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Reuben
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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2013, 11:56:39 am » |
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T bob, if you were askin me what I was sayin was that if I dont use catchy dogs that sill flat catch the hog where he finds it I wont get that hog unless it 20 miles later. When these hogs roll out my dogs and no dogs Ive seen yet will be able to catch up to that hog unless its many many miles later . These hogs are not like yours Im guessing, Now T bob, I say this with the utmost respect for you and your experience with hogs and dogs. You and I spoke of this before and you seemed skeptical that these hogs will get out a mile past the dogs, but it is a fact ! Now I aint no youngun like you mentioned but I hunt these hogs every week year roundn and know what Im sayin, I have not seen a dog yet that can consistently stop hogs here, if thT dog is in the world somewhere I want someone to show it to me and teach me about it. This is not me saying your wrong, this is me sayin please prove it to me so I can get on the right track ! These hogs will flat leave yur dogs ! They can chew o. his ass , tear his nutts off and he will flat blow out and not stop for miles ! These hogs will not bay up ! Its caught or gone ! Now if ya wanna come teach me I will pay for all expenses and take good care of ya while yur here ! Scott
you can have some good to great dogs and catch the pork in open woods and make it look easy...and this time of the year the woods open up and with the cooler weather the dogs do even better...but you take the same pack of dogs to those woods that are thick with all kinds of briars and vegetation and you might catch one every now and then...when the dogs start trailing they will fall behind and the hog gains ground and then he will stop and listen and rest...then when he hears the dogs getting close he will run again...and this hog is always looking for the thickest cover to run in...hog hunting is a tough and challenging sport...A few folks are lucky to have the good spots to run hogs in...but not many... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Reuben
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2013, 12:06:42 pm » |
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What type of dogs you working? Maybe a dog with more stock working ability would work better. I think alot of folks are breeding this quality out of dogs which is a bad thing in my mind. I dont believe its a rough or loose answer to the runner problem.
I with you on the stock dogs. Stock dogs should have the stamina and speed to work all day & be smart enough to hold the hogs with the rite amount of pressure. It is very frustrating. I believe this is right...stock dog sense with hunting dog sense...the dog needs to have that genetic inclination to do all it can to stop a runner and turn it back to the herd...and then back up and bay because it wants the hogs to stay put (GENETICS)...but the stock dog needs more than what I just mentioned...it needs the bottom, nose, and hunt of a good hunting dog...the problem with some of the hunting dogs is that they want to fight and try to kill the game which will then push the hog when the briars are thick...just can't get enough dogs there to catch the hog...and a good stock dog pack of 4 or 5 dogs should still be content holding the hogs in one spot... but will hammer down as needed...the perfect combination of stock dog and hunting dog traits is probably the best option... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2013, 12:20:42 pm » |
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My perfect dog is the same as yall speak of were I can go to the bay and watch the show . It just dont seem to work that way no more . I dont really know what the anwser is to all of this . I love fast, quick, loads of lungs , big bottom in all ranges Hell I love a real hog dog no matter what he is . All I know is things have changed and some ajustment and adjusting have to be made. We are all looking for the same thing lets just hope we can all find a happy medium if not a anwser. LOL
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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SwampHunter
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2013, 12:31:37 pm » |
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[ I believe the key to stopping runners lies in the legs, heart and brain rather than the jaws. I know I don't need to tell you any of this (texashogdogs) but for the young folks who decide they wanna " breed their own "line"" of gritty hog mualers,  they need to remember, IF THE DOG CAN'T CATCH UP TO THE HOG, IT AIN'T GONNA CATCH THE HOG. [/quote] That is the truth , the last 2 weekends my dog has got on big hogs in thick briars I mean miles of thickets an swampy stuff that I think is why the hogs will run they know they can slow dog down by staying in the thick stuff an they take a break while dog is coming to them then they run a little bit more its hard for a dog to move fast is alot of briars Now if you had a fast straight catch dog that could work as long as he didnt get drug off in the briars |
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Reuben
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2013, 01:18:40 pm » |
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The problem with running catch dogs is that they don't bay...just catch which is great...but a mile deep in the briars and palmettos and you have cut up dogs and dogs dying from heat exhaustion...the garmin helps but it won't get you there quick enough...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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smarlowe
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2013, 01:19:07 pm » |
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Reat, I was in GA a few weeks ago and had bout 6 dogs on a hog , they were in real thick brush on top of a hill, 2 of us busted buf up there but they went silent. A minute later fight breaks out at bottom of same hill so we run back down, their caught in a deep ditch ! one man jumps in, kills hog and we start tyin off dogs, I realize my joe dog is not here so I step out to listen and hear him bayin way way off. Run as hRd as I can 1000 yds or so and Joe has a big boar stopped on the edge of a swamp, he's circleing the hog and has had him there for 5-10 min. My buddy Nik had been there the whole time watching, he didnt have a gun or bulldog so he just watched. Fortunately one of the bulldogs followed me and as soon as I got there the 2 dogs caught the hog. Nik said every time the hog tried to run my birddog was biting him and keepin him there.It would not have gone down that way here at home, that hog woulda been 2 miles out and still pickin up speed !
