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Author Topic: Cost of puppies........  (Read 4315 times)
cantexduck
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« on: April 26, 2009, 06:29:45 pm »

 We have already had threads about the price of dogs, Lets talk a puppy now.

    What determines the price of a puppy? The parents? The price of parents? I have gone from a free pup all the way to a 400 dollar pup. Most pups are @ 100 bucks, I see.
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2009, 08:51:36 pm »

it all depends on the dogs lineage for me.  if a pups parents, grandparents on both sides are proven dogs the pup is more than likely gonna be a good dog.   then you have price differences due to breed only which may seem weird but that's the way it is.  and some are just priced due to the owner thinking they're worth that much.

for me most pups should be around $50-100 for most of the "both parents are good dogs" breedings i've seen.  then you get pups from proven lines and in my opinion they're worth the asking price range of $200-500 depending on the lineage of the pup because it's less of a crapshoot of whether or not the pup is gonna turn out.  IMO a lot of breedings are pretty dicey on whether or not the pups are gonna turn out because the owner might not know anything about the grandparents of the pup.  that good dog they're breeding may have been the only one in that entire litter, which doesn't give good odds as to what kind of dog the pups are gonna make.

i hope that makes sense...
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2009, 09:21:57 pm »

I think that availability - suppy/demand comes into play with pups.  Are we talking about a rare breed/ proven cross/ run of the mill cur dog.

You have the pups that people take their two best dogs and cross hoping that the pups turn into something...To me these are the zero-100.00 pups.

Then you have a proven cross, the cross has been made, and the majority of the pups turned out with desirable traits. I think these are worth several hundred, as the odds of a pup actually making a dog are in your favor.

Next is rare breed/ specialty dog - sky is the limit on pricing. Example,  Mandi is flying to Canada in 6 weeks to pick up an aussie puppy. The sire was, after having semen collected and frozen, neutered several years ago(due to a non hereditary medical condition). He is multiple best of show, best in breed, and best in specialty show winner. He has produced puppies that have won best in show in 12 different countries, as well as winners at Westminster. The dam is a multiple best in show winner, working trial winner, and an agility champion. She was AI'd with shipped frozen semen.  One can imagine that there is great cost incurred in producing a litter in this scenario, and with the track record of the parents, the pups are highly sought after. The price on these pups will be $1500.00+ range before any shipping costs are incurred.

My .02





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HogzgoneWild
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2009, 09:28:58 pm »

Well put C, couldn't agree more, alot of the same applies to pups as does older dogs.
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2009, 10:33:57 pm »

I have proven crosses when I breed a dog I breed for me not for anyone else I am very serious on how I make a cross I do not sell my pups I will find some that do not have a good dog at that time and will try to give them the pup with the condition I can breed back to it if I need to.I breed working dogs and will pick me 2 or 3 puppies and give the rest away now some people sell there pups if I was to put a price on 1 of my pup it would be high on one of my finshed dogs ain't nobody out there going to spend the kind of money I think they are worth that is like selling a family member and a tool for me.
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 07:08:34 am »

I am going through this right now !!! I have a litter of catahula / blueticks on the ground they are hardly five weeks old and already chasin a piglet around the yard .. I had ten pups and before they had their eyes open folks that have had pups from this line were already wanting to come pic one/two out..

So in my opinion on this thread it is all about proof !!!!! Anybody can say that their dogs are jam up and anybody can say that their pups are gonna turn into great hunting dogs but PROVE IT!!!!  I have been breeding these two dogs for a few years now.. for people to come back for more just means they like em .. or the dog has proven to do what they were bred to do. I dont ask a bunch of money for my pups $150.00 and they are all spoken for.  Makes me proud of my grown dogs that they have kinda in a way made a name for them selves ....

