What is a good hog dog??? and why so many culls???

[Reuben]

Alot of folks forgot how to sharpen a shovel when the time comes.

The pet aspect seems to get confused with tools of the trade since hunting has become mostly recreational

That's the whole reason for it in my opinion. I had alot of dogs in the past and I woogie woogie wuvved thems, yes I did, yes I did!   I got attached to them, let my wife get attached to them and let my feelings for them cloud my judgement of their piss poor performances.

I have since then learned the value of saying $&@" it! Click click boom.

X2  The reason that you don't see a bunch of sorry, no hunting coyotes is because they would starve to death. Mother nature culls hard.  If we culled ( take out of the gene pool ) as hard as mother nature then we would have some good dogs.

Amen...praise the Lawd...mother nature does not make mistakes... 

[sdillard]

BUT its got a lot to do with style of hunting. Some people love a long range all the bottom u can have type of dog but then others don't. Some like loose baying dogs some dont. So we breed to the style of dogs we like. So who is to say what a real hog dog is?  Some dog that produce a lot of hogs are far from being hog dogs they are just put down in a spot with a lot of hog. Then someone sees this guy putting pics up of all these hogs he has caught and thinks that he has to have the real deal when its not true. So when and how do we know when a dog is the real deal and breed worthy?

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[sdillard]

To me a dog that barks on track is a cull but i hear other people saying that it dont bother them. I have very rough dogs and to some they would be culls but they fit my style and my likings. So i just would like to know what some of yall call a hog dog and breed worthy?

[TazD]

I feel a Good Hog Dog is a dog that can and will consistantley find and stop hogs by itself whereever it is hunted as long as there are hogs in the area.   Your personal prefance of silent or open, rough or bay, has nothing to do with being a cull or if its a Good Hog Dog!!! Its about finding and stopping hogs by itself consistantly!!!!!!

I have sold a few and given some away that I kept the breeding rights to, that for one reason or other did not suit my hunting style. But they were Good Hog Dogs that the other person that got them says are Jam Up, and are their best dogs!! Do not beleive that people do not sell/free good dogs because they do. Not everyone, but honest hunters do!! One mans Cull is another mans Star does have some merit to it....

[sdillard]

That is what I'm getting at. I have hunted behind dog that other people thought the world of and they where far from that in my eyes. And the whole produce hogs constantly thing has a big hole in it to bc of hog population. I have taken culls to a heavy populated area and they shined. It's all about personal goals. I breed what I have bc I like what I have not bc what some one else thinks and I'm sure that why most of us breed our dogs.

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[sdillard]

And to me it has everything to do with personal preference. And I think it should with everyone else to. Don't just think a dog is a hog dog BC so and so said it was, don't just think it is a hog dog BC so and so posted pics of all these hog he has caught. Its a hog dog when u r happy calling it one.

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[Cajun]

Taz said:
I feel a Good Hog Dog is a dog that can and will consistantley find and stop hogs by itself whereever it is hunted as long as there are hogs in the area.   Your personal prefance of silent or open, rough or bay, has nothing to do with being a cull or if its a Good Hog Dog!!! Its about finding and stopping hogs by itself consistantly!!!

 I agree completely. That is a good dog. However GREAT dogs can make good dogs look bad.lol It does boil down to personal selection & what u want in a dog.

[bigo]

I have bred dogs for many years and have learned two things. The first being, no matter what you start with or how you breed them, dogs will gravitate to average over time. The second being, after hunting with great and really good dogs, you realize average is not all that good. The sad part is, people are hunting and breeding dogs that would not make the cut back when dogs were needed to survive. I know it's due to the land and hunting situations of today but it's still sad that the the get it done or die trying dogs or disappearing.

[Reuben]

I have bred dogs for many years and have learned two things. The first being, no matter what you start with or how you breed them, dogs will gravitate to average over time. The second being, after hunting with great and really good dogs, you realize average is not all that good. The sad part is, people are hunting and breeding dogs that would not make the cut back when dogs were needed to survive. I know it's due to the land and hunting situations of today but it's still sad that the the get it done or die trying dogs or disappearing.

bigo...I agree on 2 things you are saying...if left on their own, dogs will gravitate back to average...but if bred right..the dogs will improve beyound where one starts a breeding program...I truly believe that...

and in reality for me there are no such thing as an average hunting dog because that dog belongs with the culls...now there are times that we must tolerate that dog until the right replacement comes along...and...that average dog shouldn't be bred because it begits more of its kind...which is a dog that is a cull or on the replacement list...

[bigo]

Show me a breeder who has bred hunting dogs for many years who gets all good dogs and no average dogs. Most breeding programs start with a supper cross and with hard hunting and ruthless culling you up your chances of produceing the great and real good dogs, but you still have to sort through the average ones to find them. You may up the quality of your average dogs some but you will still get them. You can take average dogs from a good family and with good selection, improve them over time but you can't take great dogs and keep them all comming great.

[TazD]

dillaard. Of course if a dog is hunted on a over populated property with feeders everywhere a average dog will find hogs. I think we are talking about a hunting spot where its not over run and a dog has to hunt to find hogs! a natural setting of big woods or swamps is what I was talking about. I do not keep a yard full of dogs, and when I hunt its with 1-3 dogs. Most of the time its 1 dog out and leading a catchdog. I hunt for the dog work, the hog is the by product of the hunt.. Could care less if I kill another hog, its all about watching a puppy grow up from my breeding, and  turn in to a Jam Up Hunting Dog!!!

