Trash Breaking

[Bowtech99]

Anybody have any pointers on trash breaking a dog? Had a 2 mile race tonight because my ticks thought it would be fun to run a deer. We was hunting a peanut feild and the farmer called wanting to plant corn but needed hogs gone they rootin bad. So we loaded up, after riding 12,000acres half the day for 1 hog track we decided the feild would be best.

Wasnt any access roads so once the dogs got in there about 1000yds they stopped figured they was bayed, so it was to hoof it in thru this jungle, everytime we'd get 500yds they'd break, happened several times. we went in at dusk, forgot flashlights at truck so we couldnt stop an check tracks. 2 miles later and pitch black dark got within 50yds of dogs an called em off. either 2 mile walk back to truck or 1 mile walk to road, we chose road an called a buddy to come pick us up.

So my 9ish-10 month old blueticks need to be broke from deer. Whats the best way to do it and how? Fast.

[Shotgun wg]

We're they bayed or just milling. Don't many deer bay up.

[Irondog87]

If in fact it was a deer. Some old timers told me that they wood take a pretty fresh deer hide or just an older one and put doe pee on it, then put that dog in a 55 gallon barrel with the hide and pretty much scare it out of the dog. Put the top on the barrel get a big stick and roll the barrel around all over their yard hitting the barrel real hard with the stick and telling them to "get out of it". They said it always worked haha. Of course I they had shock collars they might have used them instead lol.

[Bowtech99]

I beleive they were just millin around tryin to get back on track. Dont beleive they were bayed.

I'm going back today to try and find some tracks to verify what they was running. I've got know. Whatever it was it ran a pretty straight line, never cutback or circled. After church im gonna hike back thru to a firebreak they ran down an check it out.

Question on shock collars, how far do most range out? If they are running a deer and i get within 500yds of them can i burn em up?

[Shotgun wg]

Pretty good range not sure exactly how far but be sure they are trashing before u light them up

[hillbilly]

A good shocking collar will get that far easy. If they kept breaking on you it wasn't a deer. They could have been treeing a bobcat they will jump tree when they hear you or see a light coming.

[firemedic]

A good shocking collar will get that far easy. If they kept breaking on you it wasn't a deer. They could have been treeing a bobcat they will jump tree when they hear you or see a light coming.

I agree,....if it was a deer they would have been out of hearing in a heartbeat. Shock collar is the best thing for trashing but you better be for dang sure they're on trash before you use it.....I mean as in 'seeing' them running a deer.....not just thinking they are.

[Reuben]

A good shocking collar will get that far easy. If they kept breaking on you it wasn't a deer. They could have been treeing a bobcat they will jump tree when they hear you or see a light coming.

I agree,....if it was a deer they would have been out of hearing in a heartbeat. Shock collar is the best thing for trashing but you better be for dang sure they're on trash before you use it.....I mean as in 'seeing' them running a deer.....not just thinking they are.

x2...same thing with hollering at the dogs to get out when you are not for sure what they are baying/running...

[T-Bob Parker]

If you can get you a good quality bullwhip, it will cost a bit, but it's cheaper than a shock collar, and use it around the house when you need to tell pups to hush or stop getting into something... You don't need to get them with it either, just crack it and say leave it or no or whatever you like. They will instinctively not like the sound and the look of the whip. Once they know what it is, it's highly effective for calling them off trash.

The sounds carries extremely well in the woods and as an added bonus, when they hear a gunshot they'll (hopefully) quit what they're doing and Hual tail back to you.

Don't need to whip them with it or it will be counterproductive. They'll quit, but then you'll chase them forever.

[Cajun]

A tritronics shock system is by far the easiest & most humane way to break a dog off of trash. The old headem off at the pass & whip them when you catch them for the most part is useless & will make your dogs shy around you. If your dogs are already running hogs & baying them then go out at night & find some deer to put your dogs on. Let them get a little ways from you before you start shocking them.
  I even run my old dogs with tritronics. Every one of my dogs if it is out in no mans land & I beep them, they will come find me. I love that beeper combined with the shock system.
  Same thing with dillars or coons except I will put them in a cage & let the dogs go on it. When they are baying, I shock them. I will get my grandson to pull the cage past them & if they show any interest I will shock them. It does not take to long & say a day after you have shocked them, you might let them bay a hog in a pen to let them know they are doing things right & praise them up good.
  Hate to say this but Plotts are pretty hard headed compared to some of the curs I used to have & it just takes more to break them, then a cur dog.
  Good luck

[Reuben]

cajun...I agree with you...call the dog out and then beat it and the dog will shy away...the biggest message the dog will get is that he gets beat when called...