So, yes some dogs are worth $1000.00's and some are worth $100.00's and even some of the best dogs are for free... but the proof is in the pudding.... dont just go to the pound and expect a dog to turn into the best hog dog ever.. He might with some work or he might with lil work but ya never know ... If you are expecting a dog to turn into a good hog dog buy one from good hog dog lines.. and if they are already givin a pigglet hell at 5 weeks then i think yer odds are good!!!!!

Chaz
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 05:56:30 pm »

you couldnt beg me to take a 50 dollar pup . if i am looking for a pup and want to  put that much time and feed into one and take a chance of it getting struck by lightning or some crazy crap im going to get the top of the line from somebody thats been producing good dogs for a long time . they usually cost several hundred with a garauntee that if they dont work you get another or a fefund, but thats alot cheaper and easier than going through several before you finally get what you want .

on the other hand i bought a pup off the side of the road for 150 and is one of the best young dogs with more natural instinct that ive ever had .
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cantexduck
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2009, 06:03:24 pm »

 What I m talking about-
      1k for a dogo pup.
       400 lacy pup-
       500 for a Wrights bred BMC
       100 for a line bred cur-
       etc.
 I myself will never pay more then 100-200 for a pup again. UNLESS, it is for a JAM UP pup like the wright's listed above, but even for one of those I couldnt spend 500 for it. Someone told me something so simple one time- if you call about a pup,ask the owner how many they plan on keeping. If it is none, then move on. People with good dogs dont breed for others, they  breed for themselves and friends and sometimes you get lucky and get a pup.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2009, 10:10:15 pm »

if we sell a pup we charge about $100.00 but we go by how the parents are hunting wise.
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2009, 10:48:50 pm »

For me personally, worth is determind by what I know first-hand about the line of dogs.

A high dollar pup bred from a pair of "jam-up" strike dogs may not be worth two-cents to me (and the parents might not be, either) if it's not from a line of dogs that perform like I want.  Everybody's tastes and styles are different and one persons ace in the hole might be worthless to someone else.  When I buy a pup, I want to hunt or have hunted with the parents to get a pretty good idea of what I'm going to have down the line.  Background is VERY important to me because as we have discussed many times I feel genetics play an EXTREMELY BIG role in the final product.

The price of a pup is also determined by what the BUYER feels it's worth.  I see pups all the time advertised for what I feel is a pretty high asking price and by the time the litter is all sold out, the last few were given away.  That's always a clear indication that the seller was a lot more proud of what he had than the potential buyers were.

Just my ramblings...
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2009, 08:11:55 am »

Just to stir the pot what do you think when someone tries to sell a litter of pits For 200-300 a piece? I seen it the other day. (they were not special bred lines just bred for hunting)Last time i checked you could by a finished catch dog for that. The pits to me seem to lose there monetary value. I just dont get why some people can buy a pit pup at 200 feed it, put in the woods time, and sociallize it just to turn around and sell. They must know they could never come out even in the deal. I know not everyone does this but there are alot that do.
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muleman
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2009, 08:18:54 am »

My theory is, puppies are worth exactly what someone will pay for them. Not a penny more
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2009, 08:47:25 am »

Just to stir the pot what do you think when someone tries to sell a litter of pits For 200-300 a piece? I seen it the other day. (they were not special bred lines just bred for hunting)Last time i checked you could by a finished catch dog for that. The pits to me seem to lose there monetary value. I just dont get why some people can buy a pit pup at 200 feed it, put in the woods time, and sociallize it just to turn around and sell. They must know they could never come out even in the deal. I know not everyone does this but there are alot that do.

I guess that sort of depends on what you plans are for the dog. If you just want it to hunt with no intentions of wanting something off the dog if it proves breedworthy, then you're right...they wouldn't come out even. But, if you're the kind that would eventually want something off a dog that matured into a good dog then you're better off getting a well bred dog.

I posted this on another thread, but I think it applies here as well...

They were not registered but papers dont make them hunt any better.

