What is a good hog dog??? and why so many culls???

[Reuben]

The goal here is to educate/learn so maybe there won't be so many culls out there...the more input the more clear it becomes...

WHAT IS A GOOD HOG DOG??? to put it real simple...take the dog hunting by itself...and if that dog finds and bays hogs and sticks to the track as long as it takes to bay the hog and you walk in and shoot the hog or catch it with a bull dog then you have a hog dog...and if the dog has the knack to find one rather quickly is a plus...

WHY ARE THERE SO MANY CULLS??? lots of reasons...but if we would honestly evaluate our hog dogs and we tested our dogs solo in the field and it hunted and produced hogs just like I mentioned above...then this dog can be further evaluated towards breeding rights...

constantly cross breeding is not the way to go...

handling can make or break a dog...

BUT HOW CAN WE BREED BETTER DOGS IF WE DON"T KNOW WHAT A REAL HOG DOG SHOULD BE???

not trying to pick on anyone...just trying to help in rasing the bar...heck there are some doggers that have been in the game a good while and don't oops losing signal... 

[KevinN]

The goal here is to educate/learn so maybe there won't be so many culls out there...the more input the more clear it becomes...

WHAT IS A GOOD HOG DOG??? to put it real simple...take the dog hunting by itself...and if that dog finds and bays hogs and sticks to the track as long as it takes to bay the hog and you walk in and shoot the hog or catch it with a bull dog then you have a hog dog...and if the dog has the knack to find one rather quickly is a plus...

WHY ARE THERE SO MANY CULLS??? lots of reasons...but if we would honestly evaluate our hog dogs and we tested our dogs solo in the field and it hunted and produced hogs just like I mentioned above...then this dog can be further evaluated towards breeding rights...

constantly cross breeding is not the way to go...

handling can make or break a dog...

BUT HOW CAN WE BREED BETTER DOGS IF WE DON"T KNOW WHAT A REAL HOG DOG SHOULD BE???

not trying to pick on anyone...just trying to help in rasing the bar...heck there are some doggers that have been in the game a good while and don't oops losing signal... 

Reuben....you and I see eye to eye on alot...especially regarding selection, training, etc.

One thing I question is the cross breeding. I KNOW there are plenty of pure breeds out there that are "Hog Dogs" and do exactly what your talking about...BUT....

IMO there is nothing wrong with crossing to achieve a goal. ALL.....ALL.....ALL....breeds we hunt with today were crossed to make them what they are.

[hillbilly]

I lke the kinda dog you talking about for myself but that dog is not what everyone likes. For instance if I had lots of hogs I would want dogs that wouldn't quite go so far. That way they could come on back and let's get another.

[cantexduck]

 I figured a little mountain cur would make any dog a hog dog.

[BA-IV]

I figured a little mountain cur would make any dog a hog dog.

 

[YELLOWBLACKMASK]

Alot of folks forgot how to sharpen a shovel when the time comes.

The pet aspect seems to get confused with tools of the trade since hunting has become mostly recreational

[Reuben]

Kevin your right about all dogs were crossbred at one time or another...If I were to hunt catahoulas or bmc the first thing I would do is put some walker or plott in there...

most mt curs are too small for my liking so a little walker or plott will fix that...but I believe that once we develop a line of dogs we then must do our best to line breed or inbreed to reproduce what is working...the linebreeding will eventually clean up the gene pool so that we are producing a higher than average percentage of what we want in a hog dog...I tend to look at hog dogs from the breeding side of it...

my goal is always the same...to have a hog dog that is worthy of breeding so that it can help me to the next level...whether I am breeding 3 litters a year or 1 litter every 3 years...

[hoghunter71409]

I typed a big long response and then deleted the whole thing.  I was trying to be nice about it but I am going to be straight to the point.

We have so many culls becuase we have a lot of ignorant, irresponsible people out there breeding and selling culls.  They are breeding and selling culls becuase thier are more ignorant people out there buying the culls that are for sale.  Guess what the ignorant buyer does....yep, sells the dog as something that it is not or breeds it again to sell some more pups.

Ok, there may be a couple of decent dogs out there for sale on sites like this.  But I am here to tell you, the good hog dogs that you mention are not for sale.  For all you young bucks out there that want to know how to avoid buying a cull, you have to buy the dogs that are not for sale.  Go to the woods with a pocket full of money and buy a hog dog in the woods.


Just look at some of the topic headings...(Need Gone Now), Started Dog for sale, barked at a pig in a pen.

Come on guys...why would you buy something that someone else wants gone fast?  A started dog isnt a dog that barked in a pen once.

