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Scott
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I believed that hunting traits can actually intensify when we breed for them and if we constantly select for the most hunt in every breeding within a family...same with grit...Some folks will tell you that a dog can only pass what is in them genetically and maybe that is true...but it has been said that when left to mother nature the dogs will evolve to an average, so by selecting one can manipulate mother nature and this will intensify and purify the desired traits... at one I saw a higher level of grit in some of my dogs towards the end as well as hunt until heat stroke because I bred for more hunt and more grit...not all dogs but it kept popping up and in reality these type of traits will eventually breed out because both of these traits can and will get a dog killed thus taking him or her out of the breeding program... the intensifying in hunting traits is only a theory of mine so...don't take it as fact...just something to think about...  I am of the same mind on this. If phenotype can be set by breeding pattern, so should working traits. |
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parker
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some of the studies you will see is hundrreds of years of genetic interpitations ...thats not gonna effect what we do in short term ....most people will be lucky to breed 5 generations of dogs in there lifetime ... most of us start our breeding programs years after we start hunting ...
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KevinN
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some of the studies you will see is hundrreds of years of genetic interpitations ...thats not gonna effect what we do in short term ....most people will be lucky to breed 5 generations of dogs in there lifetime ... most of us start our breeding programs years after we start hunting ...
Yessir.....where's that time machine |
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"Let's talk some philosophy"
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Reuben
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some of the studies you will see is hundrreds of years of genetic interpitations ...thats not gonna effect what we do in short term ....most people will be lucky to breed 5 generations of dogs in there lifetime ... most of us start our breeding programs years after we start hunting ...
Larry...I agree with what you are saying...we can breed 3 generations in 20 years or turn them over fast and get 7 generations...for me, my logic was to keep second and third generation males for hunting and breeding but mainly the third generation male...line breeding and inbreeding him...kept quite a few males off of him and hunted them...I felt like I could use these pups/dogs for hunting and breeding when needed...but the females I sometimes bred on the first heat if I knew they were what I was breeding for and I turned them over quickly to move ahead with the line as well as in purifying the strain...I did this project for me and it worked out great...once I felt like I was where I needed to be I slowed it way down... But here is anorher way of looking at it...the majority of the dogs I started with were purebred mt cur with one bmc at the beginning for size and quieter mouth...the mt curs were already top bred hunting dogs of many generations prior...I also had a Texas Smoke mt cur bitch that was out of Texas Smoke and out of one of his daughters...I planned that strategy because of his greatness...but those were already an established line of dogs...I just picked up and moved it further but in the direction for hog dogs and not tree dogs. In my mind there is no reason why someone needs to start with junk when they can do the homework and start with a good line of hog dogs... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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buddylee
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here is another theory that I have developed and I got this idea from a breed of dog that has long hair...I don't remember the breed other than it is a stock working dog... The standard for that particular breed calls for a certain length of hair...but over generations the hair continues to get longer...that particular statement caught my eye and I got to thinking about it and it helped me with the idea I already had...they went on to say that it was a known fact and that they bred to a shorter haired dog that didn't meet the required length of hair in their standard...but they used that type of dog to correct the longer haired problem... I believed that hunting traits can actually intensify when we breed for them and if we constantly select for the most hunt in every breeding within a family...same with grit...Some folks will tell you that a dog can only pass what is in them genetically and maybe that is true...but it has been said that when left to mother nature the dogs will evolve to an average, so by selecting one can manipulate mother nature and this will intensify and purify the desired traits... when one takes a look at field trial dogs of the past like the hounds...we see how hard and long range these dogs have gotten at one time or another...some of these dogs will kick up dust and rocks in your face when they roll out and will get deep in a hurry...when those dogs get turned loose we are hunting for dogs and we wonder if we will get them back tonight or ever...  some field trailers have taken their particular brand of dog and have taken them to a higher level of hunt and competitiveness...so much that the average hunter would stay away from those type of dogs...definitely not for the old folks... I saw a higher level of grit in some of my dogs towards the end as well as hunt until heat stroke because I bred for more hunt and more grit...not all dogs but it kept popping up and in reality these type of traits will eventually breed out because both of these traits can and will get a dog killed thus taking him or her out of the breeding program... It is amazing to me how through selection we have the dachshund to the greyhound to the great dane etc...etc... the intensifying in hunting traits is only a theory of mine so...don't take it as fact...just something to think about... [/quote I've wondered about what you said about dogs getting "better" and wondered if its possible. Game bred pits come to mind. The average dog won't fight till their death. Selective breeding over many generations produced dogs that will do just that but even in we'll bred bulldogs not every dog will fight till the end. |
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buddylee
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some of the studies you will see is hundrreds of years of genetic interpitations ...thats not gonna effect what we do in short term ....most people will be lucky to breed 5 generations of dogs in there lifetime ... most of us start our breeding programs years after we start hunting ...
