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matt_aggie04
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« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2009, 10:29:09 am » |
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If you read throught this link there are some key points about how hogs need to be hunted from various angles and that hunting with dogs is a very effective way to do that. Also mentions that hog depredation on young trees can be very detramental in a forrested area.... http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ws/ca/prevention_and_control_factsheets/wildlife_damage_and_control_handbook_wild_pig.pdf |
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"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session" - Mark Twain (1866)
"I hate rude behavior in a man, I won't tolerate it"~Woodrow F. Call
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."~Thomas Jefferson
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TX HOG
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« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2009, 10:29:24 am » |
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about $2 a month to support hog hunting and other dogs sports. plus they put a price on the persons head that steals a dog. if you are a TDHA member put it as your signature or under your board name so the non members feel left out  |
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Dexter
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« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2009, 10:35:29 am » |
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<
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< T.D.H.A........... A PROUD MEMBER
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Silverton Boar Dogs
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« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2009, 10:57:12 am » |
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Matt, yes this has to do with the effects on the deer population and complaints from deer hunters......I realise and brought up the point that the season in the Sam was in the spring and that would not change anything in the fall.
He was very interested to see any studies I could come up with relating to dog hunting and efects on deer.
This seems to be coming from the state and federal biologists that work down there.
My contact is in the loop and I think we may be able to make some head way through him, he is one of the three or more that made the decision.
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slimpickins
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« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2009, 11:00:34 am » |
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Paul, sounds like you found a good contact, although this will doubtly affect me personally, this is just another fine example of what TDHA is doing for our sport.
Join up, pay the $25, and lets all unite as one voice that will be heard.
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Pro-Staff @ Wild Boar USA www.wildboarusa.com"Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading!" unknown Bacon is a vegetable! |
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Circle C
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« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2009, 11:15:54 am » |
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Slim,
This is the place we had the big spring hunt the last two years. You've got the tshirt...
The thing that concerns me the most about this situation, is that it looks like the beginning of the end. All it takes is a little momentum in the wrong direction, and we're going to be in the same boat as the deer doggers. Paul/TDHA, thanks again for taking the lead on this effort.
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Never get too busy making a living that you forget to make a life.
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slimpickins
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« Reply #46 on: August 21, 2009, 11:24:04 am » |
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Oh snap......well though I didn't make the hunt last year, I had hoped to be at the next one. The thing that concerns me the most about this situation, is that it looks like the beginning of the end. I fully agree, and that is why everyone needs to join, pay the dues, and pay attention to what TDHA is doing to help each one of us. Each time something like this happens, it's another "straw on the camels back" and it looks like he might be getting a pretty good load of straw. |
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Pro-Staff @ Wild Boar USA www.wildboarusa.com"Peace is that brief, glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading!" unknown Bacon is a vegetable! |
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Eric
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« Reply #47 on: August 21, 2009, 11:24:50 am » |
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The thing that concerns me the most about this situation, is that it looks like the beginning of the end. All it takes is a little momentum in the wrong direction, and we're going to be in the same boat as the deer doggers.
Exactly, the next group of anti-doggers will be using this to support their agenda, and it just snowballs from there. Precedents carry alot of weight. |
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Silverton Boar Dogs
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« Reply #48 on: August 21, 2009, 12:08:28 pm » |
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FYI, White Oak Creek WMA, will remain open to dog hunters and they want it to stay that way.
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BobbyB
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« Reply #49 on: August 21, 2009, 01:05:55 pm » |
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I just went to the TP&W office in San Antonio an got my permit and book. I havent had a chance to completely go thru it. IS the Sam Houston Nat'l Forest the only one affected?
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" If you can't have no fun, ain't no use agoin' ! " - old man in a Sweetwater, TX cafe
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matt_aggie04
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« Reply #50 on: August 21, 2009, 01:49:48 pm » |
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Bobby to my knowledge there are only two public areas in east Texas that allow hunting with dogs and that was the Sam Houston National Forrest and White Oak Creek WMA which is located in NE Texas.
Matt
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"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session" - Mark Twain (1866)
"I hate rude behavior in a man, I won't tolerate it"~Woodrow F. Call
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."~Thomas Jefferson
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Silverton Boar Dogs
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« Reply #51 on: August 21, 2009, 02:16:05 pm » |
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Those were the only two in Texas where you could run dogs, non of the WMA out here in West Texas will let you run dogs.
