Seasoned hunters, let's be real about pups.

[T-Bob Parker]

I've seen this issue since I first got into hog hunting with dogs and I will admit I've been guilty of it many times.
         Young guys wanting to show a pup a hog and forming expectations based on it.

#1 I have seen LOTS of young men who have pups under three months and already wanting that pup to be baying or catching.

#2 seeing guys with a potbellied pit pup who's barely off the tit and getting rid of it because it "didn't show no interest in the piglet"

#3 seen guys with a 4-7month old pup who has barked at a hog or been on a few hunts act like a pup a few times and their cussing and kicking it (usually because they told everybody he's started)

#4 guys buying lil Ol pups and immediately taking them to a Bay pen and being mad or disappointed that they don't knock your hat in the creek.


Now obviously, I'm not saying every one of these things are terrible or stupid, and often it's a ton of fun to see a lil Ol pup getting after it on a piglet, but what I'm gettin at is we need to remember that were working with dogs. Keep it fun, keep it age appropriate and have a good time, that's really what drew us all in in the first place right?

Reason I directed this towards the seasoned hunters is I'd like the teens to see what the older guys REALLY expect out of pups. I've been at It awhile, but I don't consider myself a seasoned hunter really because I still call chance or Josh or a few others and ask for advice. But let me ask y'all, how much do you actually expect of your pups? How many of you are of the let them be pups school of thought ad how many of y'all expect your 5-6 months olds to already be out there running with the pack?

[3Whoghunter]

Id like to hear the answers also. Good post T-Bob

[bigo]

I expect a 5 or 6 month old pup to be just that, a pup. When I was hunting hard and could turn loose several good dogs, a 6 month old pup wasn't physically able to keep up. They were also mentally inmature for the rough going and hogs in the wild. Starting a pup too early causes way more problems than positive things learned. Barking behind dogs because they can't keep up is one of the most common problems. Some of the best dogs I ever saw were started at 1 1/2 years old or older. I don't wait that long, just saying it dosn't hurt. Learn to observe and read dogs and they will tell you when they are ready.

[T-Bob Parker]

Thank you sir

[hoghunter71409]

I try to let my pups run loose for the first 7-8 months.  I try to get them to tree squirles, run rabbits, and I start showing them a caged coon about 6 months old.  After about 7 months, thay start going on hunts and I let them mess with caught hogs.  If the hog is small and cannot hurt the pup, I un hobble the hog in front of the pup and let them chase.  Somewhere between 8 mo to a year, I show them big sows in apen that can rough them up but not ruin them.  If they dogs learn the run game at a young age, bark at caught hogs and will bay the big sows, they are usually reay to go at 1 year.  Even at a year old, I am selective about the hogs I put them on.  Im not running a good young dog on a big boar or barr.  At 18 months old, I expect them to do most everything I want them to.  I've had a couple that could do it all at 18 months.  Dogs mess up too just like us and they all mature differently.  I think it is a REAL BAD idea to show 3 months old pups a hog.  No reason to get rid of a dog until they are 7 months for me.  They are just "baby" dogs and they need to be pups.  Pups need to tear things up and be pups.

[arrowbar]

the hardest thing about having a litter of pups is placing the pups in the right hands, people who can actually pull the potential of the pup out or know when to quit and start over. This is all saying that the parents are not just ok, not good but really good to great otherwise you still get junk pups and even in the best hands they may not be more than crap factories.

[halfbreed]

i've got an old male here that at 18 months old people wondered why i hadn't culled that dog , and at 2 1/2 years old wonder what i would take for it  lol you just have to be patient and quit trying to beat the rest the world to the end of the race . F.Y.I.  we ain't gonna run out of hogs . i give my gyps till a year or 18 months to show me what they got and if i like a male dogs personality 18 months to two years old is not out of line with me . like t-bob said you have got to have fun at this or you will never be satisfied and will wind up with nothing but heartaches and headaches . when i decided to start killin hogs i bought a few pups and it was two years before i felt confident enough in me and the dogs to hit the woods . relax and enjoy this sport .

[arrowbar]

halfbreed,
that is what I am talking about geting dogs into people who understand the dogs and give them a chance accordingly. I have seen many dogs ruined becuase they were forced to early.