One of the members on here that used to roll pits said that he'd had a puppy come out of his dogs that was colored differently than anything he's seen in his dogs. Said he traced the color back many generations in the dogs pedigree. If color can pop up like that, why not other traits ? |
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Reuben
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some of the studies you will see is hundrreds of years of genetic interpitations ...thats not gonna effect what we do in short term ....most people will be lucky to breed 5 generations of dogs in there lifetime ... most of us start our breeding programs years after we start hunting ...
One of the members on here that used to roll pits said that he'd had a puppy come out of his dogs that was colored differently than anything he's seen in his dogs. Said he traced the color back many generations in the dogs pedigree. If color can pop up like that, why not other traits ? I say 10-4 on that...had 2 chocolate pups pop up in my dogs 10-12 years apart... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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TexasHogDogs
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The puppy was traced back to the Blu Phal dogs of the late 1700's. I had put a pic of a hand painting bulldog of the late 1700's on here at one time don't know if its still on here are not .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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parker
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those pop ups i get rid of .... i keep just the brindles and tri colored brindles or black ......
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TexasHogDogs
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Your right Larry. I would have been scared to breed him aint no telling what part of the gene pool we would have ended up with had we done it . Its hard enuff like it is without throwing a monkey wrench in there .
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The older I get the less Stupidity I can stand !
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mike rogers
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But here is anorher way of looking at it...the majority of the dogs I started with were purebred mt cur with one bmc at the beginning for size and quieter mouth...the mt curs were already top bred hunting dogs of many generations prior...I also had a Texas Smoke mt cur bitch that was out of Texas Smoke and out of one of his daughters...I planned that strategy because of his greatness...but those were already an established line of dogs...I just picked up and moved it further but in the direction for hog dogs and not tree dogs. In my mind there is no reason why someone needs to start with junk when they can do the homework and start with a good line of hog dogs...
X2 Reuben
There are some really nice proven lines out there of just about every breed or cross. Starting out with above average dogs over a average dog will take you a long long ways and put you ahead of the game. not to mention by starting out with an above average dog you eliminate some of the defects and bad traits that your try'n to stay away from.
A lot a great info for guys new to breeding and for guys thats been doing it a while.
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Reuben
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always wondered this ..... if you were going to breed a pit to a bird dog for an example, and lets say the pit was the male and the bird was the female, would the pups be more like the daddy , more like the momma , half pits and half birds , or a good combo of both ?? guess what im trying to ask is , if you wanted dominate traits from one dog and just a touch of the other , does it matter whos the male and whos the female in the breeding ?? lets say i wanted a leggy dog with great nose , lots of hunt ,stamina and grit ...... should the female be the bird dog or should the female be the pit for the breeding ? or does it matter as long as you use good genetics on both sides ? thanks
I really don't know the answer to your question...but they say the sire and the dam contribute equally... here is what I have read on it and these are just theories...let's say the dam is the pit bull...the pups learn through behavior to act somewhat like the dam because they spend quite a bit of time with her as pups...this is a learned behavior... Another man wrote a story about some of his thoughts on the dam...at first I didn't believe cause it was way out there...he was saying that everything is about chemical reactions and he was talking about the pregnant dam in general...his example was that when one worries that we react differently but some generate more stomach acid than others and some quite a few will get acid indigestion and that is one example of chemical reactions...he was saying that why can not unborn pups not learn from the mamas excitement and hunting technique...he said that when the dam is running a track and smelling the coon scent and becoming excited over it that that could somehow transfer to the pups because after all they are connected to her...and when she catches and kills a coon that they can feel and react to the dams reactions/actions...so it is possible that these pups are born to hunt coon and we might think that they are natural coon dogs and some might be but others might already be preconditioned to run and catch game because the dam was hunted until she was about to give birth... after reading and thinking on it it made a lot of sense to me...I didn't really answer your question but hopefully it gives you something to think about... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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halfbreed
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well I will tell you about sire and dame in chicken talk lol if you breed a green legged rooster to a yellow leg hen . the young rooster or [ stags ] will all have yellow legs and the pullets will all be green legged . so transfered into dogs the gyp pups would have more traits from the sire and the male pups will have more of the dames genes . and I have noticed this with the breedings in dogs I have made on the yard . so yes the sire and dame play equally in the breedings . so with the bird dogs x bull dog cross in your example the male was a bird dog , so the gyp pups would be more prone to taking the bull dog side and the males more the bird dog attributes .
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hattak at ofi piso
469-658-2534
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parker
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there is what you call a dominate breeder ..... and those usually throw more likeness to themselves
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