Cajun. Nice talking with you yesterday. This is Guy. I agree with you on the Great dog making average look bad. I have only had one dog that I felt was that for my style of hunting!! Caught almost 400 hogs hunting him by himself in less then 4yrs in a area that you better have a Jam Up dog or you would not being catching any of them!!! I always judge my dogs to him which does not fair well for the other dogs. Hopefully I will get what I am looking to produce in the next few years like we talked about!!


Bo and Zena. This is all I needed to get it done where ever I hunted!!

[Reuben]

Show me a breeder who has bred hunting dogs for many years who gets all good dogs and no average dogs. Most breeding programs start with a supper cross and with hard hunting and ruthless culling you up your chances of produceing the great and real good dogs, but you still have to sort through the average ones to find them. You may up the quality of your average dogs some but you will still get them. You can take average dogs from a good family and with good selection, improve them over time but you can't take great dogs and keep them all comming great.

I agree that great dogs are hard to reproduce...they are too far away from the normal to reproduce consistently...above average can be the normal to a certain extent...but breeding a once in a lifetime dog and getting pups like him is like winning the lotto...

[hillbilly]

Show me a breeder who has bred hunting dogs for many years who gets all good dogs and no average dogs. Most breeding programs start with a supper cross and with hard hunting and ruthless culling you up your chances of produceing the great and real good dogs, but you still have to sort through the average ones to find them. You may up the quality of your average dogs some but you will still get them. You can take average dogs from a good family and with good selection, improve them over time but you can't take great dogs and keep them all comming great.

I agree that great dogs are hard to reproduce...they are too far away from the normal to reproduce consistently...above average can be the normal to a certain extent...but breeding a once in a lifetime dog and getting pups like him is like winning the lotto...

Not all dogs can throw good pups

[sdillard]

Taz I understand what u r saying. But if I had permission to hunt some of the marsh right here by me I could catch 400 hogs in a year with a dog i know should not ever be bred bc he is not good enough to earn breeding rights. And if I put the pics on this site of every hog I caught people would think that this dog is a stud. And by what I have read on here that is kind of what happen to the "famous" Ben dog that he was a cull that now is one of the most popular bred cur dogs that people spend a lot of money just to get a portion of his blood. Was he breed worthy?

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[TazD]

dillard you are just wanting to argue over hunting over populatated areas. Your not listening to what I said about places that the hog population is not high and still having a dog that produces hogs. You would not catch 400 hogs where I hunt, I promise you that. I understand what your saying. I see it on the forums. Caught 15 hogs yesterday, I got the best Jam Up dogs in the state, and then you see a video of them walking away from baying a pig.. LOL  I am not talking about those hunting areas or dogs. I do not hunt BMC so I could care less about the over Promoted Ben dog.. Good hunting my friend!!! Hunt and breed what makes you happy!!!!

[sdillard]

I'm not trying to argue I just see a lot of people that think just Bc someone on some web site post a lot of pics of caught hogs that they must have great dogs, and want some of that blood. 

[Reuben]

why is it that when breeding redbones all dogs are red and all pups are born red???maybe different shades of red but red...

or black and tan coon hounds...

we are 100 percent sure what color these 2 breeds will reproduce...because all know what red is...all know what black and tan is...no problem, unless we are color blind...

why is it that breeding hunting traits is so hard??? probably because not everyone has the same standards, preferrances, know how...it is not in black and white...

[KevinN]

Yessir

[Shotgun wg]

To me a real hog dog is predictable and dependable. It will find hogs if hogs are there. It will bay that hog and hold him till u are there. It should roll out on command. I don't have a dog like this and I doubt I have a dog that could produce one like this. I also have no intention of breeding what I have. My dogs will find hogs they will hold it till I get there. Rolling out? Nope. I have one that will do this on his own but he isn't consistent. At the same time all my dogs are less than 2 and haven't been on a ton of hogs but I still know at best they may be decent dogs one day.

[TexasHogDogs]

Why is there so many culls?  Because you got people with no experience what so ever breeding dogs and calling them great when really they are probably not even average.

Why is this because they have no experience no hands on training and no dog back ground what so ever to stand on .

Back in the day you had to learn what a great dog was before you ever even thought about breeding a pair of dogs.  Back in the day you had to be a handler of dogs before you ever thought about breeding a pair of dogs so you would know what a great dog was .  Back in the day  you had to know what a conditioned dog was and not something that was starved down ticking time bomb .  Back in the day you learned from hands on experience and from the older mentors men of the game in both handling dogs and breeding dogs and not read a book on genetics and think you were the next world class breeder of great dogs .  A lot of things you read on paper you can take it and wipe your butt with its worthless.  Back in the day you learned these things from hands on experience and from listening and not talking because until you did anything are produced anything you were at the bottom of the chit hole and nobody cared what you thought are thunk !   Back in the day there were no want adds were just anybody with skin could sell dogs are culls all over the world , back then you knew who was who from face to face meetings and seeing their dogs work in person not like now a days and  shanking hands on the www and calling it good !

There were no Puter Jockeys breeding dogs and the great world wide web at the push of a button to sell them .

Just me man !