[H.Wilson]

Im by no means a seasoned hunter but forcing a pup to hunt dogs get bored at a young age that is the reason for taking them away from the hog just as they are really getting started T-bob you have seen me with my two 5 month old pups one of them shows potential the other one has no interest yet but his mom didn't turn on Till 1 1/2 just likd you said its about having fun and getting to watch dogs grow into a good hog dog not trying to force it into them they have minds of their own and will do what they want

[charles]

 2 days after being weened, they should be out baying a 300lb boar with 6" cutters and holding till that pit still on the tit can run in and hit it like a frieght train. 
let them pups, it dont hurt to show'm a pig but expecting them to do the dos' of a 2-3yo is way off basis. even after a yr old some still act like pups, just gotta push through it and hope they get out of it, but only time will tell.
good topic t-bob

[halfbreed]

i know what you meen arrow . that is why when i sell some of my pups i give a one year garrenty on them . if you are not happy at a year old i'll by them back . in other words you feed them for me for a year and you don't like them i will refund  [ the purches price ] and have them back in my hands when they are ready to start rockin  lol and i will wind up with a dog i've got nothing invested in and is ready for me or someone to make  a dog out of it  . lol i made the mistake of a young man when i was young and gave up on dogs to soon and had those same dogs put in on me in the woods later on in life in the hands of other men . live and learn  lol

[TexasHogDogs]

What gets me is my dog is finished and he is 15-16-17- 18 months old .  BS!

A dog dont mature out till he is between 3 to 5 yrs old .

Pups are just pups man some start early some start late the key is ,   if your dog man wise enuff to know what you are looking at and have a feel for whos gonna do what when they get older .

[T-Bob Parker]

Well I gotta say, I have a tendency to say stuff the wrong way and people end up thinking I'm a knowitall or a idiot. I'm really glad this topic has come out exactly as I wanted it to, I thank each of you for your opinions and for really laying it out there for us younger guys to see.

Hunter, your probably the reason I tried to lay it as tactfully as possible. I saw your pups yes, but I have also seen your level of knowledge and you have more than proven every time that age don't have much to do with maturity. There are plenty if younger guys like him who have more dog sence than me and that's why I tried real hard to not come across as a prick.

At least for one thread

[Easttex91]

Man you guys don't know what this thread did for me I got a 6 month old pup I've been real down on cause the most I get out of him is some lazy barks while my gyp has them bayed up. He's a well bred well put together pup but still just a pup I guess. May take him away from the hogs for a few months. He goes in the pen on his own I don't force him so I don't think I've ruined him.

[redline]

Ive seen a lot of guys also be really hard on a young dog when it doesn't do what they think it should then they get low and sweet talk the dog just so it will come to them because it thinks it is going to get stomped. Or they toss it in a pen and it tries to climb out as the boar hog trashes it then they wonder why it won't bay a hog and is scared.

To many good dogs are ruined early let a pup be a pup. Train them young but keep it fun and don't over due it because they get bored.

With age comes endurance and confidence and keep the dogs out of a the pens!

"dog loves a hog but won't range out"
(yeah because all you do is toss it in a baypen it's waiting for you to find the hog and pen for it!)

[RyanTBH]

Good post T-Bob!

[KevinN]

With age comes endurance and confidence and keep the dogs out of a the pens!

"dog loves a hog but won't range out"
(yeah because all you do is toss it in a baypen it's waiting for you to find the hog and pen for it!)



Sigh.......another topic for another thread.

[T-Bob Parker]

Nah man, if it has to do with pup development, then go ahead and speak your mind.

I don't like playpens for a host if good reasons but if you have a good explanation of why they should be used then I welcome the input.

[T-Bob Parker]

Woops, BAY PENS not playpens, stupid autocorrect. 

[KevinN]

T-Bob, I've started a new thread already. Not going into detail but just opinion. As far as the reasons I use them? Time and control are two of the biggest.
Time - Now, this has mainly to do with the early culling process but It only takes a few minutes to run a whole litter of pups through the pen a few at a time just for simple evaluation. Do this a few times between 12 weeks and 16 weeks and make a cut. Do it again between 16 and 24 weeks and make your final cut. At 24 weeks (6months) it's of to the woods for training.  I'm not saying the dogs you cull won't make good dogs, but as much as I would like to I can't keep every pup.
Control - just what it says, a sixty foot round pen is easier to control than the open woods or an acre for that matter.
Fair enough?