST, and sit that bitch down... ain't no need for bottom