Breeding for Results...

[chainrated]

   So what does this tell you well it tells you that that Ole regular bro are sister that are showing some inbred defects is the one that is packing the concentrated gene pool of all the dogs in the liter .  Now what does that tell you well it tells you that this Ole reg bro are sisters is just liable to be the ones that can throw that concentrated gene pool to make those super stars that is family is known for.

 It takes a lot of breeding and a lot of studying of breeding to even realize this !

And that my friends will put you years ahead of the game if you want to breed a "family" of dogs that will stand on their own for many years. If it was as easy as just breeding "best to best" everybody would have a yard full of the best. I sure do wish it was that simple...

[parker]

its a very simple extremely complicated process .... dogs have  mulitple off spring and have the ability for one female to breed multiple males and the only relation of the offspring is the mother  unless more than one is born of the same male ..... same as throw backs in a gene pool ...  gotta weed it out to gain the consistantcy  you want ... takes more time and money than most will spend ... also you can breed in or out unwanted traits within the same line of dogs  if there is an extensive family of them ...   like i said  its  real simple but extremely complicated ...

[Reuben]

its a very simple extremely complicated process .... dogs have  mulitple off spring and have the ability for one female to breed multiple males and the only relation of the offspring is the mother  unless more than one is born of the same male ..... same as throw backs in a gene pool ...  gotta weed it out to gain the consistantcy  you want ... takes more time and money than most will spend ... also you can breed in or out unwanted traits within the same line of dogs  if there is an extensive family of them ...   like i said  its  real simple but extremely complicated ...

x2...simple yet complicated...

[bigthickethogdogs]

   So what does this tell you well it tells you that that Ole regular bro are sister that are showing some inbred defects is the one that is packing the concentrated gene pool of all the dogs in the liter .  Now what does that tell you well it tells you that this Ole reg bro are sisters is just liable to be the ones that can throw that concentrated gene pool to make those super stars that is family is known for.


I have a ? on what would you breed this old regular bro r sister to, would you breed them to a good out cross, would you breed them back in to the family just not to close

[TexasHogDogs]

You can either go with a straight hard good outcross are you could take him are her back to a dog that was like 1/2 your family blood and 1/2 hard outcross.  If you have already done a outcross with your family that has worked great then take that old reg bro are sister to one of those dogs  that way you got the cross in there that has already proven to work and you still got your family blood in there also that can connect back to your ole reg bro are sister,    if not then straight to a hard out cross of really good dogs then go back to the family if it turns out.

[TexasHogDogs]

Since your dog is a reg old joe out of the liter if he is heavy heavy line are inbred what that is telling you is your dog is as tight as he needs to go much more it will go stale and is begging for a outcross to refresh his family blood so that it can work .

If your old reg joe dog is not heavy heavy family bred and is made up of a bunch of different lines of dogs then it is just a shot in the dark because you don't know which direction to go are were his good came from are were his bad come from.  This is the advantages of family line bred dogs you eliminate it down to just one two are three different lines so you can work with it and over time tell which line is giving you what and which line is not.  This is why it is such a shot in the dark with best to best sometimes when breeding best to best it is just the roll of the dice ,  it either works are it don't and if it does work you don't know why till you start a family on the cross you just made .

[Peachcreek]

Gee

[johnf]

just getting rolling on my line.realizing im gonna need a notebook to keep up with it.started with two good dogs 'Butter' bmc to plott 'Raider'.then bred a dog outa them 'ZhuZhu' to a good urelated bmc 'Bill'.those pups made dogs like i wanted 'Brenda'.next i bred same bitch 'ZhuZhu' back to her cousin 'Woodrow'.outa aunt on mother side and same male as last breeding.cousin was also bmc.these pups are doin almost identical as Brenda did as a pup.then im gona take Brenda back to her uncle ZhuZhu's brother Preacher. excelent dog.both origial dogs raider and butter are no longer with us.i would go back zhu to preacher but there was some mouth.tolerable but im afraid of the multiplication factor.thats why last two breedings were to dead silent dogs.i can tolerate some. a long road ahead hope in goes in the right direction.