That is true, but I think most people miss the point of "papers"...It's not that the dog is registered, but that it has a traceable pedigree. The pedigree is what is important, not the actual registration by a kennel club. A pedigree is a very useful tool when it comes to breeding, a pedigree tells you what a dog should be. And by being able to trace back to dogs that were 4, 6, 8, 10 generations back and get information regarding their work ethic, traits, etc. it increases your chances of producing dogs that have the same desireable traits. If utilized appropriately, it can be a key element in consistently producing quality working dogs.
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Bryant
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2009, 09:39:22 am »

Very well said, Scott.

Breeding is one of my biggest pet peaves, and a lot of people have no idea what it takes to breed for CONSISTENCY.
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2009, 10:28:14 am »

Very well said, Scott.

Breeding is one of my biggest pet peaves, and a lot of people have no idea what it takes to breed for CONSISTENCY.

CONSISTENCY THATS WHAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A REAL BREEDER AND A BACKYARD BUM. AS I TYPE I DONT HAVE THE TIME, PATIENCE, OR KNOW HOW  TO DEVELOP A LINE. SINCE I CANT DO THAT I DONT DO IT. THEN THERE ARE THOSE GUYS THAT AT ONE TIME HAD REAL GOOD DOGS AND OVER TIME THEY LET THE MONEY GET THE BEST OF THEM. AS A RESULT THE QUALITY DECLINES AND SO DOES THEIR NAME.
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2009, 11:26:33 am »

I am no breeder, but when I do have pups they are usually given away to working homes.  With that being said I have paid a lot for a pup and I have been given pups more times than what I have bought.  A dog is a 10 year investment, more or less, and I am not going to take a chance on something that doesnt have a chance to make a good or great dog.  Now when you are dealing with purebreeds such as ABs or other Rare breeds I believe it is better to spend the money and get something that has a guarantee of health and the potential to be a better prospect because the breeder has tested the parents and has knowledge of the breed and what to breed to better the lines.  However, there is no guarantee on any pup, just better prospects than others.  As far as these folks who think that since they bought pups from proven lines and put them in a pen together and now have pups out of dogs that they havent tested themselves, then they should have the right to charge top dollar for a pup need to be put out of business, but unfortunately the general public is ignorant and most think that they can do the same and make a fortune.  I will say this till the day I die, " If you add up the time, money, gas, food, vet bills, medicine, hotels, mileage, etc. that it takes to prove a dog in the woods, show ring, or any other venue and you breed it and sell the pups you will never come out ahead."  At least not me. Smiley

Joey
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2009, 12:43:53 pm »

Alot of good points have been made.

I breed my own dogs, however I don't call myself a breeder.
Over time I continue to learn from experience, testing and proving, not from reading about genetics.
 I know alot of people on the internet can quote facts they have read, and some apply the knowledge already developed by others, some even claim they carry over 60+ years of breeding off of somebody elses stock, and try to use that claim to further their own agenda. For several years, I gave pups away in order to get the dogs where I could keep track of the progress of the dog to maturity. The more time I have involved in the dogs, The more value I put on them. I see people that try to copy the same patterns, off of dogs of the same breeds and make the same or more money to others who know assume the dogs will be same thing just because it is made up of the same breeds, without the backgrounds. It is aggrivating. That is why I try to put dogs in hands of folks I am comfortable with, that care about the goal,  and where they came from and more importantly where they will end up. I know some others out there are the same way, and some that just tend to water down the genetics and sale pups, or use the oppertunity to bragg in one way or another.


The problem with Papers is that if you do the reseach and check out the lineage, to know it was a good dog and not just trust someone bred the dog because it had papers, or said "it is agood dog". It is a way to track bloodlines, however some can be fraudulant, as I have heard of people doing it, so there again, you have to know the integrity of the ones doing the breeding and how serious they researched the integrity of the lineage in the background. I have also heard of people breeding more than one male over a female, this in my mind, is also fradulant unless each pup is DNA tested, looks, & temperment is guesswork on a pup that has more than one potential sire. I can keep records, and I do, it is a pedigree even if it not papers from a kennel club.

