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Reuben
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« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2014, 09:25:38 am » |
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To me a help dog is not a strike dog...he might get lucky and find one every now and then...and alone will not range far or run a hog for too long...but when this dog teams up with a good hog dog then it will go the distance...the only way I would keep this dog is if he brings something to the hunt like being a great stop dog...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2014, 09:36:45 am » |
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Oconee I know deep down inside you want to be my friend lol. My dogs are nothing fancy just bunch of misfits. I did get to breed some decent blood into my dogs thanks to a buddy. But I do take my dogs serous the main difference between us to me is you like a dog to run a hog for miles by him self I like a dog that can stop one fast as he can. This is more than likely cuz you have big land to hunt I don't so that's the style I need to be successful. Back to help dog so if me and you hunted and my dog out struk your best dog would you cull it on the spot ? If your dog out struck my best dog I would say man you got a nice dog so if that's being helleva lot more serious than me then I guess you are my friend
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Judge peel
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« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2014, 09:44:06 am » |
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Ruben I agree with that to a point I have hog dogs I ain't never under stood all these do and donts I catch hogs so it might be help strike rcd bay dog what ever they get it done lol I just like dogs and hogs
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Judge peel
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« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2014, 09:48:13 am » |
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Oconee next time your bout to cull one of them ole plotts for not making your cut I will buy em and see if will make my cut as I have been wanting a good fast gritty hound I am serous this is not a joke
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chads7376
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« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2014, 02:28:37 pm » |
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I have to somewhat agree with Reuben. I wont keep a two year old dog that won't get out and hunt and consistently find, hold its own hog. I'm not worried about stopping power because I run all loose dogs so I won't even keep a help dog for that.
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hoghunter71409
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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2014, 02:45:14 pm » |
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I believe a lot also depends on the hunter..like said before.
Do you know anybody (carpenter, electrician, plumber, ect.) that goes to work with just one tool? Each profession and in most cases sport has multiple tools. Baseball picthers have different pitches, batters different bats, and defensive players use different gloves based on thier position....
I look at my pack of dogs as different tools. Each dog has things I really like about that dog and they all do something I wish they didnt, but none are perfect. I dont call any of my dogs help dogs, but they have all been used multiple times to help another dog in the pack.
If at the end of the day, I can catch a hog or at least feel like I had a chance to catch a hog, then I am happy. If someone needs a help dog in thier pack to go home happy at the end of a hunt then so be it. If the dog is bringing a benefit to the hunt, they can eat my dog food.
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reatj81
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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2014, 04:59:18 pm » |
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I took my three dogs last week hoping for a short fast hunt. All three had a separate bay at the same time. I sure needed some help!
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oconee
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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2014, 05:56:30 pm » |
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I took my three dogs last week hoping for a short fast hunt. All three had a separate bay at the same time. I sure needed some help!
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You DAMN right!!!! Lets see a pack with a 1 good dog and 2 "help dogs" pull that off!!! All I am saying is it don't take but 1 good dog to bay a hog and I would just assume my other dogs be young dogs in training with potential to be the lead dog some day. The moment these pups show me they do not have what it takes to make lead dogs they are done!!!! I don't keep them to "help" the dog that I'm using to train them. Sounds like reatj81 has what we should all be striving for, a pack of nice dogs. |
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Reuben
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2014, 06:14:23 pm » |
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I took my three dogs last week hoping for a short fast hunt. All three had a separate bay at the same time. I sure needed some help!
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You DAMN right!!!! Lets see a pack with a 1 good dog and 2 "help dogs" pull that off!!! All I am saying is it don't take but 1 good dog to bay a hog and I would just assume my other dogs be young dogs in training with potential to be the lead dog some day. The moment these pups show me they do not have what it takes to make lead dogs they are done!!!! I don't keep them to "help" the dog that I'm using to train them. Sounds like reatj81 has what we should all be striving for, a pack of nice dogs. X2...the goal should be to take any dog out of the kennels and find and bring to bay hogs...I also agree with hoghunter71409...I know a hunter that catches lots of hogs with a mixed pack of dogs... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2014, 06:53:21 pm » |
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Reatj81 that's awesome your dogs can do that. Most can't
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reatj81
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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2014, 07:09:40 pm » |
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Thanks guys. It doesn't happen every day but it is common. Hog hunting can sure put a dog out for a couple of weeks, and I'm not going to be sidelined when this happens. I decided years ago if I feed them they have to be able to produce pork, and they have to be breed worthy. I don't keep many dogs, so if I loose one I can breed the two I have and have more, or get one of their relatives that have been placed to breed to what I already have.