[Rocking Y]

I have never tried line breeding dogs but I raise some good bred registered horses and some of those happen to be line bred way down. I have a male and female cur dogs that are both hard working hog catching machines and they have the same father but different mothers. Would anyone recommend I cross them?   

[Reuben]

I have never tried line breeding dogs but I raise some good bred registered horses and some of those happen to be line bred way down. I have a male and female cur dogs that are both hard working hog catching machines and they have the same father but different mothers. Would anyone recommend I cross them?   

if they hunt right and act right...I say yes...and make sure to keep the very best of the pups for future breeding's...

[TShelly]

I have never tried line breeding dogs but I raise some good bred registered horses and some of those happen to be line bred way down. I have a male and female cur dogs that are both hard working hog catching machines and they have the same father but different mothers. Would anyone recommend I cross them?   

I would! I have a half bro- half sister cross that's 6 month olds. 3 out of the 5 show sure enough being really good in a few years with the other 2 not far behind. I've made a little tighter cross on the same gyp due in a month. Extremely excited to see what this next litter looks like

[Rocking Y]

Thanks Reuben and TShelly. I will keep this in mind next time I'm getting ready to breed a gyp to a male dog

[TexasHogDogs]

I have never tried line breeding dogs but I raise some good bred registered horses and some of those happen to be line bred way down. I have a male and female cur dogs that are both hard working hog catching machines and they have the same father but different mothers. Would anyone recommend I cross them?   

Half bro x Half sister is one of the best breedings that can be done in my opinion.   
Why because they either have the same sire are dam and what that does is gives you 50% if one of those is your main type of blood.  Then there is a 1/4 on the top side that gives you a out and there is a 1/4 on the bottom side that gives you a out .  So you got 50% your main blood and 50% outs which this gives the blood room to breath and collect some Hybird Vigor.

The thing I like about these breedings you can take one heavy heavy line bred dog off your breeding program were the sire and damn are kin and then take a gyp that is off that same sire but is bred to a pure out cross so she is 50% your blood and 50% out .  You breed these two together and they got the same sire plus your male dog is heavy heavy line bred off of your blood and you breed this to the gyp that is off the same sire but her bottom side is a pure out so now what the pups fall back to is 3/4 your main blood with a 1/4 pure out and are half bro x half sister. 

If you know what your blood crosses well with man the sky is the limit in half bro x half sister breedings.  Hell you can start a whole line of dogs off these kinds of breedings .
I always tell people that have these great dogs and gyps get them bred twice to good dogs and then do the half bro x half sister breeding .  Hell yeah man do it !

[parker]

i breed half brothers and sisters trying to produce something to breed back to an outstanding  male  or grandfather ..... i have always bred to produce likeness to my males not saying its the way just the way i have  done it ....  i feel  you can futher a line quicker with  males ..... also  i do it have done it probably do it again but i am not a fan of crossbreeding ...   to many things can go astray ......  its basically  a pet project when i do it .....  hybrid vigor is basically  trying to add  what the other dosen't  have much of ... where hybrid vigor  does its best is it improves mothering  the term is  real big in cattle .... my dogs don't raise pups very well unless you stay right on top of em or just get a good mother .... they  just want stay still if anything moves they gonna bark at it and they up and down with babies and smash some ....

[mike rogers]

I'd make the brother sister cross too. I did 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister cross on this litter. They both had the same mother just different dads. I got one pup that looks like nothing else in the litter. Where did she come from Good only knows, but she seems to be very smart and active on game. Even in a close line bred system you can still have a pup pop out like none of the rest.  Now my plans are to do this and keep a record of my results.

breed a full brother to sister and keep results

breed son to mother of the pups now and keep results.

2 years down the road grandson to grandmother and keep results.