I could keep going and going.  It makes me sick what I see out there.  Saddest part is people are not researching anything they buy.  There is a girl on here that was selling a lot of stuff last year.  I asked her why and she said she was getting out.  Still to this day she is peddling dogs. 

Ok, I am done now.  Some people ought to be ashamed of what tye are doing.

[KevinN]

Kevin your right about all dogs were crossbred at one time or another...If I were to hunt catahoulas or bmc the first thing I would do is put some walker or plott in there...

most mt curs are too small for my liking so a little walker or plott will fix that...but I believe that once we develop a line of dogs we then must do our best to line breed or inbreed to reproduce what is working...the linebreeding will eventually clean up the gene pool so that we are producing a higher than average percentage of what we want in a hog dog...I tend to look at hog dogs from the breeding side of it...

my goal is always the same...to have a hog dog that is worthy of breeding so that it can help me to the next level...whether I am breeding 3 litters a year or 1 litter every 3 years...

Again....we're on the same page! I agree with you 100%!

Once you achieve YOUR perfect dog...you stick with it until its necessary to outcross.

[T-Bob Parker]

Alot of folks forgot how to sharpen a shovel when the time comes.

The pet aspect seems to get confused with tools of the trade since hunting has become mostly recreational

That's the whole reason for it in my opinion. I had alot of dogs in the past and I woogie woogie wuvved thems, yes I did, yes I did!   I got attached to them, let my wife get attached to them and let my feelings for them cloud my judgement of their piss poor performances.

I have since then learned the value of saying $&@" it! Click click boom.

[Curcross1987]

A good hog dog is one you can tak it and a catch dog and consistently catch hogs

[KevinN]

Reuben...on the cull side of your question....

You were right about the handling of the dog....it's just as easy to mess a dog up as it is to bring ones potential out...probably easier. Definitely not all the issue but a small part.

[Reuben]

I figured a little mountain cur would make any dog a hog dog.

your catching on...  JK 

[halfbreed]

   well yeller black feller   lol    hit the nail on the head hunting has become  RECREATIONAL  folks don't depend on a dog to bring home the bacon we have Wal-Mart for that now . and as such a  mediocore dog will supply most all the fun they can handle . the old saying even a blind squirrel can find a nut comes to mind . most this new age dog folks have not the intestinal fortitude to cull a dog these days . heck I have even gotten a little soft in my old age  lol . concerning old dogs that I don't hunt , to clear that last remark up . if you don't like or can't get out of what you want in a purebred dog a cross  out of the breed will most likely help you on your way . but then it needs to be pulled together and lined out at some point . there has been a dog producing and selling explosion to coincide with the hog population boom we have witnessed as of late and it is to be expected . but it is buyer beware as usual it is not a new scenario , I witnessed the same thing when fur prices went thru the roof and the dog jockeys were in full swing then as now . and then as now there are ALOT  of good dogs for sale but at a price , and some can be had at a hell of a bargain but not many . divorce and moving sales and such . a good dog for any man is a dog that can consistently be turned out and produce pork on a regular basis . but the buyer has to be informed about wether the dog mentioned for sale will hunt HIS STYLE since there are so many .  everybody that has a pack of dogs should at some point evaluate each dog individually  . my views are as such any dog that will not or cannot be dropped on it's own and hunt up and find a hog is not a hog dog .   problem I have noticed is the new comers are in way too big a hurry to get into this and want to make a name for themselves with that [ SPECIAL CROSS ] of world beaters that everybody just has to have  . heck i'm still in the F-! stage in my breedings been to f-2 and f-3 but had to back up and start over to meet something I was lacking , [ tree-power ] as well as tracking and baying  this is a long road with many sacrifices most aren't willing to make . a cross that doesn't work should be labeled as such and the proper actions taken at all cost .  but allas like I said a lot of intestinal fortitude lacking these days  ..    more later lol

[jhy]

I bet you can get a better answer and idea if you come to Randy Bumpur's Tournament. A lot of solid dogs there and plenty of culling practices and whatever most of them boys are doing is obviously right!

[TexasCornBread]

Alot of folks forgot how to sharpen a shovel when the time comes.

The pet aspect seems to get confused with tools of the trade since hunting has become mostly recreational

That's the whole reason for it in my opinion. I had alot of dogs in the past and I woogie woogie wuvved thems, yes I did, yes I did!  I got attached to them, let my wife get attached to them and let my feelings for them cloud my judgement of their piss poor performances.

I have since then learned the value of saying $&@" it! Click click boom.

Haha . Now terry that's funny . Click click boom !

[txhogsanddogs]

I bet you can get a better answer and idea if you come to Randy Bumpur's Tournament. A lot of solid dogs there and plenty of culling practices and whatever most of them boys are doing is obviously right!