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Reuben
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2014, 08:08:50 pm » |
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Thanks guys. It doesn't happen every day but it is common. Hog hunting can sure put a dog out for a couple of weeks, and I'm not going to be sidelined when this happens. I decided years ago if I feed them they have to be able to produce pork, and they have to be breed worthy. I don't keep many dogs, so if I loose one I can breed the two I have and have more, or get one of their relatives that have been placed to breed to what I already have.
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I agree...we all should be striving for producing top performing dogs that produce consistently more of the same...it is hard to achieve consistency with scatter bred dogs...it is easy enough to produce a high percentage of good dogs when one lucks into a good line of dogs and one has culled hard for a few generations with these good dogs...a good breeder can get to the point of culling good dogs that are considered to be great dogs by some...what I mean by culling meaning not good enough to stay but good for someone else...at one time I had dogs like that...but don't have that now...now I only care for decent dogs and will slowly breed towards improvement...at my age I have to put away money and not spend like when I was a young man...I'll even take a help dog that brings something to the pack...what I thought were great dogs some would say they open on track (not good)...too long range...too much bottom...but I sure like it when I turn a few dogs like this in some big woods with just a few porkers in it and these dogs more often than not bay hogs...good dogs are good dogs no matter who owns them... if more doggers took breeding seriously there would be a lot more good dogs out there...some of the best dog breeders spend weeks and/or months trying to decide which dogs to breed in there back yard/kennels...one can settle for ok or not be satisfied until they have made the best possible decision for making the right breeding...that is the first half of it...the second half is selecting and retaining the best pups for hunting and breeding...the cream will rise to the top... |
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2014, 08:28:05 pm » |
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Reuben I agree with most of that. This is just my opinion but if you are culling a lot then you probly need to slow down on your breeding not you personally just in general.
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Reuben
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« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2014, 09:11:35 pm » |
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JP you are 100 percent right IMO...once the dogs are where there is not much improvement it is time to slow it down and enjoy what we have...otherwise we will get to where we need to bring in new blood which I believe it is best to stay away from that scenario is long as possible...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Judge peel
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« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2014, 09:27:53 pm » |
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Rueben I am bout where I want to be as a pack I can take any of my dogs out and feel like I have a good chance to find pigs. Some don't have as much bottom as I would like next breeding in a few yrs or so I will put some hound in there in my crosses and see where it goes but as for now I am good
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Reuben
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« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2014, 06:49:51 pm » |
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good deal JP...you are catching pigs...that is the proof right there...
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Training dogs is not about quantity, it's more about timing, the right situations, and proper guidance...After that it's up to the dog...
A hunting dog is born not made...
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Goose87
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« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 07:49:19 pm » |
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Rueben I agree once you get to a point that most of the litters are all uniform in appearance and ability then it's either time to slow way down on your breeding or add fresh blood from another established line. To me a help dog is a dog that doesn't have the ability to produce a hog on his own and is used only as a pack dog that is sent in to a dog already baying. Some people will feed a dog of this caliber but I personally don't have the money or time to be feeding it. I want every baydog I feed to be able to produce hogs on their own.
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Judge peel
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« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 08:00:52 pm » |
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Thanks Reuben I truly believe my success is do to a good well rounded pack. Most of the time a good pack will out preform a super star well that is my opinion dogs are like wolfs better the pack better the Alfa is
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Boss Hoggin Outlaw
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« Reply #39 on: December 19, 2014, 11:36:34 am » |
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Well I can tell you this much, don't ever take a mans word on a dog without trying it because a mans word these days sho ain't what it used to be... I had about a 3-4 yr old brindle cur gyp that was in my eyes one of the best help dogs you can have and she was a pretty good strike dog, and I got on this site and a few others trying to sell her and this was about 5 months ago. Well some ole boy from temple and another boy from Victoria wanted to trade a dog for mine and I said ok... So we met up and when we traded I told them, if this dog ain't what you say it is and it don't work out for me or viseversa I'm gonna let you know and I'm gonna want my dog back. Well you know how the rest goes... The dog wasn't worth pissin on and mine was worth somewhere between 500-700 give or take.... And of course I called and called and texted and no reply and I find this guy trying to sell my dog on another site for 1000 and just to shorten this I ended up gettin ahold of him and he denied everything. They are both a couple of sorry mother do iters in my eyes and I wish I knew their names cuz I damn sure would call them out. All I know is ones short and fat from temple and the other one is a Mexican feller from Victoria. Given the opportunity I'd whip their ass for all it's worth but oh well you learn from your mistakes... The moral of this story is what you put in is what you're gonna get. I didn't put the time and effort in to seeing what this dog was like and in return I got a dog that was honestly absolutely good for nothing. So watch who you deal with on here and sorry to ruin your post but I had to vent for a little while.
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He who kneels before God can stand before any man.
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