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Author Topic: Pound dogs?  (Read 2457 times)
Scott
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« on: June 25, 2013, 03:14:03 pm »

I agree with the Mrs, I'll also say that no dog of any breed should be left unattended with a child.

Just to so in clear..I'm talking bout game bred pits we know that's different story.
I'm talking bout the average out that little johnny picks up from the pound.
Ill cull them because I'm raising hog dogs not dog fighting stock.
The majority of people hunters and non hunters have bulldogs.
I live in the city and people walk there dogs on side walk in front of my house and 6 out of 10 are bulldogs

I understand where you are coming from...I just see it a little different. I know the pound is a popular place for some to find a "bulldog" (something else I can't quite understand). I can't agree that the majority of people have bulldogs, simply because there's no way to prove that it is a fact. How do you know that 60% of those dogs walking in front of your house are bulldogs?

Mind explaining a bit about what I have hi-lighted? Some people (including myself) don't care to wait over a year to raise cd pups, I do have one now that I am raising but I normally don't raise them, I pick em up already grown for next to nothing. The CD I have been using for almost 2 years now was found wandering down the side of the road in a not so good part of town and passed along to me, she has ended up being a GREAT dog in every aspect, had I not given her the chance we would have missed out on one of the best mannered dogs we own.  I have owned more than a couple cd's I got from the pound and never had a problem with em, I guess it goes back to some people being on the other side of the pet/ hunting tool line than myself........ if I want a house dog/ pet I would buy and raise a lab puppy.

 I personally have had great luck with pound bulldogs, some dogs just need a second chance.... I can honestly say that out of all bulldogs that have come into my possession as grown dogs only 1 has not made the grade and his problem had nothing to do with fighting other dogs, he just simply didn't care to catch a hog. For what I use a cd for I don't need to go through months and months of training, I simply need to make sure that he is good around people, is going to go to the bay from 40-80yds, catch and hold the hog and only the hog and not act a fool, thats about it. You would be surprised how well some of these dogs have worked for us. At one time myself and my main hunting buddy had 2 uncut male bulldogs that would follow us on horseback and would go to a bay on command, we caught TONS of hogs with those two dogs and never had so much as 1 altercation with them and and other dogs.....care to guess where they both came from? Not trying to start an arguement at all, I would just like to know why you are against pound dogs. I know of a more than a onet pretty well known and respected hoghunter / dogman that does it the same way and have for years and years with success.

Valid question and points made. I don't have a problem with other folks hunting "pound" dogs...I just don't understand it. When you pick up a dog from the pound, what do you know about it? I suppose if you all you need is something to accomplish a task the pound may not be a bad place, but long term...what does it really do for you? If the dog is fixed I guess it'll serve it's purpose. But, if it's not and it turns out to be a good dog, would you breed it? If you do, do you know what to expect in regards to offspring?

Now here's a question for you? Do you go to the pound when your looking for a strike dog? I'll bet from reading some of your posts on here that you don't. Why not?

Now specifically with bulldogs, what I want to know is temperament, health, wind, mouth, heart, etc. Most of these you may be able to learn by giving said pound dog exposure and opportunity. However, the dog isn't just what's in front of you...it's a combination of all dogs in it's pedigree. So, how do you know what to expect from any of it's offspring?

What I'm getting at is that a dogs pedigree (not registration papers) is important to me. If that dog proves to be breedworthy, I want to know what to expect from any offspring.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 03:16:21 pm by Scott » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 03:44:20 pm »

I agree with the Mrs, I'll also say that no dog of any breed should be left unattended with a child.

Just to so in clear..I'm talking bout game bred pits we know that's different story.
I'm talking bout the average out that little johnny picks up from the pound.
Ill cull them because I'm raising hog dogs not dog fighting stock.
The majority of people hunters and non hunters have bulldogs.
I live in the city and people walk there dogs on side walk in front of my house and 6 out of 10 are bulldogs

I understand where you are coming from...I just see it a little different. I know the pound is a popular place for some to find a "bulldog" (something else I can't quite understand). I can't agree that the majority of people have bulldogs, simply because there's no way to prove that it is a fact. How do you know that 60% of those dogs walking in front of your house are bulldogs?

Mind explaining a bit about what I have hi-lighted? Some people (including myself) don't care to wait over a year to raise cd pups, I do have one now that I am raising but I normally don't raise them, I pick em up already grown for next to nothing. The CD I have been using for almost 2 years now was found wandering down the side of the road in a not so good part of town and passed along to me, she has ended up being a GREAT dog in every aspect, had I not given her the chance we would have missed out on one of the best mannered dogs we own.  I have owned more than a couple cd's I got from the pound and never had a problem with em, I guess it goes back to some people being on the other side of the pet/ hunting tool line than myself........ if I want a house dog/ pet I would buy and raise a lab puppy.