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Reuben
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2013, 01:21:38 pm » |
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Not trying to be a nay sayer but I have seen both sides...and believe me...I have been frustrated over this one...it has a lot to do with terrain...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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smarlowe
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2013, 01:37:33 pm » |
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Rueben, everything I hunt is super thick, maybe I should try something more open ?
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 01:41:35 pm » |
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When the hog are hogs finally got to were they were going last nite a long long long ways away when me and my daughter got there. I had never been on that place and let me tell you what you could not stick a straight pin are a needle threw it . That has to be the tuffest place I have ever seen around here bar none never been there before. Horn was treed at about 950 yds and there is just no way in hell we could have got threw it and to him the hog are hogs would have heard us coming and been gone again . The big mystery how to stoppem before they get to this place. Who's gonna solve it ?
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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smarlowe
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2013, 01:56:44 pm » |
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rueben just mentioned terrain, where I hunt its all timbered hills that are normally open, with very thick clearcuts all over that are extremely thick ! crawl thru thick, because I hunt daytime I am usually around these clearcuts. I have never caught a hog in anything open here. Maybe if my dogs would hunt at night I could find some hogs in open timber but if they dont catch it right there it would surely make it into the thick stuff !
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Reuben
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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2013, 03:13:09 pm » |
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Not trying to be a nay sayer but I have seen both sides...and believe me...I have been frustrated over this one...it has a lot to do with terrain...
I bred and hunted some great dogs in my eyes...but the biggest obstacle bar none was consistently catching hogs...there was no doubt that my dogs were going to find a hog or stick with a track...but catching hogs had a lot to do with terrain...and educated hogs...this time of year is best for catching hogs in open country when the weeds are dead and down... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2013, 05:31:50 pm » |
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I tell ya the perfect deal for me is this . Running my main strike dog that will find the hog and bay not so gritty but will locate the hog and all the other dogs that are on the ground are some really really some bad mofo's when they get there it is on and then when we hear it and we turn loose the catch dogs if not a little before the bad mofo's get there, results caught hog . Then my main strike dog will roll off and get after some more hogs while we all take care of the downed hog . But I also like the really really ruff mofo's to be strike kind of dogs also out hunting and not waiting on the main find dog staying busy . I do not like running all bulldogs. I want my cur dogs to have this in them ruff bad mofo's maybe with a touch of bulldog in them fast quick agile lungs from hell and tuff as boot leather .
This is my perfect world of hog dogs here.
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The Old Man
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2013, 07:18:04 pm » |
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There is two ways to catch bad hogs, and we the hog hunters have created them as it is, with "packs of dogs" and "rough" dogs. Hogs are survivors, and a bunch of dogs or rough dogs force them to run in order to survive , so just use one or two dogs that will back up so the old bad hog thinks he can win or turn some lose that will catch and hold him where they find him, if they ever get to him in the first place.
If you have one truly good find dog that won't be constantly challenging a hog you will keep more bad running hogs bayed as long as they aren't just shoats. Someone earlier in this very post was telling about one of their dogs got way off to himself and had one of those runers bayed by himself for quite a while, that hog figured he could win against one dog. Just think about what you see and hear and then unless you just want them immediately caught where they are found quit turning a swarm of rough dogs loose in an attempt to "stop" hogs.
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Reuben
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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2013, 07:27:02 pm » |
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There is two ways to catch bad hogs, and we the hog hunters have created them as it is, with "packs of dogs" and "rough" dogs. Hogs are survivors, and a bunch of dogs or rough dogs force them to run in order to survive , so just use one or two dogs that will back up so the old bad hog thinks he can win or turn some lose that will catch and hold him where they find him, if they ever get to him in the first place.