I don't break for dillos or coons...but I do for deer and I do it at home with a cattle prod or a training collar...I use deer scent on a white paper towel tacked on to a deer mount...works great...I make sure the dog is down wind so he can get a good whiff of the deer scent...and I make sure the pup is baying hogs before I break them off of any game including cows...I want them to know it is ok to bay the right game...breaking them off of cats, deer, dillos, etc...etc...before letting them bay hogs might give them the wrong message, like all game is bad...we just have to be smart about all we do with dogs...

if and when we use a training collar in the woods the pup must know it is ok to hunt the woods before any shocking takes place or the pup might get the wrong message like, "when I step in the woods I get a severe pain in the neck," so the pup quits going into the woods...

Proper dog handling plays a big part in making a dog...

[T-Bob Parker]

Hog dogs get hurt. Plain and simple. Dogs routinely have hogs cut the piss outa them, beat them up against trees, cut them gut them and generally be unpleasant with them and yet they still go hunt hogs. If all the pain that comes with being a hog dog doesn't break them from running hogs, how is a shock collar gonna break break them from running deer?

Of course they can work, but the key in my opinion is for the dog to know for certain it was you who hurt them and it was becuase they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing.

I'm not saying don't use the collar, I'm saying also make sure they know that you know what they were doing AND you were displeased with them for doing it.

[Reuben]

Hog dogs get hurt. Plain and simple. Dogs routinely have hogs cut the piss outa them, beat them up against trees, cut them gut them and generally be unpleasant with them and yet they still go hunt hogs. If all the pain that comes with being a hog dog doesn't break them from running hogs, how is a shock collar gonna break break them from running deer?

Of course they can work, but the key in my opinion is for the dog to know for certain it was you who hurt them and it was becuase they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing.

I'm not saying don't use the collar, I'm saying also make sure they know that you know what they were doing AND you were displeased with them for doing it.

for years I saw it your way...but over the years I have changed quite a bit... I didn't make myself clear...I am talking about breaking pups...it is very important we don't make the big mistakes early on because it will be a setback...but what I write are my opinions so I see it as right but there are quite a few more ways to skin a cat...

I like the path of least resistence and nipping the problem in the bud...just like training a dog to not be afraid of gunfire...it is harder to break a grown slightly shy cur dog to not be afraid of it than to start shooting a few blanks around 5 week old pups at feeding time...and then doing it at the right moment is important as well... 3 or 4 excercises is all they will need but blanks are cheap...and then shooting a big boar over them at ten months won't be a big deal...

[T-Bob Parker]

Hog dogs get hurt. Plain and simple. Dogs routinely have hogs cut the piss outa them, beat them up against trees, cut them gut them and generally be unpleasant with them and yet they still go hunt hogs. If all the pain that comes with being a hog dog doesn't break them from running hogs, how is a shock collar gonna break break them from running deer?

Of course they can work, but the key in my opinion is for the dog to know for certain it was you who hurt them and it was becuase they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing.

I'm not saying don't use the collar, I'm saying also make sure they know that you know what they were doing AND you were displeased with them for doing it.

for years I saw it your way...but over the years I have changed quite a bit... I didn't make myself clear...I am talking about breaking pups...it is very important we don't make the big mistakes early on because it will be a setback...but what I write are my opinions so I see it as right but there are quite a few more ways to skin a cat...

I like the path of least resistence and nipping the problem in the bud...just like training a dog to not be afraid of gunfire...it is harder to break a grown slightly shy cur dog to not be afraid of it than to start shooting a few blanks around 5 week old pups at feeding time...and then doing it at the right moment is important as well... 3 or 4 excercises is all they will need but blanks are cheap...and then shooting a big boar over them at ten months won't be a big deal...