 I personally have had great luck with pound bulldogs, some dogs just need a second chance.... I can honestly say that out of all bulldogs that have come into my possession as grown dogs only 1 has not made the grade and his problem had nothing to do with fighting other dogs, he just simply didn't care to catch a hog. For what I use a cd for I don't need to go through months and months of training, I simply need to make sure that he is good around people, is going to go to the bay from 40-80yds, catch and hold the hog and only the hog and not act a fool, thats about it. You would be surprised how well some of these dogs have worked for us. At one time myself and my main hunting buddy had 2 uncut male bulldogs that would follow us on horseback and would go to a bay on command, we caught TONS of hogs with those two dogs and never had so much as 1 altercation with them and and other dogs.....care to guess where they both came from? Not trying to start an arguement at all, I would just like to know why you are against pound dogs. I know of a more than a onet pretty well known and respected hoghunter / dogman that does it the same way and have for years and years with success.

Instead of going back and forth looking at the questions you have asked I am gonna try and answer them all in red directly after the question.....hope it doesn't get to screwed up!

Valid question and points made. I don't have a problem with other folks hunting "pound" dogs...I just don't understand it. When you pick up a dog from the pound, what do you know about it?Not a thing except that its a grown dog without an owner and it seems to have a decent demeanor I suppose if you all you need is something to accomplish a task the pound may not be a bad place, but long term...what does it really do for you? Hopefully it catches me hogs  GrinIf the dog is fixed I guess it'll serve it's purpose. But, if it's not and it turns out to be a good dog, would you breed it?nope, sure wouldn't, there's way to many bulldogs in this world that I believe will do me a good job.....no need in hasslin with a buncha pups If you do, do you know what to expect in regards to offspring?see previous answer

Now here's a question for you? Do you go to the pound when your looking for a strike dog?nope, I get em from close friends and or breed them myself I'll bet from reading some of your posts on here that you don't. Why not? in my opinion the percentage regarding bulldogs that will make catch dogs compared to any other dogs making solid strike dogs is VASTLY different, most bulldogs will catch......cant say the same for all other dogs finding hogs.....bulldogs as a breed were originally bred to catch and take down unruly livestock.....weiner dogs same as beagles were never bred to hunt hogs at any point in time

Now specifically with bulldogs, what I want to know is temperament, health, wind, mouth, heart, etc. Most of these you may be able to learn by giving said pound dog exposure and opportunity. However, the dog isn't just what's in front of you...it's a combination of all dogs in it's pedigree. So, how do you know what to expect from any of it's offspring? as said above, I don't breed em, I make a couple phone calls or I go back to the bulldog gettin place and grab another if and when I need one

What I'm getting at is that a dogs pedigree (not registration papers) is important to me. If that dog proves to be breedworthy, I want to know what to expect from any offspring. I completely understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, I tried to produce a litter of bulldog pups once, ever and it didn't take and honestly I wasn't heartbroken, I have access to PLENTY of bulldogs if/when needed.... I find it EXTREMELY harder to find or produce and reproduce top notch bay/strike dogs than to find suitable catch dogs.......I don't have my bulldogs as novelty items or to show off, they don't ride around with me or go to the beach or out in public with me, they stay at my house penned up until it is time for them to earn their keep then they go back to their respective spot in the yard until next time...now im not saying in any way shape or form that I dont mess with them or play with them but I don't need or expect NEAR as much out of them as I do my bay/strike dogs, my bulldogs need to do 3 things for me to be happy 1) shut the heck up while in the box 2) hear and go directly to the bay 3) catch the hog and don't let go.

I hope this post isn't to confusing for anyone to read lol, just thought it would be easier to answer each question in order. Like i've already said, this is my opinion and nothing more. I've been on this site for quite a while and know for a fact that theres a TON of different ways to skin a cat regarding bulldogs. This method has worked for me for over 9 years so I just keep doing it this way.....however I do have a cd puppy i'm currently raising so to say that I won't or have never done it another way would be a lie, she comes from Mbennet off of this board and so far has been quite a pleasure, im just normally not in the business or raising/ breeding bulldogs is all. Hope you understand that there is no ill intent or will meant by my post, just the way I do it!


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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 03:45:25 pm »

.......Dang lol that red is hard to read on my computer screen, didn't realize it would be like that til after I posted! sorry!
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 03:50:43 pm »

HAHA I own a bulldog to catch hogs not kill dogs...
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 03:52:24 pm »

"I wonder how many of these bulldogs that get culled aren't even the ones that start the fights?"

And to answer this. In my case, the bulldog was in a kennel, the cur was on a chain. The bulldog broke out his kennel, and went to the curs chain and killed him there... He could of left the fight, but he didn't. He finished it.
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 03:53:37 pm »

And if I wanted silent dogs I wouldn't own a hound. But I like dogs to open up, that bawlin gets my blood flowing!!!
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Scott
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 03:56:42 pm »

And if I wanted silent dogs I wouldn't own a hound. But I like dogs to open up, that bawlin gets my blood flowing!!!