The bottom line is the proof is in the puddin, not testing once or twice in a pen. Then that the next generation continues to be improved, generation after generation. The dollar amount should reflect on the quantity of the litter that can  prove itself and know it will also pass on the same genetics. 50% of litter turning out to be as good or better than its parents, is okay, but not worthy to re-breed in my opinion, how long does it take to prove that? IMO two years minimum. So when someone builds several generations and has a proven (not hear say) reputaiton for 90% or better of a litter, to prove better than parents, then you have a quality that is worth paying a decent price for. Alot of "sales pitches" claim pups working at 5 months old, I could care less about that, yeah if you know you are looking for it can be a slight indication of the dogs drive, but not a tell-tale sign. I want to see a dog perform at two years of age, then, and only then, should you decide if a dog is worthy. Any dog can bay, any dog can run around with its nose on the ground smelling, a true hunting dog is alot more than that.

So are you gonna spend $100 bucks on a pup out of two good parents? or $300 on a pup with several generations of the "stuff" that makes a dog a true hunting dog? After 18 months into raising a dog, if you do it right, you will have well over $300 bucks in a dog easy, so I guess it boils down to what your time is worth, do you want to keep starting from scratch every year, risking dissapointment or do you want to be invested in the same dog that will last you for years?

I feel sorry for all the new folks that "buy" on impulse, new folks that don't know one from the next, and the ones that just keep gambling with this breed or that cross. I have NO tolerance for the ones that buy the expensive puppy because they think that the more they spend the better it has to be, then feel they are gonna get their money back in turn by "breeding & saleing pups" to the next guy that are in the same position they once were.

So I guess there is a fool born everyday, and everyday someone will take advantage of that. knowingly or not, it is part of the game and I wish it was not. I am very passionate about this sport, the dogs I hunt with, and the dogs I produce. I wish more folks would take responsibilty for what they produce and how they turn out, might be less politicians working to regulate how & who breeds dogs.



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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2009, 12:56:01 pm »

Good post Krystal Wink


Alot of good points have been made.

 I can keep records, and I do, it is a pedigree even if it not papers from a kennel club.



That's it exactly...and the exact point I was trying to make in my previous post.
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2009, 02:03:52 pm »

For 100 bugs I would even not be able to deworm the puppy  - Hurra for the danish vet. prices...  Angry

We have for the dogos we make around 600-700  just in costs for each pup.
Maybe sound totally crazy to you guys, but it is nevertheless the truth. Include this is BAER test, pedigree, chips, dewormings, vaccines, food for 8 weeks, vet. check and health papers.

And then we did not calculate in all the costs that could be extra..if the mother need vet. attention, all the health tests we have to do to breed with pedigree, the mental test they all run through etc. etc..

Do I need to say we have the most happy vets in the world here....!

Once a italian breeder was here to get his female stud with one of our males, and she appeared not to be ready, so we went for a progesteron test at my vet.
Normally in Italy it was around 50 dollars. My vet. took the test and asked 150 dollars for it...my italian friend lost his temper for a bit and replied..."for this money, which one of your lovely assistants is included then! "

Birgitte
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2009, 06:07:25 pm »

I am glad to hear vets are the same in every part of the world!  Smiley

I try to avoid using them unless it is a necessary procedure that I cant do myself.  My vet around the house was my neighbor in college so I decided to give him some business and let him remove a tooth and suture my dogs gum line.  When I got the bill for 350.00 dollars I didnt raise too much ruckus because he was still driving that 1995 ford ranger that he had when we were in school together.  I gave him a little grief that he should be able to afford something nicer by now with those prices and he looked at me and said,"I am going to drive that thing until it or I quit working."  Then his bride pulled up in a new Range Rover and I let him have both barrels immediately! Smiley

Joey
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