If you have one truly good find dog that won't be constantly challenging a hog you will keep more bad running hogs bayed as long as they aren't just shoats. Someone earlier in this very post was telling about one of their dogs got way off to himself and had one of those runers bayed by himself for quite a while, that hog figured he could win against one dog. Just think about what you see and hear and then unless you just want them immediately caught where they are found quit turning a swarm of rough dogs loose in an attempt to "stop" hogs.
you are absolutely right...but I like running a pack of dogs... but I also believe in evolution...the flop eared big ham hogs that stopped to fight got caught and the russian type that run at the drop of the hat have got away to breed another day...the better the dogs the faster the evolution... skin and gut a hanging hog and take a look at the anatomy...you will see power, agility, and speed...and that skinned out hog has plenty of leg under him... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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TexasHogDogs
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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2013, 08:06:29 pm » |
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There is two ways to catch bad hogs, and we the hog hunters have created them as it is, with "packs of dogs" and "rough" dogs. Hogs are survivors, and a bunch of dogs or rough dogs force them to run in order to survive , so just use one or two dogs that will back up so the old bad hog thinks he can win or turn some lose that will catch and hold him where they find him, if they ever get to him in the first place.
If you have one truly good find dog that won't be constantly challenging a hog you will keep more bad running hogs bayed as long as they aren't just shoats. Someone earlier in this very post was telling about one of their dogs got way off to himself and had one of those runers bayed by himself for quite a while, that hog figured he could win against one dog. Just think about what you see and hear and then unless you just want them immediately caught where they are found quit turning a swarm of rough dogs loose in an attempt to "stop" hogs.
you are absolutely right...but I like running a pack of dogs... but I also believe in evolution...the flop eared big ham hogs that stopped to fight got caught and the russian type that run at the drop of the hat have got away to breed another day...the better the dogs the faster the evolution... skin and gut a hanging hog and take a look at the anatomy...you will see power, agility, and speed...and that skinned out hog has plenty of leg under him... Yes sir Reuben , and not to mention when you use one dog if you can get him stopped and bayed and send the catch dog as soon as these new generation bad boars see a catch dog coming its either turn and run like the wind are he will face and meet the dog head on head up and go underneath the dog head on and cut him on his way leaving outta there. I understand what the old man is saying I sure do and I use to do it and know many that have done it but the hogs have changed atleast around here they have its not like it use to be at all . |
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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YELLOWBLACKMASK
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« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2013, 09:35:20 pm » |
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Try them rough ones first. You will catch all the easy ones and sometimes a runner that has a brain fart. The rest requires running them until they have no air left in their lungs ....and then sticking the fire out of them to keep from having to repeat it again with that particular hog. Sometime even reinforcing the race by throwing out fresher dogs on into the race to keep the pressure on and cancel any plans the hog has made to catch any breaks. And dogs that will CLOSE instead of quit...........Probably half the reason the hog has learned to run in the first place is due to experiences with low bottomed dogs that wont put it on em. Same as alot of the above posts. They can't bay...or catch something that is already ahead of them without any intention of looking back.....unless their standing there when he does! Jmo  |
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Irondog87
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« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2013, 10:48:07 pm » |
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I heard that!! I've had to train my catch dog to do more then just run in and catch. Had him chase one with the bay dogs for a mile an I guess he turned to fight for just a second and my cd was right in his face when he turned. But that was at night, in the same place during the day the big ones never stopped to fight at all, I didn't get a chance to cut the cd loose at all. The hog went to another deer lease where dogs are not welcome so we had to call em off. Rough dogs are the way to go now! I back that up no doubt!
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!YELLA PRIDE!
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reatj81
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2013, 07:59:09 am » |
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In my area we have so many hogs a hog can usually run 1mi in any direction and be in another group of hogs and break the dogs off onto another hog. This makes it very difficult. Bottom will eventually catch hogs but it doesn't stop the initial hog very often.
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chads7376
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2013, 08:21:04 am » |
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IMO. Just one or two dogs on the ground. I haven't had any crazy long races this year going that route. I use a Stag for catch and he hasn't missed a hog yet that was bayed. I'm sure they have tried to run when he was coming in but good luck with that..
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boone823
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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2013, 09:18:06 am » |
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Rough dogs will help some. But not eliminate the problem. Depending on the hogs and terrain? It's not uncommon for us to run one for 10 plus miles with nothing but wore out dogs when I get to them or cut off. My dogs can be really rough sometimes and my old dog even Suicidal. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it hurts. I think that some hogs don't like the pressure and run like Hell. We hunt really thick cover which makes it hell on a dog.
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