And that's my point!
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2013, 04:01:12 pm »

And if I wanted silent dogs I wouldn't own a hound. But I like dogs to open up, that bawlin gets my blood flowing!!!

And that's my point!

not sure I follow..... are you implying that all bulldogs are animal aggressive?
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2013, 04:02:25 pm »

I must not understand your point. I own bulldogs to catch pigs not kill dogs, so if they kill dogs I get rid of them till I get one that won't do that. Like if I just really wanted a silent hound I would find one that is not open (because not all open on trail, just like not all pits/bulldogs kill other dogs), I would go through open dogs till I got a silent one....
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 04:03:28 pm »

And if I wanted silent dogs I wouldn't own a hound. But I like dogs to open up, that bawlin gets my blood flowing!!!

And that's my point!

not sure I follow..... are you implying that all bulldogs are animal aggressive?

Glad I am not the only one thinking that... I do not understand that at all!?!?!?!
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Scott
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2013, 04:04:45 pm »

Justin, that's why I said for me...I don't understand it. My requirements are a little different because I look at strike dogs and bulldogs the same when it comes to performance and breeding. So, my list is a little longer than your 3.

I'm not saying my way is the right way/only way....just it's my way that works for me.

And if I wanted silent dogs I wouldn't own a hound. But I like dogs to open up, that bawlin gets my blood flowing!!!

And that's my point!

not sure I follow..... are you implying that all bulldogs are animal aggressive?

Yes, all bulldogs are animal aggressive...each will have varying levels...but even when you think it's not (animal aggressive)...it is. A couple of hundred years of selective breeding is difficult to get away from.
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2013, 04:10:27 pm »

Ok, here's the deal as simple as I can put it

Would you cull a hound for being open on track when they have been bred to be open since man started selectively breeding them to hunt? If your answer is yes...why would you cull a dog for doing what it's been bred to do? Wouldn't it make more sense to choose a breed that is not open on track, instead of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole?

Bulldogs were selectively bred for a couple of hundred years for animal combat...why would you be surprised when it comes out? If animal aggression is a no-no for you...why wouldn't you find a breed where it hasn't been ingrained in their dna?
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2013, 04:16:12 pm »

Well animal aggression I can handle... Killing dogs is what I cannot. And again if I wanted silent hounds then yes I would cull open mouth dogs and only keep silent ones... Just like I will cull a bulldog that will kill another dog and keep one that won't....

This conversation is going in circles and not getting anywhere... You obviously think that if a bulldog kills another dog that is ok since it has been "bred" for it and it is in their DNA. I think that is ridiculous since there is plenty of bulldogs that are out there that have not killed any other dogs. It may be because they were better restrained or the owner never had any issues. Some of us are not so lucky and SH*& happens. We can have our own opinions. 
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2013, 04:17:08 pm »

The way I look at it is this. If a dog, whether from the pound, off the streets, or a reputable breeder, does the job its expected to do and does it well, then I will keep it and use it. Even if I decide not to ever breed it because I know nothing of its background, I can always use a good dog.

 We have never gone to the pound to get a dog but two of our best catch dogs ever were dogs that were dumped out near our house. Caught hundreds of hogs with them . One even became a house dog. The first one, Ammo, died from a heat stroke and the other one, Voodoo, died when he broke his clip and jumped out of the back of the truck in between the truck and trailer.  I still miss both of those dogs. Neither were dog or human agressive.

But everyone has different ways of doing things for different reasons. This is just my thought on the subject.
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2013, 04:19:27 pm »

Justin, that's why I said for me...I don't understand it. My requirements are a little different because I look at strike dogs and bulldogs the same when it comes to performance and breeding. So, my list is a little longer than your 3.

I'm not saying my way is the right way/only way....just it's my way that works for me.

And if I wanted silent dogs I wouldn't own a hound. But I like dogs to open up, that bawlin gets my blood flowing!!!

And that's my point!

not sure I follow..... are you implying that all bulldogs are animal aggressive?

Yes, all bulldogs are animal aggressive...each will have varying levels...but even when you think it's not (animal aggressive)...it is. A couple of hundred years of selective breeding is difficult to get away from.

I gotcha man, different strokes is all  Wink
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2013, 04:22:01 pm »

The way I look at it is this. If a dog, whether from the pound, off the streets, or a reputable breeder, does the job its expected to do and does it well, then I will keep it and use it. Even if I decide not to ever breed it because I know nothing of its background, I can always use a good dog.

Bingo!