YOU have got to stop talking about this hunt this weekend!  After scouting last night, i already can't sleep!!!  The more i read about your excited attitude it's make me that more excited!!  Stop PLEASE!!!   

[Irondog87]

That's the whole reason for it in my opinion. I had alot of dogs in the past and I woogie woogie wuvved thems, yes I did, yes I did!   I got attached to them, let my wife get attached to them and let my feelings for them cloud my judgement of their piss poor performances.

I have since then learned the value of saying $&@" it! Click click boom.
[/quote]

Took the words right out of my mouth!!
My fiancé gets attached to some of the dogs and I have to STRESS to her that I'm not running a dog rescue! I've only been doggin for four years but I've asked for advise from some of the dog men that's been doing it for 20++ and all o them say CULL HARDER!!!
 And yes some dogs mature faster then others but u need to set boundaries that u will not pass in their age. I was told that there should be culling stages, and DON'T MAKE EXCUSSES FOR YOUR DOGS PISS POOR PROFORMANCE!! And yeh you are going to cull some dogs that will turn out to be great strike dogs when that switch finally goes off in their head to hunt hard.  but that still wouldn't be considered a breeder correct? It would be better to have dogs hunting hard by themselves by one year to one and a half years old or even younger. The dog men that have achieved this are the ones that have pups striking hogs solo on a regular basis. Words to go by CULL HARDER BREED SMARTER

I'm always willing to learn more and I'm the first one to jump at the opertunity to talk too a doggin vet so if anything I mentioned should be inhanced or changed please tell me. I'm the last person to get butt hurt over advise:)

[b.b.b kennels]

Nowhere near the experiance from dog breeding as most you, and definatley nowhere close to putting down the amount of hogs as most of you,
 But......have made about a thousand mistakes when it comes to my dogs and have been fortunate enough to learn from them, as well as seeing some of the old timers who have put together Awesome lines of dogs.  Successful dogmen all seem to have three major things in common.

1. Breed the Best dogs you Have acess to. This does not mean your two best dogs that occasionally bump a pig.  If I have ONE dog worth breeding, which in all honesty, 50% of us do not, then Im going to breed it to the absolute best dog I can find, NOT my 2nd place potlicker. They dont breed every horse who wins a race or Every rodeo bull who bucks someone off. Why breed every dog that can find a hog. Look at what the coon hunters did for decades. They used World Champions and bloodlines that had been proven Over and Over again to produce Athletic, Instictive power hounds that were steadily better than the previous generations in most cases.  We are regressing in a lot of cases. Read up on the old lines of curs from the late 1800s to the 1970s and tell me we have hounds like that nowadays.  The ones who would of been able to make it on those guys' yards are few and far between.  Alot of dogs nowadays would meet the click click boom if given to those who established these lines of dogs we use today.

 2. CULL your litters. The great ones would rather bury an inferior dog 50 feet down a well than let someone else buy it for Any amount of money. Who on this board has never sold a dog to someone because that dog had flaws that were obvious to you? That dog then enters the system, going from yard to yard teaching their bad habbits to generations of younger dogs and maybe even eventually ending up on some young man's yard who then breeds it to a gyp because she got 4th at some bay pen.  Then you get a litter of idiots and rejects who also enter the system. Selling a bum dog to someone is the Greatest Sin of Dog Men.

3.  Push your dogs harder than the generation before.  Every man deserves one great dog and one great woman.  but after Ol'__________ (insert name) has past on, you cant become content with breeding his offspring over and over again and getting pups that are as good or a hair under him/her.  Everyone loses dogs in this game, some before we can pass on their genetics. but if you think that your program peaked and now you are just maintaining what you have, then whats the point of raising dogs then? The men that established the lines of dogs that we pulled from never settled with just a "good pack of dogs".

Im aware how preachy and concided this comes off but Read it and tell me Im lieing.
I've made alot of mistakes starting out, just trying to keep someone from making the same.

[djhogdogger]

Alot of folks forgot how to sharpen a shovel when the time comes.

The pet aspect seems to get confused with tools of the trade since hunting has become mostly recreational

That's the whole reason for it in my opinion. I had alot of dogs in the past and I woogie woogie wuvved thems, yes I did, yes I did!   I got attached to them, let my wife get attached to them and let my feelings for them cloud my judgement of their piss poor performances.

I have since then learned the value of saying $&@" it! Click click boom.

X2  The reason that you don't see a bunch of sorry, no hunting coyotes is because they would starve to death. Mother nature culls hard.  If we culled ( take out of the gene pool ) as hard as mother nature then we would have some good dogs.