No no no, I see what you were getting at and I agree that your strategy works! The resin I agree is that YOU are getting the cloth, putting the scent on it, showing it to the pup and so on and so forth, YOU  are the key factor. The pups wether we know it or not look to us as leader and teacher, if they know you have made it clear that YOU don't like something they should be less likely to do it, or easier to correct when they do.

What I don't believe works is for the dog not to realize what the shock collar is, and not know deer are bad and then when they see one, and give chase they're having a blast and suddenly they feel a jolt, well it's the same thing as a hog cutting them, some will quit BECUASE of the pain but what they remember is the excitement of the chase and it repeats.

Now, If they KNOW deer are off limits and they chase then they get the sting, they're more apt to remember that it's you who has somehow reached out and touched and told them no. I hate to see people zap a dog from 300-500 yards out knowing that dog don't have a clue that it's the master getting onto them.

[Reuben]

I agree about the dogs must know who their master is and who they must obey...that is one of the main things the dogs need to know...I try to make them learn that it is the behavior I do not like and not them...I correct without showing or giving off anger and I allow them to circle back to me and I offer my hand for them to lick their forgiveness...but first they lick their nose when they surrender...I then just keep on doing what I was doing...most of the time a word is all they need...but one thing I never do is give a command that I don't have the control to follow through with...I make sure I can reach out and touch them...I just want to make sure they don't learn that my word can be overridden in certain situations... 

[Bowtech99]

What i've got from this....

1.Invest in a Shocking System
2.Kill a deer, let the dog see what it is, Tell them NO sternly, and shock them when they respond to dead deer.
3.Drag deer thru woods, Walk dog past it, if dog responds apply electricity, knowing deer is wrong.
4.Repeat step 3 until they dont want it anymore.
5.When i beleive they are trashed on a deer in the woods, verify it by tracks in road or visual, apply electricity.

Correct me if im wrong.

Around here deer is the only thing im worried about them trashing on, I called farmer and asked for permission to go on adjacent property to check the tracks, and the only permission I have is to catch the dogs, not rambling thru the woods. So out of respect I'm not going and I'll not know what they were running. I do know one thing, I will only hunt feilds with RCD's. My hounds want to run, and want to let the hogs know where they at. I need silent RCD's that will take a hot track.

[firemedic]

I'm gonna have to disagree with Tbob this time. I don't want my dogs to think I had anything whatsoever to do with them feeling pain when running trash....I want them to think it was Devine Intervention if you want to call I that! In my opinion,.....the ideal thing would be to shock the dog the instant that the thought to pursue this 'trash' came into the dog's mind.....even before it took one step toward the trash. Then it would surmise that this trash is bad for me to run, so I'm going to leave it alone.

We can't keep our dogs from smelling all this trash that roams the woods,.....what I want is for my dogs to not want to pursue/catch any of these critters. I agree 100% that the dog/pup needs to be familiar with hogs and be baying or running them well before we try to break if off of any kind of trash.

I haven't whipped a dog in many years, no need to now.....Tri-tronics took care of that for me. I will scold them at times if need be, but that is always enough. Far better to use too little 'shock' than too much. You can always add more, but you can never take back too much.

If you can see some deer in a pasture or run across the road in front of you.....you have a super opportunity to educate your dogs,.....get 'em out and turn the ones with shock collars onto the track.....if they start to follow it.....buzz 'em.....if they don't put 'em back in the box and count your blessings. Good luck.

[Bowtech99]

We can't keep our dogs from smelling all this trash that roams the woods,.....what I want is for my dogs to not want to pursue/catch any of these critters. I agree 100% that the dog/pup needs to be familiar with hogs and be baying or running them well before we try to break if off of any kind of trash.

Far better to use too little 'shock' than too much. You can always add more, but you can never take back too much.

If you can see some deer in a pasture or run across the road in front of you.....you have a super opportunity to educate your dogs,.....get 'em out and turn the ones with shock collars onto the track.....if they start to follow it.....buzz 'em.....if they don't put 'em back in the box and count your blessings. Good luck.

I'm gonna give that a shot. I got a big club and usually can catch a deer cross pretty easy, thanks

[firemedic]

It's a good way to be sure about what you're turning them on,....if you do catch a deer crossing the road,....just take quick look and check for tracks to make sure there's not been a hog cross there before the deer. Good luck bud.

[Shotgun wg]

I have known folks that use this method also. Most say it works real good.