 We have never gone to the pound to get a dog but two of our best catch dogs ever were dogs that were dumped out near our house. Caught hundreds of hogs with them . One even became a house dog. The first one, Ammo, died from a heat stroke and the other one, Voodoo, died when he broke his clip and jumped out of the back of the truck in between the truck and trailer.  I still miss both of those dogs. Neither were dog or human agressive.

But everyone has different ways of doing things for different reasons. This is just my thought on the subject.
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Scott
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2013, 04:23:37 pm »

Well animal aggression I can handle... Killing dogs is what I cannot. And again if I wanted silent hounds then yes I would cull open mouth dogs and only keep silent ones... Just like I will cull a bulldog that will kill another dog and keep one that won't....

This conversation is going in circles and not getting anywhere... You obviously think that if a bulldog kills another dog that is ok since it has been "bred" for it and it is in their DNA. I think that is ridiculous since there is plenty of bulldogs that are out there that have not killed any other dogs. It may be because they were better restrained or the owner never had any issues. Some of us are not so lucky and SH*& happens. We can have our own opinions. 

You are correct in that we can have our own opinions. And, those opinions are right for each of us....

If my dogs (of any breed) are put in a position to fight...it's my fault. If during that fight, one ends up dead...it's my fault.

I'm just not big on trying to put a square peg in a round hole...
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2013, 04:31:41 pm »

Well animal aggression I can handle... Killing dogs is what I cannot. And again if I wanted silent hounds then yes I would cull open mouth dogs and only keep silent ones... Just like I will cull a bulldog that will kill another dog and keep one that won't....

This conversation is going in circles and not getting anywhere... You obviously think that if a bulldog kills another dog that is ok since it has been "bred" for it and it is in their DNA. I think that is ridiculous since there is plenty of bulldogs that are out there that have not killed any other dogs. It may be because they were better restrained or the owner never had any issues. Some of us are not so lucky and SH*& happens. We can have our own opinions. 

You are correct in that we can have our own opinions. And, those opinions are right for each of us....

If my dogs (of any breed) are put in a position to fight...it's my fault. If during that fight, one ends up dead...it's my fault.

I'm just not big on trying to put a square peg in a round hole...

but if you find a big enough hammer you can make it fit lol..





...just screwin with ya!  Grin
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2013, 04:40:34 pm »

yep, I've seen the outcome of that a few times myself...

That's why it no longer interests me to try and accomplish that task Wink
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2013, 04:43:49 pm »

Well animal aggression I can handle... Killing dogs is what I cannot. And again if I wanted silent hounds then yes I would cull open mouth dogs and only keep silent ones... Just like I will cull a bulldog that will kill another dog and keep one that won't....

This conversation is going in circles and not getting anywhere... You obviously think that if a bulldog kills another dog that is ok since it has been "bred" for it and it is in their DNA. I think that is ridiculous since there is plenty of bulldogs that are out there that have not killed any other dogs. It may be because they were better restrained or the owner never had any issues. Some of us are not so lucky and SH*& happens. We can have our own opinions. 

I don't think he was saying "it's okay" if a bulldog kills another dog. I think the point both he and I have been trying to make is that people insist on using bulldogs as catch dogs, but if something happens not at the fault of the dog, like a yard accident, it's 'the bulldog's fault'. Point being made here is that Anyone who CHOOSES to own a bulldog type dog, should be aware, and accept the FACT that yes, due to eugenics, they can and LIKELY will be animal aggressive. It is a RISK that people take when owning one. I am not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't own, nor that you very well may own/or have owned a bulldog for however many years that never had an issue with another dog, etc. My point is, be aware, that no matter how good a handle you have on said dog, there is always the CHANCE that he may exhibit dog aggression at some point, and people really need to be extra responsible when containing a bulldog. Yes, I am also aware yard accidents happen. But guess what? If one of my bulldogs were to bust off his chain somehow someway.....is that HIS fault? Ultimately, that'd be MY fault, because that would mean that I hadn't checked his hardware lately to ensure nothing needed replacing, etc. So if this bulldog that broke off his chain goes and gets into it with another dog on the yard, am I going to run and grab my shotgun and go put a bullet in his head? No. I do acknowledge that folks keep them for the purpose of CD's, which they are very good at, and that's fantastic. But my point is, is that I have been seeing a lot of unfortunate events happening where someones bulldog has put a hurtin on someone's other dog, usually due to inadequate confinement. My opinionated posts are to offer insight, and maybe some helpful knowledge to others who may not understand certain aspects of how high caliber a bulldog can be. Knowledge is power after all. Now let me also add, I'm NOT passing judgement on ANYone who has had a bulldog involved yard accident. I am simply trying to share helpful insight on how it can be prevented in the future from happening/happening again.

And yes, these dogs are NOT for everyone. I'll say it a million times over. Goes for any hard headed strong willed breed, aside from bulldogs even. Stubborn, determined hard headed breeds require very firm handlers willing to go the extra mile if you will to ensure they stay out of trouble.
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