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Monteria
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« Reply #52 on: August 21, 2009, 02:27:27 pm » |
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Guys, and Lady... I just got internet back (I live in the boonies and satellite sucks), But officer Scott of the USFS called me back today. He and I had a pretty revealing conversation. The issue at hand has NOTHING to do with any perceived effect on deer populations. It had everything to do with us being our own worst enemy!  The two month long season was opened 10 years ago, planned as 10 year study of dog hunters and their effect as a depredation control method. In that time, the USFS and SHNF LEOs have found that the resource was under utilized, that dog hunters did not beneficially impact the hog numbers, that the majority of caught hogs were either transported live to destinations other than terminal facility or released for another day, and that we as dog hunters were not proactive enough to report utilization and harvest information via the APH harvest questionnaire which all APH holders are required to submit annually. With consideration of the following and public outcry, a LARGE community of archers and rifle hunters who have committed to utilize the resource year round, the powers that be chose to increase hunter opportunity with a group more inclined to provide depredation relief and unable to release their prey. I did point out that there is no written regulation (prior to this years sunset revisions) requiring hogs caught at the Sam be killed. I also suggested that revision of written regulation would be much more effective in helping them achieve their goals than limiting seasons or methods. My suggestion, as you can imagine, was to allow all legal hunting methods of non-indigenous game during any non-utilized period (any time other than deer and turkey season) while requiring hogs be killed on site, reported at a check station AND to ADVERTISE THE OPPORTUNITY to increase utilization (I only learned about the season a year and a half ago). His response in essence was........ You had your chance and you blew it! That concludes my research on the subject. Silverton, if you would like to call me for any detail that may help your effort, please feel free to do so. 512-894-0292 Steve |
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matt_aggie04
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« Reply #53 on: August 21, 2009, 02:35:05 pm » |
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That is a pofessional crock of number 2 if I have ever heard one!!!!
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"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session" - Mark Twain (1866)
"I hate rude behavior in a man, I won't tolerate it"~Woodrow F. Call
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."~Thomas Jefferson
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aladatrot
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« Reply #54 on: August 21, 2009, 02:38:53 pm » |
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Sounds a little like the sentiment of our "federal ranger visitor" at the last PWRR. He obviously had a bad taste in his mouth from dog hunters. The issue I have is that IF dog hunters didn't participate in surveys, they how could they deduce that the dog hunters didn't affect the total numbers? As well, how does the forestry service know that the hogs were transported to non terminal facilities? Sounds like someone with some preconceived notions about hog doggers to me. I may be wrong since admittedly I harbor some preconceived notions about government officials.
Cheers and thanks for digging into this.
M
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At least I'm successful at doing nothing right. I guess it could be worse.
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cantexduck
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« Reply #55 on: August 21, 2009, 02:39:30 pm » |
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WOW. Didnt see that coming.................
Made up(excuse) or not, it is a pretty strong arguement. If the hunters(dog) are saying yes WE DID take out x number of hogs lat year- They just look down and read the numbers and say NO, we only show y taken by dogs last year.
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There's a coon, nevermind, thats Buster.
"So I pawned my lacy off to my girlfriend. That should teach her to meet men off match.com"
Rich.
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Monteria
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« Reply #57 on: August 21, 2009, 02:45:57 pm » |
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Guess I left that part out, Mandy....
He said that the information was all gathered and supported by his field work as a game warden and that was all they had to go by other than a small handful of annual reports. I did specifically ask how he knew that the hogs were being transported anywhere other than terminal facility....... He said that the hunters were dumb enough to admit that they were taking the hogs home, to a pen, or intended to release them. I asked if he wrote tickets for the offenses (I wanted to know if there was any documentation) and he stated that he gave each offender the opportunity to kill the pigs instead...... I am not going to make any accusations here but I can tell you that I really wish citations were written if for no other reason than to document the incidents.
Steve
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matt_aggie04
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« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2009, 02:46:37 pm » |
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This like being part of someones science project that you didn't know you were a part and then being punished for the way you acted. There is no way in hell they have a clue what is taken out of the forrest or put in the forrest or anything involving factual numbers for that matter. It is just the crutch they are using to lean against.
If I am in the woods and I stick a hog and leave it laying there, who knows about it??? Last year we killed half a dozen and one was taken home to be butchered and no one in green clothes knew anything about it so how are they are using this information as fact?
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« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 02:49:49 pm by matt_aggie04 »
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"No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session" - Mark Twain (1866)
"I hate rude behavior in a man, I won't tolerate it"~Woodrow F. Call
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."~Thomas Jefferson
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Circle C
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« Reply #59 on: August 21, 2009, 02:53:18 pm » |
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Funny how we ran into the same federal guy two years in a row, and he never once asked how many hogs we had caught, killed, etc. First year was on the pipeline west of 45, second year was off Shell Oil Road.
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Never get too busy making a living that you forget to make a life.
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