THE GOING GETS TOUGH

[Noah]

A good friend of mine had a heck of a strike dog, a petite little redbone gyp that was as good a find dog as there was.  This dog would walk beside and BooHoo a hog all day long, but without something that would go to her and actually sit the hog down, you just weren't gonna walk a CD in and get anything done...

Loose baying is great if the dog is rough as hell, but if he isn't, it's just a find dog telling the hogs to get ready.

Is this the type of loose you're talking about Parker?

[Mike]

I've seen more hogs bay up with a dog that never touches it than with dogs that put there teeth on them. Whenever one gets too rough... it's off to the races. Now, some people that run rough dogs do catch a bunch of hogs... but the big ones usually wreck their pack and walk away. I ran rough dogs for several years when I first started... then I seen the light.

We can debate this all day long, there's no right way or wrong way. As long as you're catching hogs with you're dogs... that's all that matters.

And all this is from my experiences... not offend anyone.

[Noah]

Mike, so with a single, loose, soft dog like that, how do you ever get close enough to turn a CD to him?  It would seem you'd have to turn in to him from a long way out?

[buddylee]

I hunt some fairly smart hogs here in Georgia. They tend to run easily. My  main female won't hardly put a tooth on a hog and I lost a lot of hogs because of that. But I learned from this. She is a close range dog so I have found some close range, really gritty/catchy dogs to go with her. If she can keep them bayed for 15 seconds, I have some muscle running loose that stop those runners. If they get there in time, I catch 9 out of 10 hogs. Doing this our main strike dogs rarely get hurt. The stop dogs get hurt of course but that comes with their job. I like to run one main strike dog and several stop dogs so we don't get multiple bays going on which would split the stop dogs up. I just bought a Garmin and plan to use it on our strike dogs so we can better follow them with the catch dogs and any stop dog that may be hanging close to us.

[Mike]

Just ease in... but a lot of times that's tricky to do depending on the terrain. Sometimes you get lucky and they catch... but a lot of times the hogs hears/sees the dog coming and leaves the couhtry. But, a rough dog putting pressure on the hog... the race is on from the get go.

Like I said, these are my views from my experiences.

[Mike]

And one more thing i'd like to add... and I think Parker stated it on another post. Hogs that run a long ways stop when they want to stop... not because a dog stops them.

Think about when and where they finally bay up... if they do.

[WAARHEID]

From a strictly scientific perspective it is likely that this is happening, and will continue to get worse. If you impose a selection criteria on a species, the trajectory of that species will be effected. Anyone know of anyone suffering with a "MRSA" infection?

Medicine isn't the only place we see this. We see it on the hunt too. Over time, we've watched the wild bred ringnecks become nearly flightless birds. 30-40 years of "if it flies it dies" will do that.

The bad news for hog hunters, due to generational cycles and other factors, the evolutionary "clock" for Suidae should be slower than for Pheasents, and much slower than Staphylococcus. So if feral swine are being selected by human/canine hunting patterns for bay-breaking runners, then we've only seen the beggining, it will only get worse in the coming decades.

Hopefully, this is actually not happening though, because if it is, and you combine that with the effects of suburban sprawl and rural land development (which will only get worse in coming years), we will find ourselves in a situation where we need super gritty bottomless running catch dogs, but then not be able to run them because every five minutes the race will cross a property line.

Will we be trading in our dog boxes for hog traps in a decade or two? I doubt it... we could probably have a whole 'nother conversation about trap-wise hogs, LOL!!!

[Noah]

Hopefully, this is actually not happening though, because if it is, and you combine that with the effects of suburban sprawl and rural land development (which will only get worse in coming years), we will find ourselves in a situation where we need super gritty bottomless running catch dogs, but then not be able to run them because every five minutes the race will cross a property line.

You just described south Florida suburbia to a tee... and their grass patch dogs

[Eric]

If my dogs go 1 mile and quit... so and so-s dogs go 5 miles... who teaching the hogs to run further? That is unless people with bottomless dogs catch every hog they ever strike?  

HUNTING PRESSURE MAKES HOGS RUN. No matter short or long range. You put a dog that will go 1 mile the hogs will go 2... you get a dog that goes 2 the hogs will go 3... so on until you eventually you run out of land... because they won't.   When you have 25 people hunting an area where there use to be 3 the hogs are going to get smart... no matter how they hunt.

[Mike]

Will we be trading in our dog boxes for hog traps in a decade or two?

No sir, we're usually called in after the trappers can't get the job done. Most hogs these days are trap smart and we've proven this many times over running dogs in conjunction with trapping.

[mutt hunter]

From a strictly scientific perspective it is likely that this is happening, and will continue to get worse. If you impose a selection criteria on a species, the trajectory of that species will be effected. Anyone know of anyone suffering with a "MRSA" infection?