2 years father to daughter and keep the results.

the reason behind it all is to find what cross produces the best cross. Some lines will do better with a father daughter cross while some will do better with a mother son cross and so on and so on... It's a lot of work and takes a lot of time, but it can pay off greatly. You got to keep all the records of the pups as you go so you can see where to cross back in or breed away from.  You can get a head start on this by buying  pups out of a proven line bred cross. Buy 2 or 3 with the same like traits that you like and start breeding from there or buy a pup from a litter and one from the previous litter. Just try to match up like traits that you like.

This is a great way to start.  You have a guys out there that have put the time in for you and it gives you a head start with building what you want. If a guy has got the jam up, hard hitting style you like and he's producing litters after litters with results then I would say go this route. It will save you a ton of time. If you don't then your gonna be like me and it's gonna take you 4 to 5 years to work out the kinks and figure your breeding out.  The only reason I'm doing it this way is because theres just not that many American Leopard Curs / hounds out there.

good luck with your breeding program.

[Cajun]

Back when I lived in Mn. & was bearhunting in wisc. I had a pretty good plott gyp. Could not really find her equal up there & did not want to breed  to a dog that was less then her. I just felt I would be going downhill. I was going to travel to Mich. to breed her to her full brother because I did not want to loose anything. Steve fielder had her full brother & a 1/2 brother to her & he talked me into breeding to the 1/2 brother. did that and the pups were outstanding. Took one of those females & bred her to her 1/2 brother still great results.
  Had a accidental breeding of full brother to full sister & the pups came out good but for some reaso n I lost the grit. These pups were all good baydogs but not catchy like the Dad & the mother. They had everything else tho.
You never know until you try.

[Reuben]

man...........there are some good posts here... I love talking about breeding and selecting better for hunting/working...my personal goal is for the experienced to post and teach the younger guys coming onto the scene on how to breed better dogs...and one can not breed better dogs if we are not sure what a good dog is for whatever sport you are after...taking it to a higher level is where it's at...not to mention less culls to deal with...  

[bigthickethogdogs]

man...........there are some good posts here... I love talking about breeding and selecting better for hunting/working...my personal goal is for the experienced to post and teach the younger guys coming onto the scene on how to breed better dogs...and one can not breed better dogs if we are not sure what a good dog is for whatever sport you are after...taking it to a higher level is where it's at...not to mention less culls to deal with... 



Yes sir this has help me out on alot of ? I had

[Rocking Y]

TexasHogDogs you really helped me out. I've been wanting to start my own line for a while now, I've been raising puppies out of our stock dogs me and my grandpa have and they have been making damn good hog dogs. I just didn't know how to start with keeping my blood and someone gave me some advice about line breeding. I just didn't know how it would work out because I've also heard that some of em come out crazy. I just need to get another female dog to cross out with

[TexasHogDogs]

Rocking Y,

If it was me and if I was wanting to do what you are wanting to do in the cross.

I would look back in my family dogs look hard and so some studying and see what cross is in those family dogs of yours .  It had to work good in the past because it is what is in your dogs now so take a good hard look .  It might just be a little cross in those family dogs of yours but find it .  Then go and try to find you a cross that matches the cross that is already in your dog.  You may find the little cross in your dogs say two three even four gens back and you might think well that will just be tighting up again but it will not work like that.

These are what are called BACK CROSSES .  You see once a big cross is made years and years ago and it worked and over the years that cross has made your dogs what they are today .  So what you are doing when you find you a cross like this now is you are bringing what is in the back of the ped and what made your dogs years ago , you are bringing it right back to the front and top and it is refreshed and it will refreshing your dogs back to what they were when the cross was first made years and years ago of course everything is a chance but this is what we done for years and years back in the bulldog game and it worked 9 times out of 10 and was great.

You see people don't understand that breeding dogs is like a big merry go round once you have the family of dogs you have and they are great dogs you do not want to change  anything unless you just have to .  In other words don't try to fix what is not broken.  When you start piddling around with things they can get out of wack real real fast and before you know it , it will be next to impossiable to fix it and tell what is what .

Just trying to help you out some here.