Medicine isn't the only place we see this. We see it on the hunt too. Over time, we've watched the wild bred ringnecks become nearly flightless birds. 30-40 years of "if it flies it dies" will do that.

The bad news for hog hunters, due to generational cycles and other factors, the evolutionary "clock" for Suidae should be slower than for Pheasents, and much slower than Staphylococcus. So if feral swine are being selected by human/canine hunting patterns for bay-breaking runners, then we've only seen the beggining, it will only get worse in the coming decades.

Hopefully, this is actually not happening though, because if it is, and you combine that with the effects of suburban sprawl and rural land development (which will only get worse in coming years), we will find ourselves in a situation where we need super gritty bottomless running catch dogs, but then not be able to run them because every five minutes the race will cross a property line.

Will we be trading in our dog boxes for hog traps in a decade or two? I doubt it... we could probably have a whole 'nother conversation about trap-wise hogs, LOL!!!

i agree. just like we breed dogs that have a lot of "hunt" in them. the majority of hogs left breeding are the ones that have a lot of "run" in them. the ones that dont have enough run in em are dead or going to be dead.

[Bryant]

Mike, I agree with you.  I hunted for a long, long time with a single dog and rifle and would say that I shot 99% of the hogs we struck within 100 yards of where we heard the first bark.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...granted, things have changed and evolved but sometimes the problem isn't the hogs so much as the dog(s).

[pig snatcher]

What MIke said is verry true about using one dog, and hogs stopping where they want to.

As far as dogs sticking with a hog, you have to have that here.  Like I have said before, your fastest most gritty dog is no better than a beagle in a brair patch.  They just have to stay with the hog till things work out in their favor and they catch him out in the open or he decides to stop and fight.  Porky will giggle and laugh at a 30 minute dog in some of these big briar choked blocks of planted pines.

[Eric]

Every situation is different. You hunt one dog here and the hog will run circles around you staying just out of catch dog reach... and there are dogs out there that can stop hogs.

[WAARHEID]

Like I have said before, your fastest most gritty dog is no better than a beagle in a brair patch.

ain't that the truth...

[got2catchem]

With all these running hogs maybe things will kinda go back to how alot of old timers hunted, when they ran wolf dogs. There is a guy I stop in an talk to every now and then, I reckon he is around 86 yrs young. I always enjoy sitting around and listening to stories he tells. At one time, he claims that he took care of almost 50 dogs. July hounds, running walkers etc... He's told me before that it wasnt unusual to run a wolf or yote all day long or night. They would sit at the road, build a fire and drink coffee and shoot the breeze, untill the dogs got it bayed or caught and killed. If it sounded like the dogs were getting tired, they would just turn fresh ones out and they would resume the track.

[skoalbandett]

A lot of t hings been said here, some I agree with some I dont, but One thing I dont recall seeing said  is this:
What about the fact a dog, any breed of  dog  you want to name, can not out run a hog in the briars, thorn patches, berry vines,honey suckle patches ,some of these thick woods and swamps  in this country. A dog can not even attempt to stop one unless they can get up on him, that is another reason for the longer races we see in those types of areas. A hog can sometimes get a big head start on them when he breaks, depending on the situtation. And yes, even the very best catch dogs  miss or get slung off or get killed. That is another reason for dogs that will stick with it, has a good nose , lots of bottom bottom and will and can run a track. There are cur dogs that can , will and do just exactly that.
I can see running catch dogs that come back if they go 300 yards and cant catch up could be a plus for some folks due to size of a place and other possible limitations. If a man is gettin paid to take hogs out, why not just shoot em all in front of the dogs to begin with or bait em and spot light em at night to
sh oot em.. I mean at some point t he dog work really isnt what's most  important to some people, numbers of hogs on the g round seems to be.. If it ever gets that way for me, I will quit. The dogs ability, preformance and the actual Dog work in all kinds of conditions is all it's about for me.
Now hunting  basically open country,  or if a hog is running through a wide open Pin oak bottom or across a open pasture, the dogs can get up on him to catch him if thats your prefered way or in my case, I want them to get ahold,  stop em and get back and bay, then bay him right and waitt on us to get there and lead the catch dog in.  I will tell you for a fact, a running catch dog loose in this country is ONLY one thing, a dead dog walking. It aint  if, it's when.. It may take you 30 minutes to an hour to get to bay or a caught dog in this country if you run loose catch dogs.  There are no roads through some of these woods,   you cant run fast enough t hrough this stuff to stay up with them,  over and through  big creeks, bottoms , across the end of lakes and through  big swamps.I think you all know what is gona happen to a dog caught even 15 minutes on a bad boar hog or the right hog.

[Eric]

When your dogs go for 3, 4, 5 miles,,,, how do you know you killed the same hog you started?